Chosen by God - A study in Election

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throughfaith said:
Saved before believing the Gospel ?Here it is folks . A denial of the necessary Work on the cross and subsequent resurrection .
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To deny that all people were saved before the foundation of the world is blasphemy. However it just so happens that people are born after the foundation of the world and subsequently God gives them the gift of belief, the gift of faith, the gift of perseverance, the gift of good works.

The undeniable fact of believers being foreordained before the foundation of the world is boilerplate. Paul (and other NT writers) is crystal-clear on this matter, it is beyond refutation.
 
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cv5 said:
Again I think you have run a skew of the import of those passages.
The key here is: by what mechanism God decided to save souls. God decided to use belief i.e. faith, not works, lest any man should boast.

You are twisting all of this around to make it sound is if our "work" of "belief" is pleasing God. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Now your back on Philosophy. From the scriptures, its painfully obvious what pleases God . And what pleases God is to save those that believe . Its not difficult . The Gospel is simple , simple ,simple . Believe and be saved .
 
cv5 said:
To deny that all people were saved before the foundation of the world is blasphemy. However it just so happens that people are born after the foundation of the world and subsequently God gives them the gift of belief, the gift of faith, the gift of perseverance, the gift of good works.

The undeniable fact of believers being foreordained before the foundation of the world is boilerplate. Paul (and other NT writers) is crystal-clear on this matter, it is beyond refutation.
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I think you forgot about "irresistible grace"

Without that none of what you stated above hold's together.
 
cv5 said:
To deny that all people were saved before the foundation of the world is blasphemy. However it just so happens that people are born after the foundation of the world and subsequently God gives them the gift of belief, the gift of faith, the gift of
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Your posts are like a breath of fresh air.......I’ve waited a long time for this.....Praise God!!


Amen!.......Amen!,.......Amen!!.
 
Lot's of opinions but little study.

Calvinism saves nobody. God by grace saves all who believe into Christ. Nobody get saved unless they are drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit draws all men to Christ. Many turn from Christ because they love their sin more than life.

John 3 and John 16 provide a lot of learning on the subject if you have ears to hear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
throughfaith said:
Now your back on Philosophy. From the scriptures, its painfully obvious what pleases God . And what pleases God is to save those that believe . Its not difficult . The Gospel is simple , simple ,simple . Believe and be saved .
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Believe and be saved is absolutely correct. But you had better figure out a way to square believing from eternity past before you were born into that equation.
 
cv5 said:
You can't take one scripture out of context please read Ephesians chapter 2 in its entirety.
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ok look at verse 11 and tell me if you were saved and in Christ before you existed ?
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ , being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope ,without God in the world:
 
notuptome said:
Lot's of opinions but little study.

Calvinism saves nobody. God by grace saves all who believe into Christ. Nobody get saved unless they are drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit draws all men to Christ. Many turn from Christ because they love their sin more than life.

John 3 and John 16 provide a lot of learning on the subject if you have ears to hear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Who ever the Father gives to Jesus...no one can take them from him...no one!!......
 
notuptome said:
Lot's of opinions but little study.

Calvinism saves nobody. God by grace saves all who believe into Christ. Nobody get saved unless they are drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit draws all men to Christ. Many turn from Christ because they love their sin more than life.

John 3 and John 16 provide a lot of learning on the subject if you have ears to hear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I agree with what you say. The question at hand is: when?
Before the foundation of the world as the Bible clearly states, or at such a time as the sinner repents?
 
cv5 said:
Believe and be saved is absolutely correct. But you had better figure out a way to square believing from eternity past before you were born into that equation.
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I don't need to . Thats your philosophy ( Actually Augustines) imposed onto the text ,where no such tension exists . "Believing from eternity past before you were born " ???
 
throughfaith said:
Really? Hebrews 11
5¶By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
It PLEASES GOD . it may not please Calvinists, But the bible is about what pleases God not Cavinists and reformed theologians that calvinists are parroting.
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Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that it is possible to please God be by being faithful.
But I think that you are completely askew regarding your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 21.
That passage speaks nothing to pleasing God by any acts or works of men. That passage is simply speaking to God's pleasure in what He decided to use as the mechanism for salvation in His overarching plan. Basically it's saying that God is pleased with Himself in this matter.
 
throughfaith said:
I don't need to . Thats your philosophy ( Actually Augustines) imposed onto the text ,where no such tension exists . "Believing from eternity past before you were born " ???
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Do you want me to quote Scripture to prove that salvation for men is foreordained from eternity past before they were born? Really? Believe me that's going to take up many pages.
 
cv5 said:
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that it is possible to please God be by being faithful.
But I think that you are completely askew regarding your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 21.
That passage speaks nothing to pleasing God by any acts or works of men. That passage is simply speaking to God's pleasure in what He decided to use as the mechanism for salvation in His overarching plan. Basically it's saying that God is pleased with Himself in this matter.
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Why am I reading that it pleases God to save those that believe in 1cor and Hebrews 11 ? Because that's what it says maybe ? it does not say of course that it pleases God to save those that work for it . That goes without saying .
 
cv5 said:
Do you want me to quote Scripture to prove that salvation for men is foreordained from eternity past before they were born? Really? Believe me that's going to take up many pages.
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Please before you reel of a bunch of individual verses , could you at least provide the context within the passages as to why your interpretating the verses that way ? Simply quoting the verse doesn't explain the verse .
 
throughfaith said:
where in this verse does it say ' election " has anything to do with Salvation ( in the sense of ' chosen to be saved ) ?
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It says it in the very verse I showed you. Verse 11: v11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I will put it all here for you again:

2 Peter 1v10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
Grandpa said:
So, God has no idea what He is doing until men that He has created allow Him to save them?

By manufacturing some belief inside them that they have no ability or power to create in themselves?



Seems like a dumb philosophy to me. It would be a better philosophy to just allow God to be God. All knowing. All powerful.

And then you could see yourself as you truly are. The receiver of the Gifts that God gives. Not the one that allows God to do what He wills.
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If God is pleased to give a person a gift if they believe in Him . Whats your issue . Especially as that's exactly what God has said in His word.
 
cv5 said:
Did God save you by grace, or did you save yourself by works i.e. your choice?
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It’s not an either/or answer but rather both. God saved me by grace when I heard of Jesus and believed.

When you hear something you make a decision as to whether or not to believe it. That’s choice. And God gets all the glory.
 
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Chris1975 said:
It says it in the very verse I showed you. Verse 11: v11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I will put it all here for you again:

2 Peter 1v10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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Just simply saying ' Election ' does nothing. Words have meaning . And the meaning of ELECTION is to service
calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
1¶Behold my servant whom I uphold; mine elect . in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

15¶But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a CHOSEN vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
 
Duskey said:
It’s not an either/or answer but rather both. God saved me by grace when I heard of Jesus and believed.

When you hear something you make a decision as to whether or not to believe it. That’s choice. And God gets all the glory.
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Amen.........................God foreknew but did not predestine by some imaginary irresistible grace.
 
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