The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

PlainWord · Aug 20, 2020

Actually it was Christ who declared it right before He ascended back to heaven.

Mat 28: 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Appears to me Christ already had authority over everything back then. So, what do you expect to change or perhaps He was sitting on this authority doing nothing with it the past 1,990 years???

Ahwatukee · Aug 20, 2020

Phoneman-777 said:

Good day, Phoneman,

Whether God was going to renovate this current earth or create a brand new earth (making something from nothing) was always a question of mine. However, after many years of studying this, I believe that God is going to create a brand spanking new heaven and earth. Consider the following scriptures:

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"Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them."

According to the scripture above, at the on-set of the great white throne judgment, this current heaven and Earth flee from God's presence. Fleeing from His presence would not infer a refurbishing of this current heaven and earth. It further states that no place will be found for them. How can this current heaven and earth be renovated if they are said to flee from God's presence?

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"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more."

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’ and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

===============================================================

In Revelation 21:1, it states that this current heaven and earth pass away. Likewise, in verse 4 it states that crying, death, mourning and pain will pass away, meaning that they will no longer exist. Both scriptures use the verb ' ἀπέρχομαι/aperchomai' translated as 'passed away.' Therefore, since we know that passed away regarding crying, pain, mourning and death means that they will no longer exist, then heaven and earth passing away would also mean that this present heaven and earth will cease to exist. When you couple that with this current heaven and earth fleeing from God's presence, this would infer a completely new heaven and earth opposed to a renovation of this current heaven and earth.

In addition, it would not seem to be in God's nature to renovate this current earth, but to start afresh with a completely brand spanking new earth and not a renovation of the current one.

Nehemiah6 · Aug 20, 2020

PlainWord said:

That is a FAR CRY from the Millennium being established on earth at that time.

Evidently you do not care to see the sequence of events stated by Christ in the Olivet Discourse (Mattew 24) and in Matthew 25. They must be fulfilled in a particular order before the Millennium can be established.

The Millennium cannot be established until:

(1) the Tribulation and Great Tribulation have run their courses,

(2) the cataclysmic cosmic events in Matthew 24:29 have run their course,

(3) the Second Coming of Christ has taken place,

(4) the battle of Armageddon has been settled,

(5) Satan has been chained in the bottomless pit, and

(6) the Tribulation saints have been resurrected in order to live and reign with Christ.

All of this is in the future, and the solid proof that it is in the future is that Matthew 24:29 has not been fulfilled, otherwise the heavenly bodies would not be where they are right now:

THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
[1] shall the sun be darkened,
[2] and the moon shall not give her light,
[3] and the stars shall fall from heaven,
[4] and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This corresponds to the events of the 6th Seal in Revelation 6:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Phoneman-777 · Aug 20, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

I want to be clear that NO ONE PROPHESIED anything about Jesus coming in 1844. No one at all. It was an interpretive error - no one was prophesying anything.

In 1755, there was a massive, Earth shaking earthquake in Lisbon. Later, in 1780, there was an inexplicable Dark Day that occurred, followed by that night an inexplicable blood red moon. Finally, in 1833, there was an inexplicable meteor shower in which all the meteors seemed to be emanating from ONE SPOT IN THE SKY, which is impossible. These events, especially the meteor shower, led Christians all over the world to intensely study the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation - known as the Great Religious Awakening - and the 2,300 Days prophecy was discovered. "Unto 2,300 Days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

Christians, NOT PROPHETS, mistook the "sanctuary" to mean the Earth, and that in 2,300 years (day/year principle of prophecy) from the "going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem" which was in 457 B.C. by King Artaxerxes, the Lord Jesus was going to cleanse the Earth with the fire of His Second Coming. Of course, they were wrong. So what? They got the right date, just the wrong event. They didn't understand that the "sanctuary" spoken of by Daniel was the HEAVENLY SANCTUARY and it had to do with the ministry of our High Priest Jesus, just as the Earthly high priest cleansed the Earthly sanctuary. That is why they thought Jesus would come in 1844, NOT DUE TO FALSE PROPHESYING.

