Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[Magenta]

Irrestible grace means forced regeneration.....means being born again by forced will of God.

Matt Slick (owner of CARM) has this to say of irresistible grace:

Irresistible grace is a doctrine known primarily within Reformed Theology (Calvinism) which states that the grace with which God saves an individual cannot be successfully resisted by the sinner when he becomes saved. This does not mean that unbelievers cannot generally resist the grace of God, for they surely do. It means that when it comes time for a person to become saved, the saving grace of God upon them cannot be successfully resisted. It is effectual because God's grace overcomes the rebellion of the unregenerate.

Within Reformed Theology irresistible grace is also associated with election and predestination. Election is God's choosing people to be saved, and predestination is his work of manifesting that salvation within them. It is in the preaching of the gospel that the effectual call of God upon the sinner is manifested and the sinner becomes saved. The sinner cannot and will not successfully resist the sovereign work of God to regenerate him when it is the moment of salvation that is wrought by God's power.

However, this grace is not a forceful violation of the will of the recipient. Grace, after all, is the unmerited favor of God upon individuals, but God works upon the person through conviction, the scriptures, and the preaching of the gospel that brings the person to salvation.

 

[jackrosie]

I suggest you conference with your mentor ....it seems you do not understand the dogma you heartily support.

Hahaha....you would say that....because you don’t understand the scripture we post.....you only understand your own scripture,that you keep presenting...

You either bypass or dismiss the rest of scripture...because it doesn’t fit right with what you believe plus you don’t understand it.....,haha.

 

[John146]

Hahaha....you would say that....because you don’t understand the scripture we post.....you only understand your own scripture,that you keep presenting...

You either bypass or dismiss the rest of scripture...because it doesn’t fit right with what you believe plus you don’t understand it.....,haha.

I've looked back on your posts, and you post very little Scripture. Most of the verses you post are just partial verses. So, to be clear, can you post clear Scripture that states that people get saved without hearing the word of God from Scripture? Without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ? Can you post Scripture that states how you were born again of the Spirit before you heard the word? Or, are you saying you are an exception? Thanks.

 

[EleventhHour]

Hahaha....you would say that....because you don’t understand the scripture we post.....you only understand your own scripture,that you keep presenting...

You either bypass or dismiss the rest of scripture...because it doesn’t fit right with what you believe plus you don’t understand it.....,haha.

Please feel free to exegete
Romans 8:7 in context of the whole chapter anytime.

 

[Magenta]

John 10:27-28

 

[EleventhHour]

I've looked back on your posts, and you post very little Scripture. Most of the verses you post are just partial verses. So, to be clear, can you post clear Scripture that states that people get saved without hearing the word of God from Scripture? Without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ? Can you post Scripture that states how you were born again of the Spirit before you heard the word? Or, are you saying you are an exception? Thanks.

That would be the correct assessment.
Agree one has to hear the word.

Irrestible grace, effectual calling is a false teaching...no matter how much they want to intectuallize it.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8:15-16

 

[jackrosie]

I've looked back on your posts, and you post very little Scripture. Most of the verses you post are just partial verses. So, to be clear, can you post clear Scripture that states that people get saved without hearing the word of God from Scripture? Without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ? Can you post Scripture that states how you were born again of the Spirit before you heard the word? Or, are you saying you are an exception? Thanks.

Hahaha....you show me scripture where it says...you must read a bible before one is saved?

I have posted plenty of scripture...so disagree with what you said.

God chose me he drew me....my saving was irresistible....you aren’t understanding,you only understand your own dogma...
No matter how much I have explained...you don’t understand.....so am not prepared to flog a dead horse anymore.

Others understand me...you don’t as a few others.

I have explained how I was saved countless times...scroll back and read......”slowly”

 

[John146]

Hahaha....you show me scripture where it says...you must read a bible before one is saved?

I have posted plenty of scripture...so disagree with what you said.

God chose me he drew me....my saving was irresistible....you aren’t understanding,you only understand your own dogma...
No matter how much I have explained...you don’t understand.....so am not prepared to flog a dead horse anymore.

Others understand me...you don’t as a few others.

Ephesians 1 clearly states the order of salvation.

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1. Hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation
2. Believe/trust the word of truth, the gospel of salvation
3. Sealed by the Holy Spirit

Also, see Romans 10. Hearing the gospel preached is a prerequisite to believing and being saved.

4 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[jackrosie]

Ephesians 1 clearly states the order of salvation.

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1. Hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation
2. Believe/trust the word of truth, the gospel of salvation
3. Sealed by the Holy Spirit

Also, see Romans 10. Hearing the gospel preached is a prerequisite to believing and being saved.

4 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Show me scripture that says,God cannot save me,because I have not read my bible before salvation....

