The second coming of Jesus
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Hello sorberxp!
No, Jesus has not already come. There a myriad of problems with the preterist view, which is what you are claiming whether you know it or not.
Jesus said, "I will build My church and the gates of Hades shall not overcome it." Regarding this, the church is still in the process of being built.
Jesus made a promise in John 14:1-3 to His disciples, as well as to all believers throughout the entire church period which says:
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."
Therefore, when Jesus resurrected and later ascended to the Father, He went to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for every believer. Then He said that He would come back to get us and take to those places that He prepared for us, which again is in the Father's house. The detailed account of His returning to gather His church is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."
All that said, if you have Jesus already returning in 70 AD, then it would mean that He did not keep His promise us and only gathered those in the church up to the when the temple was destroyed, with the rest of the church up to this very moment being left out of the promise.
Furthermore, Jesus never announced that He would come back in 70 AD, as His return has always been imminent. We have no record of Jesus ever gathering the church.
Just fyi, it is important that you understand that the Lord coming to gather the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, that they are two separate events which take place at least seven years apart and these events having two different purposes.
Scripture is clear in that, the wrath of God will take place in conjunction with the time leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and initiate the millennial kingdom. The wrath of God will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, with Jesus returning to the earth after the 7th bowl has been poured out.
None of these things have been fulfilled and are therefore still future.
Regarding the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, Jesus said that "The inhabitants of the earth would see the Son of man arriving on the clouds of the sky and that every eye would see Him, even those who pierced Him." As Jesus is returning to the earth, the following will take place:
* The beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire
* All of those kings, generals, their armies, etc., will be killed with the double-edged sword which is figurative for the word of God
* An angel will call all the birds together to gorge themselves on the flesh of those who will be killed by the double-edged sword
* An angel seizes Satan and throws him into the Abyss and seals it over him during Christ's thousand year reign
* The great tribulation saints are resurrected
The fact is that, none of those events have taken place.
When you claim to have seen a vision or have a dream, they must be supported by scripture, otherwise there would be no way for believers to know whether they are true or not. In this case, the gathering of the church has not yet taken place and none of the events previously mentioned have been fulfilled. Without them, your claim is empty, having no fulfillment. We would have to abandon the rest of the scriptures regarding end-time events and take you at your word.
No, Jesus has not already come. There a myriad of problems with the preterist view, which is what you are claiming whether you know it or not.
Jesus said, "I will build My church and the gates of Hades shall not overcome it." Regarding this, the church is still in the process of being built.
Jesus made a promise in John 14:1-3 to His disciples, as well as to all believers throughout the entire church period which says:
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."
Therefore, when Jesus resurrected and later ascended to the Father, He went to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for every believer. Then He said that He would come back to get us and take to those places that He prepared for us, which again is in the Father's house. The detailed account of His returning to gather His church is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."
All that said, if you have Jesus already returning in 70 AD, then it would mean that He did not keep His promise us and only gathered those in the church up to the when the temple was destroyed, with the rest of the church up to this very moment being left out of the promise.
Furthermore, Jesus never announced that He would come back in 70 AD, as His return has always been imminent. We have no record of Jesus ever gathering the church.
Just fyi, it is important that you understand that the Lord coming to gather the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, that they are two separate events which take place at least seven years apart and these events having two different purposes.
Scripture is clear in that, the wrath of God will take place in conjunction with the time leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and initiate the millennial kingdom. The wrath of God will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, with Jesus returning to the earth after the 7th bowl has been poured out.
None of these things have been fulfilled and are therefore still future.
Regarding the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, Jesus said that "The inhabitants of the earth would see the Son of man arriving on the clouds of the sky and that every eye would see Him, even those who pierced Him." As Jesus is returning to the earth, the following will take place:
* The beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire
* All of those kings, generals, their armies, etc., will be killed with the double-edged sword which is figurative for the word of God
* An angel will call all the birds together to gorge themselves on the flesh of those who will be killed by the double-edged sword
* An angel seizes Satan and throws him into the Abyss and seals it over him during Christ's thousand year reign
* The great tribulation saints are resurrected
The fact is that, none of those events have taken place.
When you claim to have seen a vision or have a dream, they must be supported by scripture, otherwise there would be no way for believers to know whether they are true or not. In this case, the gathering of the church has not yet taken place and none of the events previously mentioned have been fulfilled. Without them, your claim is empty, having no fulfillment. We would have to abandon the rest of the scriptures regarding end-time events and take you at your word.
Here is a message from others,god has rebuild the church.I don't know if it's true,but really seems as god wants to rebuild that church.
A vision my mother saw:
Last year, my family prayed after a Sabbath morning gathering, around 10:30 in the morning. My mother prayed for the church and worried about it. I know that some of the recent events in the church have something to do with an elder.