Phoneman-777 · Aug 21, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

Scripture in Jeremiah 4 and 25 plainly states that your interpretation is false:

4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.
4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
4:25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.
4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken [it], I have purposed [it], and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

25:31 A noise shall come [even] to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them [that are] wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
25:32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

BTW, are not the saints going to go forth and trample the ashes of the wicked? Yes, we will.

Truth7t7 · Aug 21, 2020

Phoneman-777 said:

Your suggesting that Jeremiah 4:27 (Yet Will I Not Make A Full End) as referring to the earth and the second coming?

Jeremiah was prophesying of the coming Judgement to Jerusalem from invading armies, and how the Lord wasn't going to make a full end of (Jerusalem)

Keep searching, you ain't gonna find this earth surviving the Lord (Dissolving) it by his fire seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13

(I Will Not Make A Full End With You) Jerusalem!

Jeremiah 5:14-18
14 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
16 Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all mighty men.
17 And they shall eat up thine harvest, and thy bread, which thy sons and thy daughters should eat: they shall eat up thy flocks and thine herds: they shall eat up thy vines and thy fig trees: they shall impoverish thy fenced cities, wherein thou trustedst, with the sword.
18 Nevertheless in those days, saith the Lord, I will not make a full end with you.

Absolutely · Aug 21, 2020

Phoneman-777 said:

You keep repeating yourself. Tell us WHY the SDA teaching of an I J is false. I don't just tell people the Papacy is evil and presents false doctrines...I explain WHY those doctrines are false, just like I explain why the lie of Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism is false. One such explanation is that when Jesus comes as a thief in the night, 2 Peter 3:10 KJV says the Earth is not going to sustain life for another 7 minutes, let alone "7 years of tribulation".

You are sda?

garee · Aug 21, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

The full end is Zion, the bride of Christ called Christians (residents of the city of Chris) She named after her founder and Husband Christ. The heavenly Jerusalem.

The new name the father called the bride in Acts . Previously called her Israel as in all Israel are not members, the born again bride.

The outward Jew according to his corrupted flesh when the reformation came did not know where to turn or what to believe. When the bride was renamed . They hated the name God named her and have made the beautiful name of the city into a derogatory word . The new name was a more befitting name it represents all the nations. . . making the inward Jew and Gentile one bride.

We simply do not know God who is not made up of the rudiments (molecules and atoms/ DNA) of this whole corrupted creation to include the dust . Jesus said of His own flesh it profits for zero.

It as it is written would seem to dispel the oral tradition of men .

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

New heavens and earth dwelling place. Two beginnings in Genesis. One seen the corrupted , the other hid until the last day .

Not rebuilt, recondition as a Phoenix coming from ashes. But consumed up in smoke.

Phoneman-777 · Aug 21, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

OK, it seems I will have to spell it out for you...

1. You DO NOT condemn Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Thomas, or James for being wrong about the First Coming of Jesus and that it would lead Him to the Cross even though He told them plainly it would, nor do you condemn them for their great disappointment and abandonment of Him that continued for a time even until after He had already risen from the dead -- Christians who held the Word made flesh in their arms non-stop for 3 1/2 years while He walked with them, talked with them, and taught them personally.

2. You DO condemn early Advent Christians like Miller for being wrong in their belief about Jesus' Second Coming and their great disappointment when He did not arrive in 1844 - Christians who could only hold in their hands the written Word on paper, but not the Word made flesh.

Do you not see the glaring hypocrisy in that? If Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Thomas, and James are allowed to make such colossal mistakes about Jesus' First Coming, then why do you condemn the Advent believers about their mistakes concerning Jesus' Second Coming? If anything, the apostles are more worthy of your condemnation because they above all people should have known better, seeing they were in the direct presence of Jesus for 3 1/2 years, yet you only condemn the Advent believers. Why? Because you are a hypocrite?

The fact is none of them are worthy of any condemnation, but your uninformed bias does not allow you to objectively examine the issues.

