New Testament Conversion

[Guojing]

God still requires circumcision of our heart.

When the Christian church council met they explained to Paul that God does not require that you follow Jewish customs and rituals to be accepted by those whose God is the one true God. That does not change the way of the Lord that is love.

Circumcision of the heart is of love and does not change. The command to cut foreskin as a sign of circumcision that was given to help the unruly mob that escaped slavery in Egypt understand God's ways. Now we are given the Holy Spirit to guide us as those laws were given for guidance, and to obey them instead of listening to God's voice we are given is to deny the Holy Spirit within us.

We are to follow scripture.

Nice deflect as expected, but you do agree it was physical circumcision required by God in Genesis 17:14 correct?

 

[Blik]

Nice deflect as expected, but you do agree it was physical circumcision required by God in Genesis 17:14 correct?

It was required by God temporarily, now it is required that we not cut foreskin.

My post wasn't meant to deflect, only to report scripture. I am only a servant of the Lord, and my orders from the Lord are to agree and I am to do that except when something is added to or taken away for the word of the Lord. If I am not correct I need to be told so, then it is me talking and not the Lord. I am to stay strictly to what scripture says.

 

[wattie]

A key thing for scripture understanding is to know the difference when salvation is from harsh/evil circumstances and when it is eternal salvation.

For eg.. Romans 10.. we see eternal salvation

And then in 1 Peter 3:21.. we see 'baptism now saves' .. but it isn't to do with 'putting away the filth of the flesh'.. this is the other type of salvation

 

[Guojing]

It was required by God temporarily, now it is required that we not cut foreskin.

My post wasn't meant to deflect, only to report scripture. I am only a servant of the Lord, and my orders from the Lord are to agree and I am to do that except when something is added to or taken away for the word of the Lord. If I am not correct I need to be told so, then it is me talking and not the Lord. I am to stay strictly to what scripture says.

So you do agree God did change in his instructions to us.

What was required previously is no longer required.

 

[throughfaith]

You are looking at the trees and not seeing the forest. The basic message of all scripture is to give our sins to Christ for forgiveness. Every other command relates to that. You could say God's message to you is to love your neighbor, but that does not bring you salvation. God's basic message in the OT was the exact message we have in the new. In the OT they were to use the symbolic blood of Christ until Christ came in the flesh, that blood was for the forgiveness of sin. The only difference is that in the instructions in the OT each sin was classified including the sin they were not aware of. Their salvation was in sleep, Christ fulfilled it and now our salvation is in eternal life.

Please study scripture before you tell others what you think it tells us so you report the truth of the word.

Well your looking at the tree and not seeing the big picture. Something happened 2000 years ago which changed everything . You seem to have not noticed what happened on the cross and His resurrection, or you do not understand. We do not ' give ' Jesus our sins . Jesus dealt with the entire cosmos of sins on the cross .

 

[throughfaith]

God still requires circumcision of our heart.

When the Christian church council met they explained to Paul that God does not require that you follow Jewish customs and rituals to be accepted by those whose God is the one true God. That does not change the way of the Lord that is love.

Circumcision of the heart is of love and does not change. The command to cut foreskin as a sign of circumcision that was given to help the unruly mob that escaped slavery in Egypt understand God's ways. Now we are given the Holy Spirit to guide us as those laws were given for guidance, and to obey them instead of listening to God's voice we are given is to deny the Holy Spirit within us.

We are to follow scripture.

So circumcision changed then .

You are looking at the trees and not seeing the forest. The basic message of all scripture is to give our sins to Christ for forgiveness. Every other command relates to that. You could say God's message to you is to love your neighbor, but that does not bring you salvation. God's basic message in the OT was the exact message we have in the new. In the OT they were to use the symbolic blood of Christ until Christ came in the flesh, that blood was for the forgiveness of sin. The only difference is that in the instructions in the OT each sin was classified including the sin they were not aware of. Their salvation was in sleep, Christ fulfilled it and now our salvation is in eternal life.