My mother had visited him before and told him about some of the visions my mother had seen before. He didn't respond. My mother was thinking, it's hard to find him.
At this time, a voice said clearly that the elder was very tall.
I immediately saw a vision in front of me, saw this elder, very bent in prayer, wearing very old gray clothes, about two meters away from me.
A voice immediately responded: "you don't want to see him tall. It's easy for me to get him back."
And then the vision is gone.
Two weeks later, it was the morning of the sabbath, and it was about ten o'clock again. My dad came in from the outside. Said: something big happened. The elder passed away in the morning.
At this time, my mother told my father the vision and voice. My mother thought it was to take back his glory, but she didn't know to take back his life.
Life is short, life is just a breath. We should be humble and loyal to serve the creator of life. God is in charge of the sovereignty of the church. Glory, authority and praise go to the Lord Jesus Christ.
August 4, 2020
A vision my mother saw:
Last year, my family prayed after a Sabbath morning gathering, around 10:30 in the morning. My mother prayed for the church and worried about it. I know that some of the recent events in the church have something to do with an elder.
My mother had visited him before and told him about some of the visions my mother had seen before. He didn't respond. My mother was thinking, it's hard to find him.
At this time, a voice said clearly that the elder was very tall.
I immediately saw a vision in front of me, saw this elder, very bent in prayer, wearing very old gray clothes, about two meters away from me.
A voice immediately responded: "you don't want to see him tall. It's easy for me to get him back."
And then the vision is gone.
Two weeks later, it was the morning of the sabbath, and it was about ten o'clock again. My dad came in from the outside. Said: something big happened. The elder passed away in the morning.
At this time, my mother told my father the vision and voice. My mother thought it was to take back his glory, but she didn't know to take back his life.
Life is short, life is just a breath. We should be humble and loyal to serve the creator of life. God is in charge of the sovereignty of the church. Glory, authority and praise go to the Lord Jesus Christ.
August 4, 2020
p.s I have told in my post, My experience comes from real reality, not from dreams。
I can truely understand your doubt，but I don't understand is,Why do you think things that don't fit your mind are not God's arrangements?
I just ask you some questions, do you fully understand The bible? do you konw everything?do you understand god's work?
I can truely understand your doubt，but I don't understand is,Why do you think things that don't fit your mind are not God's arrangements?
I just ask you some questions, do you fully understand The bible? do you konw everything?do you understand god's work?
the day 2008.10.10 was the second coming of Jesus
I'll bring out all the Scriptures about 10:10,
You choose the part you think you are interested in
We can talk about it
New Testament
Revelation 10:10 I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour.
Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
2-Corinthians 10:10 For some say, "His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing."
1-Corinthians 10:10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel.
Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Acts 10:10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
Luke 10:10 But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say,
Mark 10:10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
Matthew 10:10 take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.
Old Testament
Zechariah 10:10 I will bring them back from Egypt and gather them from Assyria. I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon, and there will not be room enough for them.
Hosea 10:10 When I please, I will punish them; nations will be gathered against them to put them in bonds for their double sin.
Daniel 10:10 A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knee
Ezekiel 10:10 As for their appearance, the four of them looked alike; each was like a wheel intersecting a wheel
Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.
Isaiah 10:10 As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols, kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria--
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull and its edge unsharpened, more strength is needed but skill will bring success.
Proverbs 10:10 He who winks maliciously causes grief, and a chattering fool comes to ruin.
Psalms 10:10 His victims are crushed, they collapse; they fall under his strength.
Job 10:10 Did you not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese,
Nehemiah 10:10 and their associates: Shebaniah, Hodiah, Kelita, Pelaiah, Hanan,
Ezra 10:10 Then Ezra the priest stood up and said to them, "You have been unfaithful; you have married foreign women, adding to Israel's guilt.
2-Chronicles 10:10 The young men who had grown up with him replied, "Tell the people who have said to you, 'Your father put a heavy yoke on us, but make our yoke lighter'--tell them, 'My little finger is thicker than my father's waist.
1-Chronicles 10:10 They put his armor in the temple of their gods and hung up his head in the temple of Dagon.
2-Kings 10:10 Know then, that not a word the LORD has spoken against the house of Ahab will fail. The LORD has done what he promised through his servant Elijah."
1-Kings 10:10 And she gave the king 120 talents of gold, large quantities of spices, and precious stones. Never again were so many spices brought in as those the queen of Sheba gave to King Solomon.
2-Samuel 10:10 He put the rest of the men under the command of Abishai his brother and deployed them against the Ammonites.
1-Samuel 10:10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying
Judges 10:10 Then the Israelites cried out to the LORD, "We have sinned against you, forsaking our God and serving the Baals."
