The Judging Thread

[Blain]

I do not know why it showed lion in my responce above this forum seems to glitch sometimes

 

[Corban]

In John 20 verse 23 at the end.

Jesus said to the Apostles " sins you retain are retained."

He expects us to be able to see into the heart.

Well done. You address the core of the matter. When our Lord introduced the Church, He mentioned only two things:

1. Resurrection, or "the Gates of Hades" - for the Church is also to produce the Kingdom and the present body is not fit for the Kingdom (1st Cor.15:50-52)
2. Judgment within the Church. This is regulated in Matthew 18. If a brother offends the offended should seek to sort the matter out in private. If this has no effect, he/she is to bring witnesses in private. If this has no effect, the offended and the witnesses must tell it in an open Assembly. If the offender will not admit his/her offense his/her sins ARE RETAINED and they are to be treated like the unbeliever. Christ, Head of the Church, keeps a record of this in heaven. When He returns to earth to set up His Kingdom, He will apply the sentence further for the Millennial reign. This is seen in 1st Corinthians Chapter 6.

Again, only ACTIONS are judged within the Church by the Church. The incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians Chapter 5 cannot be excommunicated if he lusted in his heart - for nobody can see that. But he is charged and sentenced for what he actually did. Only God sees the heart (1st Sam.16:7; Lk.16:15).

 

[Blik]

Well done. You address the core of the matter. When our Lord introduced the Church, He mentioned only two things:

1. Resurrection, or "the Gates of Hades" - for the Church is also to produce the Kingdom and the present body is not fit for the Kingdom (1st Cor.15:50-52)
2. Judgment within the Church. This is regulated in Matthew 18. If a brother offends the offended should seek to sort the matter out in private. If this has no effect, he/she is to bring witnesses in private. If this has no effect, the offended and the witnesses must tell it in an open Assembly. If the offender will not admit his/her offense his/her sins ARE RETAINED and they are to be treated like the unbeliever. Christ, Head of the Church, keeps a record of this in heaven. When He returns to earth to set up His Kingdom, He will apply the sentence further for the Millennial reign. This is seen in 1st Corinthians Chapter 6.

Again, only ACTIONS are judged within the Church by the Church. The incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians Chapter 5 cannot be excommunicated if he lusted in his heart - for nobody can see that. But he is charged and sentenced for what he actually did. Only God sees the heart (1st Sam.16:7; Lk.16:15).

I think this sums the way God wants us to handle the judgment question. Actually, the church isn't judging people, they are judging the actions of people and that judgment is whether those actions fit into the actions we are to have as Christians.

As it applies to this site it means we can discuss scripture and judge the interpretations of scripture, we can judge the actions posters uphold, but we can not judge the posters and follow scripture.

 

[Lion222]

I think this sums the way God wants us to handle the judgment question. Actually, the church isn't judging people, they are judging the actions of people and that judgment is whether those actions fit into the actions we are to have as Christians.

As it applies to this site it means we can discuss scripture and judge the interpretations of scripture, we can judge the actions posters uphold, but we can not judge the posters and follow scripture.

The 411 on judging.

Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you. 11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the Law and judges it. And if you judge the Law, you are not a practitioner of the Law, but a judge of it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?… James 4:11

 

[Lion222]

Well done. You address the core of the matter. When our Lord introduced the Church, He mentioned only two things:

1. Resurrection, or "the Gates of Hades" - for the Church is also to produce the Kingdom and the present body is not fit for the Kingdom (1st Cor.15:50-52)
2. Judgment within the Church. This is regulated in Matthew 18. If a brother offends the offended should seek to sort the matter out in private. If this has no effect, he/she is to bring witnesses in private. If this has no effect, the offended and the witnesses must tell it in an open Assembly. If the offender will not admit his/her offense his/her sins ARE RETAINED and they are to be treated like the unbeliever. Christ, Head of the Church, keeps a record of this in heaven. When He returns to earth to set up His Kingdom, He will apply the sentence further for the Millennial reign. This is seen in 1st Corinthians Chapter 6.

