The Pentecostal and Charasmatic issue

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Silverwings

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2016
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#41
I am Pentecostal and no different from any other spirit filled believer. However there is a difference in Pentecostals, some are legalistic, and you can usually tell them by the way the women all wear long dresses and bun hair dos, as from my picture you can see that I do not. We also do not support the Apostles creed as do others, we do not believe in the Holy Catholic Church, sorry if i offend someone that does. Many times people being prayed for do fall under the power of the spirit, however i have never questioned this, to me it is no different from what happened to Paul on the Damascus road, we have a lady pastor that just celebrated her 50th year in the ministry, and for those who do not approve of that either, it takes a strong woman full of the Lord to be able to stand that long, in a place that is traditionally for men only. Imagine what it was like 50 years ago when she started at the age of 19? Her husband supported her and built the church for her, he has since then passed, but what he built stands tall and secure.
 

Silverwings

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2016
1,368
500
83
#42
Maybe you do not support laughing in the spirit either, but I assure you if you ever expereience it you will come away refreshed, and full of the spirit, and what about singing in the spirit, I really wish the spirit would move on me that way, I have only heard it once in my life, and it was by the pastor (again a woman) in the Vineyard Workers Church, it was without a doubt the most beautiful song that I have ever heard, when the service was over I asked her what the name of the song was and she replied, it did not have a name, it came as the spirit willed. I will never forget it. I do not limit the Spirit in what he is able to do, I am just privileged to be a part of it.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#43
I am Pentecostal and no different from any other spirit filled believer. However there is a difference in Pentecostals, some are legalistic, and you can usually tell them by the way the women all wear long dresses and bun hair dos, as from my picture you can see that I do not. We also do not support the Apostles creed as do others, we do not believe in the Holy Catholic Church, sorry if i offend someone that does. Many times people being prayed for do fall under the power of the spirit, however i have never questioned this, to me it is no different from what happened to Paul on the Damascus road, we have a lady pastor that just celebrated her 50th year in the ministry, and for those who do not approve of that either, it takes a strong woman full of the Lord to be able to stand that long, in a place that is traditionally for men only. Imagine what it was like 50 years ago when she started at the age of 19? Her husband supported her and built the church for her, he has since then passed, but what he built stands tall and secure.

I would offer. The major difference is in the oral tradition called a "sign gifts". . .It is needed to replace or add to the spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts remain unseen. . . This is when and if we walk by faith the unseen law.

If we walk by sight, faith disappears.

Jesus taught that lesson in John 6 . If he would disappear out of sight would the disciples believe the word of God or would they look to the flesh of another .

It as a hard saying offended the disciples that were trusting in the works of the flesh the temporal seen. They walked away to show they had no faith that comes from hearing and believing the word of God. It was a offensive saying .They stopped up their ears in unbelief and walked away looking for another leader. In whom there own oral traditions became a way to wonder after as lying signs

(1) Now you see him.. (2) Now you don't.

(1) Now you believe him.(2) Now you do not.

Christian faith. . faith from within. .

(1) Now you see him putting your trust in the unseen power of the father .(2) Now you do not see him put your trust in the unseen father,.

No sign gifts .Spiritual unseen yes.

John6:59-66 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#44
Maybe you do not support laughing in the spirit either, but I assure you if you ever expereience it you will come away refreshed, and full of the spirit, and what about singing in the spirit, I really wish the spirit would move on me that way, I have only heard it once in my life, and it was by the pastor (again a woman) in the Vineyard Workers Church, it was without a doubt the most beautiful song that I have ever heard, when the service was over I asked her what the name of the song was and she replied, it did not have a name, it came as the spirit willed. I will never forget it. I do not limit the Spirit in what he is able to do, I am just privileged to be a part of it.
Nothing wrong with making music in one heart to celebrate the joy of the gospel

Experience is not the validator of unseen spiritual truth. If it was then the father would not gave His propjet apostle Jesus the words again and again three times "as it is written" the power of the rebuke of the father it caused the spirit of lies to flee .Strike three.(Mathew 4)

We walk by the unseen will of the father .Just as did the Son of man .He did not do the will of the flesh a self edifying work of self righteousness. But gave glory to the unseen father. Who empowered him to do the will.