Joshua 10:10 The LORD threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory at Gibeon. Israel pursued them along the road going up to Beth Horon and cut them down all the way to Azekah and Makkedah.
Deuteronomy 10:10 Now I had stayed on the mountain forty days and nights, as I did the first time, and the LORD listened to me at this time also. It was not his will to destroy you.
Numbers 10:10 Also at your times of rejoicing--your appointed feasts and New Moon festivals--you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the LORD your God."
Leviticus 10:10 You must distinguish between the holy and the common, between the unclean and the clean,
Exodus 10:10 Pharaoh said, "The LORD be with you--if I let you go, along with your women and children! Clearly you are bent on evil.
Genesis 10:10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in Shinar.
I'll bring out all the Scriptures about 10:10,
You choose the part you think you are interested in
We can talk about it
New Testament
Revelation 10:10 I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour.
Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
2-Corinthians 10:10 For some say, "His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing."
1-Corinthians 10:10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel.
Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Acts 10:10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
Luke 10:10 But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say,
Mark 10:10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
Matthew 10:10 take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.
Old Testament
Zechariah 10:10 I will bring them back from Egypt and gather them from Assyria. I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon, and there will not be room enough for them.
Hosea 10:10 When I please, I will punish them; nations will be gathered against them to put them in bonds for their double sin.
Daniel 10:10 A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knee
Ezekiel 10:10 As for their appearance, the four of them looked alike; each was like a wheel intersecting a wheel
Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.
Isaiah 10:10 As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols, kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria--
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull and its edge unsharpened, more strength is needed but skill will bring success.
Proverbs 10:10 He who winks maliciously causes grief, and a chattering fool comes to ruin.
Psalms 10:10 His victims are crushed, they collapse; they fall under his strength.
Job 10:10 Did you not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese,
Nehemiah 10:10 and their associates: Shebaniah, Hodiah, Kelita, Pelaiah, Hanan,
Ezra 10:10 Then Ezra the priest stood up and said to them, "You have been unfaithful; you have married foreign women, adding to Israel's guilt.
2-Chronicles 10:10 The young men who had grown up with him replied, "Tell the people who have said to you, 'Your father put a heavy yoke on us, but make our yoke lighter'--tell them, 'My little finger is thicker than my father's waist.
1-Chronicles 10:10 They put his armor in the temple of their gods and hung up his head in the temple of Dagon.
2-Kings 10:10 Know then, that not a word the LORD has spoken against the house of Ahab will fail. The LORD has done what he promised through his servant Elijah."
1-Kings 10:10 And she gave the king 120 talents of gold, large quantities of spices, and precious stones. Never again were so many spices brought in as those the queen of Sheba gave to King Solomon.
2-Samuel 10:10 He put the rest of the men under the command of Abishai his brother and deployed them against the Ammonites.
1-Samuel 10:10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying
Judges 10:10 Then the Israelites cried out to the LORD, "We have sinned against you, forsaking our God and serving the Baals."
Joshua 10:10 The LORD threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory at Gibeon. Israel pursued them along the road going up to Beth Horon and cut them down all the way to Azekah and Makkedah.
Deuteronomy 10:10 Now I had stayed on the mountain forty days and nights, as I did the first time, and the LORD listened to me at this time also. It was not his will to destroy you.
Numbers 10:10 Also at your times of rejoicing--your appointed feasts and New Moon festivals--you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the LORD your God."
Leviticus 10:10 You must distinguish between the holy and the common, between the unclean and the clean,
Exodus 10:10 Pharaoh said, "The LORD be with you--if I let you go, along with your women and children! Clearly you are bent on evil.
Genesis 10:10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in Shinar.
Yes its the dead (evil faithless generation) that seeks after signs as lying wonders. And not the eternal things not seen.
In various parables fish is used to represent "faith" and snake to represent "no faith" as metaphors.
If we confuse the use of the metaphors we cannot come to the hidden understanding in the parable.
Christ as the Son of man appeared in the corrupted flesh of mankind for a one time promised demonstration. Two demonstrations were not promised .We walk by faith the eternal not seen
In various parables fish is used to represent "faith" and snake to represent "no faith" as metaphors.
If we confuse the use of the metaphors we cannot come to the hidden understanding in the parable.
Christ as the Son of man appeared in the corrupted flesh of mankind for a one time promised demonstration. Two demonstrations were not promised .We walk by faith the eternal not seen
am I disagree with you ? you think that I am a liar at the first.so no matter what you still think about I am a liar.
so stop talk to a liar and waste your time, I don't want to do someting bad to you.even that I have The rights as The bible said.