Again, only ACTIONS are judged within the Church by the Church. The incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians Chapter 5 cannot be excommunicated if he lusted in his heart - for nobody can see that. But he is charged and sentenced for what he actually did. Only God sees the heart (1st Sam.16:7; Lk.16:15).

oops
agreeing to disagree

 

[Nehemiah6]

Again, only ACTIONS are judged within the Church by the Church.

Correct. But that should be within the church (small C) -- the local assembly -- by members of that church. The instructions in Scripture are for local churches. And the concept of denominations was not even in view. Every church was autonomous (until men began to change the NT pattern).

As to Christian forums, all we can do is examine the beliefs of posters. If they line up with Scripture, well and good. If not, they should be exposed as false with Scripture properly interpreted.

 

[Lion222]

Love does not retaliate and when recieving correction love does not claim to be judged they gladly receive it and learn from it.

I love the focuse on love.
But ...
How does love retaliate "respond" when receiving correction "judgment"?
Jesus is our example, He claimed to be judged and accused falsely... dishonored.
His response was to put those who judged him to open shame until they feared to speak against him anymore. He showed them for what they where, judged them by upholding what was true.

This is a major example for us.
Jesus did not come to judge...
But the very next words are
This is the judgement....

Jesus came to shine the light of God, the truth of God.
The judgement was in how it exposed people how they responded to it.

i think being without the intent to judge may be part of doing it right.
Seeking to shine in the dark and let God do as he will with it.

I think that is how love responds to being judged

 

[Blain]

I love the focuse on love.
But ...
How does love retaliate "respond" when receiving correction "judgment"?
Jesus is our example, He claimed to be judged and accused falsely... dishonored.
His response was to put those who judged him to open shame until they feared to speak against him anymore. He showed them for what they where, judged them by upholding what was true.

This is a major example for us.
Jesus did not come to judge...
But the very next words are
This is the judgement....

Jesus came to shine the light of God, the truth of God.
The judgement was in how it exposed people how they responded to it.

i think being without the intent to judge may be part of doing it right.
Seeking to shine in the dark and let God do as he will with it.

I think that is how love responds to being judged

I think that Jesus did make a perfect example and yes I agree but perhaps retaliate is not the best word to describe it.

 

[Jackson123]

Correct. But that should be within the church (small C) -- the local assembly -- by members of that church. The instructions in Scripture are for local churches. And the concept of denominations was not even in view. Every church was autonomous (until men began to change the NT pattern).

As to Christian forums, all we can do is examine the beliefs of posters. If they line up with Scripture, well and good. If not, they should be exposed as false with Scripture properly interpreted.

So to judge the teaching is ok

 

[Nehemiah6]

So to judge the teaching is ok

Absolutely. See the letters to the seven churches in Revelation.

PROVE ALL THINGS. HOLD FAST THAT WHICH IS GOOD (1 Thess 5:21).

 

[Benadam]

agree.
But it is the sin in our own hearts we see in others.

Thats only sin we deny is there. Sin brought to light is our strength. The more one plumbes the depths of their own heart the more they know all hearts. The Lord may place a cross in our path and if embraced the suffering reveals Jesus to us which in turn reveals us to our self.

The closer one is to Christ the more ones hidden sins come to light. The more one knows their own heart the more they know the heart of others.

There are those who have light inside where there used to be dark. When in the presence of others in which that darkness hides, their hidden sins will awaken. Sometimes behaviours peculiar to such experiences result.

If there were no darkness in you the darkness in others would be exposed.

As your heart sheds darkness you will more and more bring to light the unconscious sin of others.

1 Cor 13

24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25 [g]And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

 

[Lion222]

I think that Jesus did make a perfect example and yes I agree but perhaps retaliate is not the best word to describe it.

Oh I was just using your words.
Using them against a brother and using them against Jesus, same same right?

 

[Blain]

Oh I was just using your words.
Using them against a brother and using them against Jesus, same same right?

Oh I see that was my bad I have been having trouble sleeping lately so sometimes my mind gets a bit foggy