Phoneman-777 · Aug 21, 2020

PlainWord said:

So when Jesus warns His disciples about false prophets He wasn't really warning them, instead He was warning people in 1844??

Josephus records a great number of false prophets during his day in War 6-5-2&3:

...Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes. Now a man that is in adversity does easily comply with such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is that the patient is full of hopes of such his deliverance.

3. Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.

Jesus goes on to say, "19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." How were the deceived of 70 AD destroyed? By the fires of Jerusalem perhaps??? I love how you futurists think Christ had nothing to say relating to the pending disaster which would befall His country in less than 40 years but instead focused all His attention to events of our day. You guys crack me up!!

This comment makes no sense whatsoever. No one is arguing that Jesus' warnings about false prophets were without substance or unnecessary.

garee · Aug 21, 2020

Phoneman-777 said:

Jesus said its a faithless evil generation that seeks after a sign. No new signs to wonder after were given. The sign of Jonas the last.

The blood red moon (eclipse) and earthquake as a sign that followed." it is finished" had performed it promised. . "I will open the graves" .The graves were opened witnessed by many angels in heaven. They will remain open until the last day. .
No future prophecy to wonder after was given. We walk by faith the unseen eternal. Revelation 22 ends with a warning not to add put a end to "thus sayeth the Lord". and is sealed with 7 seals

Phoneman-777 · Aug 21, 2020

PlainWord said:

So when Jesus warns His disciples about false prophets He wasn't really warning them, instead He was warning people in 1844??

Josephus records a great number of false prophets during his day in War 6-5-2&3:

...Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes. Now a man that is in adversity does easily comply with such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is that the patient is full of hopes of such his deliverance.

3. Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.

Jesus goes on to say, "19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." How were the deceived of 70 AD destroyed? By the fires of Jerusalem perhaps??? I love how you futurists think Christ had nothing to say relating to the pending disaster which would befall His country in less than 40 years but instead focused all His attention to events of our day. You guys crack me up!!

The only prophet the Advent believers were following when they mistakenly concluded that Jesus would come in 1844 was Daniel, specifically chapter 8.

Phoneman-777 · Aug 21, 2020

garee said:

You cannot see the pertinence of these signs because you are deceived by Jesuit Luiz Alcazar's teachings of a 1st century Antichrist and other errors about a "secret" return of Jesus.

I have challenged you to present historic evidence that Jesus came with blinding, brilliant glory, Earth-shaking audibles, and fiery destruction which left the Earth littered with the bodies of the wicked who were destroyed "with the brightness of His coming"...yet you cannot quote a single historian in any kingdom, culture, or language that personally witnessed or chronicled the news of such a return of Jesus, preferring that we believe His return was a secret to the world and that all that destruction was metaphoric.

Phoneman-777 · Aug 21, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

Yes, Jesus will come and bring destruction with Him at His Second Coming which will leave the planet uninhabitable for 1,000 years while the devil is bound in "chains of circumstance" with no sinners to tempt - they all dropped dead at "the brightness of His coming" - but, the end it not yet. After the 1,000 years, Jesus and the saints will transport with New Jerusalem to Earth where the wicked will then be dealt with and after which the New Earth will be made.

garee · Aug 21, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

That is a FAR CRY from the Millennium being established on earth at that time.

Evidently you do not care to see the sequence of events stated by Christ in the Olivet Discourse (Mattew 24) and in Matthew 25. They must be fulfilled in a particular order before the Millennium can be established.

The Millennium cannot be established until:

(1) the Tribulation and Great Tribulation have run their courses,

(2) the cataclysmic cosmic events in Matthew 24:29 have run their course,

(3) the Second Coming of Christ has taken place,

(4) the battle of Armageddon has been settled,

(5) Satan has been chained in the bottomless pit, and

(6) the Tribulation saints have been resurrected in order to live and reign with Christ.