God chose,drew and saved me.....no bible reading before salvation.....after salvation God leads me through scripture.

I am led by the Holy Spirit,I am not led by man on this forum.

 

[EleventhHour]

Show me scripture that says,God cannot save me,because I have not read my bible before salvation....

God chose,drew and saved me.....no bible reading before salvation.....after salvation God leads me through scripture.

The question is whether you knew the gospel?

 

[John146]

Show me scripture that says,God cannot save me,because I have not read my bible before salvation....

God chose,drew and saved me.....no bible reading before salvation.....after salvation God leads me through scripture.

I am led by the Holy Spirit,I am not led by man on this forum.

Ok, you did not read a bible before you got saved, but you had to have heard the preaching of the gospel before you believed and were saved. Feelings never trump what saith the Scriptures. Ever.

I posted the clear order of salvation, but you deny?

 

[jackrosie]

The question is whether you knew the gospel?

There is no question to answer.....God chose,drew me to him.....He Saved me,he witnessed to my Spirit that I am his child.....all scriptural....he spoke to my Spirit I heard.....his calling was irresistible.

 

[jackrosie]

Ok, you did not read a bible before you got saved, but you had to have heard the preaching of the gospel before you believed and were saved. Feelings never trump what saith the Scriptures. Ever.

I posted the clear order of salvation, but you deny?

That is the clear order of what “YOU” believe salvation to mean.

I have posted how I was saved....countless times......your scripture doesn’t line up with my saving.

 

[EleventhHour]

There is no question to answer.....God chose,drew me to him.....He Saved me,he witnessed to my Spirit that I am his child.....all scriptural....he spoke to my Spirit I heard.....his calling was irresistible.

So you admit you did not know the Gospel!!

Can you find a person in the new testament that was saved without being told the Gospel?

My bible states the apostles were sent out to preach the Good News of salvation in Jesus.

 

[fredoheaven]

I know exactly what Jesus is saying about being born again..

I have already posted about my saving Fred...please don’t put words into my mouth.....”Like........are you saying I need too”.

I can assure you I have not been disturbed by the teaching of man...again i don’t need to explain how I was saved to you.

You don’t believe in Calvin.

I believe a bit of Calvin....but not all....I am also not a Calvinist....why some think that,I have no idea....maybe because I believe some of what he teaches...

Sorry if it upsets....but can’t change it to make some of you guys happy.

Especially the fruit of the Spirit.....Calvin is spot on there.

No, I am not putting anything in your mouth, just wondering but anyway you believe in part to what calvin taught and that's it. Also, I am not upset but of course brace yourselves with what the scriptures says. Iron sharpen iron...but the focus is on what the scripture really is and that will be my intention if not it's others intention.

 

[Grandpa]

Since we are saved by grace through faith, faith is a very important element of salvation, and it cannot be said, therefore, that Jesus dying for all means everyone is saved, because, not being found in Christ at the end of this age, due to being devoid of faith, the lost shall perish, as Scripture affirms in a multitude of verses. I realize I am responding to an older post here, but I have been absent a couple of weeks and then some, and this is the page I landed on

That is exactly correct. Not being found in Christ and being devoid of faith causes the lost to perish.

But now, you would have people with no sin, because it has been atoned for, that are lost.

I don't believe that. I don't understand how anyone who has been to Christ can believe that. Before we came to Christ we were constantly sinning. And this sin hurt our "ability" to come before God. After coming to Christ we know our sins have been paid for and we can stand before God.

It is not possible to stand before God in a sinful state. It is because of sin that we must come to Christ.

If it has already been atoned for, and everyone can stand before God as Righteous men, then everyone is good to go. God will not cast the Righteous from His Presence.


I think people are really not understanding our Righteousness that we have in Christ and How and Why we have that Righteousness. Our Righteousness, that comes from Christ, does not belong to the unbeliever. It can't. Because like everything else we receive from God, we got it by Grace through Faith.

 

[John146]

That is the clear order of what “YOU” believe salvation to mean.

I have posted how I was saved....countless times......your scripture doesn’t line up with my saving.

What I believe? My "belief" comes from Scripture. Again, when your experience doesn't line up with Scripture, never trust your experience, go with Scripture. You are claiming that you are an exception to Scripture. Please reconsider.

 

[Grandpa]

Can you find a person in the new testament that was saved without being told the Gospel?

Paul.

 

[jackrosie]

So you admit you did not know the Gospel!!

Here you go again,trying to twist and turn what I say,stop trying to put words into my mouth.

I have told you countless times how God Saved me.....stop trying to trip me up,because you won’t.

You don’t understand my saving and you don’t need too,.....I do.....and God knows.....you seem obsessed with my saving.