Walking In Spirit or Flesh.

[throughfaith]

The English here is very plain to see, read and understand. You cannot harmonise it because it does not conform to your doctrine. You do not want to uproot the wrong foundations that you have been building on. Therefore the only alternative is to twist the scripture. Why anybody would want to do that this side of the grave or rapture is beyond comprehension.

I will post the scripture again. Plain for all to see.

Romans 8v13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The Spirit is only given to those who have believed in Jesus Christ, and no other. And this self-same scripture above says that you are to by the Holy Spirit put to death the misdeeds of your body you so that you will LIVE (SALVATION). So you are not ultimately saved YET. You are only justified. Salvation happens at the end.

Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified (past tense) by His blood, we shall be saved (future) from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled (past tense) to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (future) by His life.

So are you saying that all a person has to do is

The English here is very plain to see, read and understand. You cannot harmonise it because it does not conform to your doctrine. You do not want to uproot the wrong foundations that you have been building on. Therefore the only alternative is to twist the scripture. Why anybody would want to do that this side of the grave or rapture is beyond comprehension.

I will post the scripture again. Plain for all to see.

Romans 8v13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The Spirit is only given to those who have believed in Jesus Christ, and no other. And this self-same scripture above says that you are to by the Holy Spirit put to death the misdeeds of your body you so that you will LIVE (SALVATION). So you are not ultimately saved YET. You are only justified. Salvation happens at the end.

Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified (past tense) by His blood, we shall be saved (future) from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled (past tense) to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (future) by His life.

keep reading .
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31¶What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37¶Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Notice it says neither life nor death , things present or things to come .

 

[throughfaith]

The English here is very plain to see, read and understand. You cannot harmonise it because it does not conform to your doctrine. You do not want to uproot the wrong foundations that you have been building on. Therefore the only alternative is to twist the scripture. Why anybody would want to do that this side of the grave or rapture is beyond comprehension.

I will post the scripture again. Plain for all to see.

Romans 8v13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The Spirit is only given to those who have believed in Jesus Christ, and no other. And this self-same scripture above says that you are to by the Holy Spirit put to death the misdeeds of your body you so that you will LIVE (SALVATION). So you are not ultimately saved YET. You are only justified. Salvation happens at the end.

Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified (past tense) by His blood, we shall be saved (future) from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled (past tense) to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (future) by His life.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
After we believe and sealed by the Holy Spirit until we mess up ..no until when? the day of redemption. What's that ? glad you asked . look above. Its what we are predestined to after we are sealed by the Holy Spirit . Not sure ? Check ephesians 1.13 . 4.30 .
Check what we are waiting for in Rom 8.23 . Why are we hoping and waiting for glorification if its not guaranteed? or certain ? why would there be groaning within ourselves ?
See your reading ' sealed by the Holy Spirit , until we walk in the flesh. But what does it say ?
yes I'm saved now . From what ? the penalty of sin . A believer is waiting for the Adoption when He will receive ' glorification ' which the Holy Spirit is the ' guarantee till then . Your introducing the small print which is adding to the bible .

 

[throughfaith]

The English here is very plain to see, read and understand. You cannot harmonise it because it does not conform to your doctrine. You do not want to uproot the wrong foundations that you have been building on. Therefore the only alternative is to twist the scripture. Why anybody would want to do that this side of the grave or rapture is beyond comprehension.

I will post the scripture again. Plain for all to see.

Romans 8v13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The Spirit is only given to those who have believed in Jesus Christ, and no other. And this self-same scripture above says that you are to by the Holy Spirit put to death the misdeeds of your body you so that you will LIVE (SALVATION). So you are not ultimately saved YET. You are only justified. Salvation happens at the end.

Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified (past tense) by His blood, we shall be saved (future) from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled (past tense) to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (future) by His life.

Context .
1¶Therefore BEING JUSTIFIED by faith, we HAVE PEACE ( PAST TENSE , NOT CEASE FIRE ) with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein WE STAND , and REJOICE in hope of the GLORY of God.
3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is GIVEN UNTO US
6¶For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. EVERY ONE , THE WHOLE WORLD
7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. EVERYONE ,THE WHOLE WORLD
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, EVERYONE ,THE WHOLE WORLD much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. DEATH ,BURIAL AND RESURRECTION .
2 cor 5
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; EVERYONE , THE WHOLE WORLD and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[throughfaith]

Therefore we should take heed/notice/adhere to the statement following. You are to put to death the misdeeds of the body. In essence obedience to God is of paramount importance. You do not get a free pass. You now have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. You are no longer slaves to your former nature. You have the freewill choice now to obey or disobey. And since sin is no longer your master, you no longer need to live therein. You're welcome.

The bottom line is this . if your saying that we are not saved yet ; and if your saying we have to walk ' a certain way ' . Then this is flat out works salvation. Are you saying Justification is by grace through Faith but is only conditional?

 

[John146]

Psalm 95:7

Know that the Lord is God.It is He who made us,and we are His;we are His people,and sheep of his pasture.

That scripture speaks “to me”....yes me!...in 2020..... I think you and I are on a different page to what we believe....which is fine.

Actually it was to the nation of Israel. The body of Christ did not begin until after the resurrection.

 

[John146]

The bottom line is this . if your saying that we are not saved yet ; and if your saying we have to walk ' a certain way ' . Then this is flat out works salvation. Are you saying Justification is by grace through Faith but is only conditional?

Yes, a believer can walk after the flesh, however, a believer is not in the flesh. A believer has been circumcised from the flesh.