I don't think you're looking at what I'm saying. I need to make a solemn statement。
It's not that I ask for miracles, but God let me see. Do you want to blame God for his way of doing things? If one day when unseen things come and you know the truth, you should forgive me? Or should I forgive you?
so stop talk to a liar and waste your time, I don't want to do someting bad to you.even that I have The rights as The bible said.
I don't think you're looking at what I'm saying. I need to make a solemn statement。
It's not that I ask for miracles, but God let me see. Do you want to blame God for his way of doing things? If one day when unseen things come and you know the truth, you should forgive me? Or should I forgive you?
James
3:5
Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark.
3:8
but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
3:9
With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness.
3:5
Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark.
3:8
but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
3:9
With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness.
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Its not intention to judge only God can see into the hearts of all men and move them to seek after His mercy.
All men are liar's not having the power to believe. Called the generation of Adam or called the evil generation. Having no faith that comes from hearing as it is written. . .not little none.
In that way we see the outcome of the miracles signs that follow .They cannot be replaced with our personal experiences .
We as Christian are hid in the cleft of the Rock (Christ) We can see what is called His back parts or back side, But no man can see his face . . the faith actively working out His unseen will.
When Jesus the Son of man was given a vision in his weakened state the Father gave his apostle Jesus the words as it is written by that understanding alone can we know we are in by His love . the love that makes the serpent flee into darkness.
Christians cannot justify their own selves .He is the just and justifier of those who do understanding according to His faith that works in us. The question poised in Romans 3 must be asked .What if some refuse to believe in a God not seen .Will their work of "unbelief" make the faithful work of God who works in his creatures without effect? His is the justifying work or power.
We must be careful how we walk or say we hear His understanding. The question in Luke 18:18 remains . When he comes on the last day will he find the law of faith as it is written. or people wondering, experiencing, seeking new.?
Romans 3: 3-4 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
In that way we are empowered to protect the faith of Christ that works in us to protect us like a Armor. Shielding His children from the flaming arrows of the dragon (spirit of lies)
All men are liar's not having the power to believe. Called the generation of Adam or called the evil generation. Having no faith that comes from hearing as it is written. . .not little none.
In that way we see the outcome of the miracles signs that follow .They cannot be replaced with our personal experiences .
We as Christian are hid in the cleft of the Rock (Christ) We can see what is called His back parts or back side, But no man can see his face . . the faith actively working out His unseen will.
When Jesus the Son of man was given a vision in his weakened state the Father gave his apostle Jesus the words as it is written by that understanding alone can we know we are in by His love . the love that makes the serpent flee into darkness.
Christians cannot justify their own selves .He is the just and justifier of those who do understanding according to His faith that works in us. The question poised in Romans 3 must be asked .What if some refuse to believe in a God not seen .Will their work of "unbelief" make the faithful work of God who works in his creatures without effect? His is the justifying work or power.
We must be careful how we walk or say we hear His understanding. The question in Luke 18:18 remains . When he comes on the last day will he find the law of faith as it is written. or people wondering, experiencing, seeking new.?
Romans 3: 3-4 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
In that way we are empowered to protect the faith of Christ that works in us to protect us like a Armor. Shielding His children from the flaming arrows of the dragon (spirit of lies)
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God is not rebuilding the church. For to 'rebuild' would infer that it existed previously and it did not. The scripture says, "[I will build] my church" which is in the future tense. And I said, the church is still being built and will continue right up until the Lord appears to gather us. As of now, the church has not been completed as there are people still being added to it daily. Once the church has been completed, then I Thessalonians 4:16-17 will take place bringing it to its end. Following that the wrath of God will ensue.
Those are metaphors used in parables called prophecy .All prophecy to include parables or tongues are God breathed and required when rightly dividing the word of God. The formula for rightly dividing the parables( 2 Corinthians 4:18)
We are not snake handlers of men. But fishers of men. (fish like sheep represent the new creatures. We do not praise each other as a brood of vipers.
I simply changed the understanding he has assigned to them to prove my point . They have a understanding already attached . snakes represent unbelief, no faith. Fish those who have the faith of Christ working in them to both will and do the good pleasure of our unseen God.
I think a person could say. Without parables Christ spoke not And without metaphors in parables he spoke not.
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We must be careful how we hear the understanding of another not seen, by faith..
Did the building the bride of Christ begin with the first apostle sent with prophecy. The first recorded martyr, Abel?
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
The gift of God, the Spirit of Christ working in us with us to both will and do the good pleasure of our God
What was the reason for the first century reformation. And to which time period was the government of God restored to?
Did the building the bride of Christ begin with the first apostle sent with prophecy. The first recorded martyr, Abel?
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
The gift of God, the Spirit of Christ working in us with us to both will and do the good pleasure of our God
What was the reason for the first century reformation. And to which time period was the government of God restored to?