All of this is in the future, and the solid proof that it is in the future is that Matthew 24:29 has not been fulfilled, otherwise the heavenly bodies would not be where they are right now:

THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days
[1] shall the sun be darkened,
[2] and the moon shall not give her light,
[3] and the stars shall fall from heaven,
[4] and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This corresponds to the events of the 6th Seal in Revelation 6:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Those 6 seem to support the Amil position. Thousand representing a unknown called the last day.

garee · Aug 21, 2020

Phoneman-777 said:

Its not like he left even for a twinkling of the eye.

Its no secret, the same spirit of faith as it is written that lived in the Son of man, Jesus the prophet, apostle, by which he spoke and believed also dwells in our earthen bodies working with us today. Yet he knew no sin .

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

The mutual faith of Christ's labor of love that works in all who believe.

When he as the Son of man left he commanded us not to known him after the temporal things seen any longer.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

The one time propmised demonstration of him and the father is over. When he disappeared out of sight the unseen father could retain all the glory. the window of opportunity 33 years had closed . The full power returned to the glory of the unseen father.

Christ in us the very presence of God. He will not come again and appear in the flesh .

The antichrists that seek after the flesh have ben revealed as the man of sin . They that seek after wonders are looking for a second demonstration . Which would be blasphemy against the unseen power .

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (not seen) shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, (seen) it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Truth7t7 · Aug 21, 2020

Phoneman-777 said:

You have been shown your claim is 100% false, and you pretend as if I never posted it, as you run off on another tangent without direct response, Big Smiles!

The Heavens and Earth are (Dissolved) by the Lord's fire at his return

2 Peter 3:10-11KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Your suggesting that Jeremiah 4:27 (Yet Will I Not Make A Full End) as referring to the earth and the second coming?

Jeremiah was prophesying of the coming Judgement to Jerusalem from invading armies, and how the Lord wasn't going to make a full end of (Jerusalem)

Keep searching, you ain't gonna find this earth surviving the Lord (Dissolving) it by his fire seen in 2 Peter 3:10-11 above

(I Will Not Make A Full End With You) Jerusalem!

Jeremiah 5:14-18
14 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
16 Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all mighty men.
17 And they shall eat up thine harvest, and thy bread, which thy sons and thy daughters should eat: they shall eat up thy flocks and thine herds: they shall eat up thy vines and thy fig trees: they shall impoverish thy fenced cities, wherein thou trustedst, with the sword.
18 Nevertheless in those days, saith the Lord, I will not make a full end with you.

Truth7t7 · Aug 21, 2020

Phoneman-777 said:

OK, it seems I will have to spell it out for you...

1. You DO NOT condemn Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Thomas, or James for being wrong about the First Coming of Jesus and that it would lead Him to the Cross even though He told them plainly it would, nor do you condemn them for their great disappointment and abandonment of Him that continued for a time even until after He had already risen from the dead -- Christians who held the Word made flesh in their arms non-stop for 3 1/2 years while He walked with them, talked with them, and taught them personally.

2. You DO condemn early Advent Christians like Miller for being wrong in their belief about Jesus' Second Coming and their great disappointment when He did not arrive in 1844 - Christians who could only hold in their hands the written Word on paper, but not the Word made flesh.

Do you not see the glaring hypocrisy in that? If Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Thomas, and James are allowed to make such colossal mistakes about Jesus' First Coming, then why do you condemn the Advent believers about their mistakes concerning Jesus' Second Coming? If anything, the apostles are more worthy of your condemnation because they above all people should have known better, seeing they were in the direct presence of Jesus for 3 1/2 years, yet you only condemn the Advent believers. Why? Because you are a hypocrite?

The fact is none of them are worthy of any condemnation, but your uninformed bias does not allow you to objectively examine the issues.

It's not just Miller's false predictions, it's also the volumes of Heretical teachings, from False Prophetess Ellen G. White.

I believe in and follow the 7th day sabbath, however ole Ellen is out in left field, no literal hell, soul sleep, just to mention a few.

Truth7t7 · Aug 21, 2020

Absolutely said:

Yes, he is a follower of Ellen G. White's 7th Day Adventism

Absolutely · Aug 21, 2020

Truth7t7 said:

No wonder it is impossible to get on the same page

The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

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