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[Chris1975]

The bottom line is this . if your saying that we are not saved yet ; and if your saying we have to walk ' a certain way ' . Then this is flat out works salvation. Are you saying Justification is by grace through Faith but is only conditional?

2 Timothy 2
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

Mic Drop.

 

[Chris1975]

The bottom line is this . if your saying that we are not saved yet ; and if your saying we have to walk ' a certain way ' . Then this is flat out works salvation. Are you saying Justification is by grace through Faith but is only conditional?

Galatians 5
24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Another mic 🎤 drop

 

[Chris1975]

The bottom line is this . if your saying that we are not saved yet ; and if your saying we have to walk ' a certain way ' . Then this is flat out works salvation. Are you saying Justification is by grace through Faith but is only conditional?

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

 

[throughfaith]

2 Timothy 2
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

Mic Drop.

Yes a verse . What are you saying about the verse . So if you could pick your mic back up please .

 

[Chris1975]

The bottom line is this . if your saying that we are not saved yet ; and if your saying we have to walk ' a certain way ' . Then this is flat out works salvation. Are you saying Justification is by grace through Faith but is only conditional?

John 14
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

- if you think you don't have to keep the words of Jesus, you do not love Jesus. Nobody can enter heaven without loving Jesus.

 

[throughfaith]

Galatians 5
24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Another mic 🎤 drop

And again? Erm this verse does not help your position at all . We have crucified the flesh ( past tense ) and we live in the Spirit . This is not something we did or do . This is a reality of a believer.

 

[throughfaith]

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Died to sin . which cross references ' have crucified the flesh . Thank you. My has been all along. We should live the reality we ' are ' . How do we do that ? A believer believes this . He ' reckons himself to the reality of his eternal security .We ARE dead to sin . if we are Saved .

 

[Gregoryp]

My sheep listen to my voice,John I believe in scripture.

Do you not listen to the voice or hear God speaking?

I certainly do....we have a personal relationship with him.

Yes , I certainly do. Its like he is right here in my household actually.

 

[Chris1975]

Died to sin . which cross references ' have crucified the flesh . Thank you. My has been all along. We should live the reality we ' are ' . How do we do that ? A believer believes this . He ' reckons himself to the reality of his eternal security .We ARE dead to sin . if we are Saved .

Then if you are, you won't be committing them. If you are continuing to commit them, without repentance, then you havent died to sin. Then your faith of "consider yourself dead to sin" is merely lip service.

 

[throughfaith]

Then if you are, you won't be committing them. If you are continuing to commit them, without repentance, then you havent died to sin. Then your faith of "consider yourself dead to sin" is merely lip service.

To reckon yourself dead is to understand a spiritual reality that actually took place . You cannot ' Reckon ' yourself anything if its not a reality. Christianity is not hindu mystical ' mind over matter '
Rom 6 ( And no this isn't about water baptism , for those in the Lords navy )
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5¶For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12¶Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Notice the reality and notice what we should do and be in light of the reality . position v condition. Your doing the opposite . Your saying the reality is attained by the doing ( works salvation ) Paul is telling a believer to live as he really ' is ' . Saved , sealed, Justified , sanctified , dead to sin , no more condemnation, Alive to God , No longer in Adam . You think this is antinominism and lawlessness . When its the only way to live holy and the only way to grow and produce fruit .Are you dead to sin ? if no then you have not been baptised by the Holy Spirit into Christ .its not something you do . its something to believe thats happened to you if you are in Christ.

 

[throughfaith]

John 14
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

- if you think you don't have to keep the words of Jesus, you do not love Jesus. Nobody can enter heaven without loving Jesus.

So a person doesn't need to be in Christ , or sealed by the Holy Spirit , be born again ? Flesh and blood cannot enter my friend ,no matter how much they say they love Jesus and do stuff . Without Glorification no one will have a home with him. all those who are justified will be glorified.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

To reckon yourself dead is to understand a spiritual reality that actually took place . You cannot ' Reckon ' yourself anything if its not a reality. Christianity is not hindu mystical ' mind over matter '
Rom 6 [...]

Notice the reality and notice what we should do and be in light of the reality . position v condition. Your doing the opposite . Your saying the reality is attained by the doing ( works salvation ) Paul is telling a believer to live as he really ' is ' . Saved , sealed, Justified , sanctified , dead to sin , no more condemnation, Alive to God , No longer in Adam . You think this is antinominism and lawlessness . When its the only way to live holy and the only way to grow and produce fruit .Are you dead to sin ? if no then you have not been baptised by the Holy Spirit into Christ .its not something you do . its something to believe thats happened to you if you are in Christ.

Agreed.

 

[Chris1975]

So a person doesn't need to be in Christ , or sealed by the Holy Spirit , be born again ? Flesh and blood cannot enter my friend ,no matter how much they say they love Jesus and do stuff .

Setting up a strawman I see?

Jesus' words are plain. If you love Him, you will obey Him. If you do not ACTUALLY OBEY HIM (ongoing), you do not love Him. You will not inherit eternal life. No matter what word twisting you may employ. Those who love Him ALSO believe in Him. And those who believe in Him believe in His Words. And Obey them (Demons believe but do not willingly obey). Thats how we know who the children of God are and who are the children of the Devil. Those who obey God are the children of God.

Jesus confirms this in the gospel of John Ch 8.

 

[Chris1975]

So a person doesn't need to be in Christ , or sealed by the Holy Spirit , be born again ? Flesh and blood cannot enter my friend ,no matter how much they say they love Jesus and do stuff . Without Glorification no one will have a home with him. all those who are justified will be glorified.

John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.