He remained without sin being strengthened by the daily bread of the father .
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#45
I just wanted to know the difference between the two denominations and ended up confused and my question unanswered
Well my brother Blain, it is a good question.

Pentecostal in this context is not a denomination, neither is Charismatic or Third Wave. In this context we are talking about a theological view or interpretation of scriptures concerning the Holy Spirit, the definition of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the church today.

One might even call them movements, in the definitions that were given by the source you posted. At least the definition that was given about the Charismatics and Third Wave. Your source sounded like a reformist trying to explain what pentecostals and charismatics believe, and it is always best to get the definition from the pentecostal and charismatic instead.

There are denominations that use the word Pentecostal in their official name and there are denominations that are pentecostal in their theology but do not use the name pentecostal in their name. So for example the United Pentecostal Church of God In Christ is a denomination that teaches things that most other pentecostal denominations like the Assemblies of God would disagree with. UPC is known for telling people they have to speak in tongues to be saved and most pentecostals do not believe that. The UPC is considered a cult to other pentecostals and because of denominations that use the word Pentecostal in their names but have given pentecostals such a bad reputation (i.e. snake handlers, Oneness doctrine, etc) many today do not want to be called pentecostal so as not to be confused with those extreme groups that use Pentecostal in their denominational church name.

Traditional pentecostalism from a theological view was simply declaring that you believe that what happened on the day of Pentecost started a pattern that is repeated in the book of Acts namely a subsequent experience to regeneration and for the purpose of being empowered by the Spirit to fulfill the great commission. That the gift of speaking in tongues is the scriptural pattern that is repeated and especially with statements like the one in Acts 10: 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues...

Charismatics in practice are really just people who believe the same thing, that the gifts of the Holy Spirit (charisma) are for today and they were given to the church for the edifying of the body of Christ and did not cease at the writing of Revelation.

Charismatic movement seemed to be what your source was following which was that there was a movement that swept both Catholic and evangelic denominations during the 70s where many received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues and tried to bring it into their denominations, some of these local churches continued to allow these gifts to be expressed while remaining in their non pentecostal denominations. And yet most of these people also testified to speaking in tongues so it is really a mute point about their not agreeing that speaking in tongues was the initial evidence since they were speaking in tongues while arguing about it.

Today there is really little if any difference between a Pentecostal theology and a Charismatic Theology. I doubt you can find anyone who can point out any difference between a nondenominational church that calls itself Charismatic and a typical Assembly of God chruch that uses both words, pentecostal or charismatic interchangably to say the same thing.
That is the theology that the gifts of the Holy Spirit including, and usually starting with the gift of tongues, is available for every believer today who asks for it.

I believe the word Charismatic has taken over the use of the word Pentecostal for most people because they do not want to have to explain the difference between the theology pentecostal and those other embarrasing denominations (i.e snake handlers) who use the name Pentecostal. So they are abandoning the word for something less confusing. Charismatic works just as well.

Now for the Third Wave, this is a movement that included the Vineyard Churches (John Wimber) and the teachings of Fuller Theologian Peter Wagner, I guess you could call it a revival or extension of the Charismatic movement. It is not really anything anyone claims to be. No one really says. "I'm a Third Waver" it is more of a description of a movement. Not everything that has swept the charismatic churches can be included as belonging to a THIRD WAVE, that is arbitrary labeling.

Maybe the new label is Continuationists? Not that, that is a new term but it is getting new traction as people are wanting to express that they are not a cessationists but they are not one of those snake handlers either.

I still use the word pentecostal because I like to start with Acts 2 and explain why I use that word, and go through all the scriptures on the subject when I teach it and it is the scriptures that give faith for people to believe and receive.

I am pentecostal in my theology, I am also charismatic in my theology. I am also a Continuationists in my theology. All are saying the same thing.

I am not a Third Waver, because that just sounds weird :) and no one knows exactly what it means. LOL I certainly do not agree with Kingdom Now Dominion theology, Christian demon deliverance (pigs in the parlor book) or Strategic Spiritual Warfare and naming of chief city demons and prayer walks that bind demons and all the complicated things that go along with what Peter Wagner was teaching in this regard, though I don't discount everything Peter Wagner taught.