Please study scripture before you tell others what you think it tells us so you report the truth of the word.

There are no verses that say we give our sins to Jesus to be born again and sealed by the holy spirit until the day of redemption. Was there a ceremony where everyone who ever sinned ,and all there entire sins had to be personally given to Jesus . I missed this long queue of folks lining up handing over all there sins to Jesus in a box or something. I'm just going to stick to the bible which say s Jesus dealt with the Sins of the world reconciling the world , redeeming the sins of the world and then said " it is finished " . I'm not sure which blibe your reading but if you didn't notice Jesus , death , burial and resurrection for our sins ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, its going to be hard for you to learn anything else.

 

[Moses_Young]

So circumcision changed then.

The requirement for it did. It is fulfilled in Christ. Those who claim physical circumcision was not necessary in the Old Testament are obviously forgetting about Moses and Zipporah, not to mention Abraham and Joshua.

There are no verses that say we give our sins to Jesus to be born again and sealed by the holy spirit until the day of redemption. Was there a ceremony where everyone who ever sinned ,and all there entire sins had to be personally given to Jesus . I missed this long queue of folks lining up handing over all there sins to Jesus in a box or something.

Lol. Sounds very Old-Testament like. Are you sure these weren't OT Jews sacrificing a lamb at the temple, as they looked forward to Jesus' once-for-all sacrifice?

I'm just going to stick to the bible which say s Jesus dealt with the Sins of the world reconciling the world , redeeming the sins of the world and then said " it is finished " . I'm not sure which blibe your reading but if you didn't notice Jesus , death , burial and resurrection for our sins ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, its going to be hard for you to learn anything else.

True words.

 

[Blik]

So you do agree God did change in his instructions to us.

What was required previously is no longer required.

This goes much much deeper than what is no longer required. It is a question of whether what the Lord tells us can be questioned or will it change with time. Is the Lord eternal? Did he change His commandments? If God did that, then God cannot be trusted for tomorrow God may change His mind.

I think the Lord can be trusted. I don't think God changed anything that was at the core of any commandments God gave. God gave lots of physical things for the Jews to do as they were taught in the wilderness after the escape from Egypt that, in Christ's time, were called the Law of Moses, but God never changed anything that those customs God gave the Jews were to lead to. God changed the rituals but never the law.
We can check to find out what is a ritual and what is a law the ritual is to lead to by checking if it was a way of loving. As an example, if we love people we will not steal, and if we love the Lord we will celebrate His salvation the Lord gives us.

 

[notuptome]

This goes much much deeper than what is no longer required. It is a question of whether what the Lord tells us can be questioned or will it change with time. Is the Lord eternal? Did he change His commandments? If God did that, then God cannot be trusted for tomorrow God may change His mind.

I think the Lord can be trusted. I don't think God changed anything that was at the core of any commandments God gave. God gave lots of physical things for the Jews to do as they were taught in the wilderness after the escape from Egypt that, in Christ's time, were called the Law of Moses, but God never changed anything that those customs God gave the Jews were to lead to. God changed the rituals but never the law.
We can check to find out what is a ritual and what is a law the ritual is to lead to by checking if it was a way of loving. As an example, if we love people we will not steal, and if we love the Lord we will celebrate His salvation the Lord gives us.

You miss and obfuscate the truth. Salvation was never according to the law or the commandments. Salvation has always been according to grace through faith. This is true in any of the covenants of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Blik]

You miss and obfuscate the truth. Salvation was never according to the law or the commandments. Salvation has always been according to grace through faith. This is true in any of the covenants of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I don't see the connection between defining law and what commands have not changed has to do with salvation. The only tie between salvation and law is that law defines what we are forgiven.

My point was that God never changes His mind so we can absolutely rely on God always offering us grace.

 

[notuptome]

I don't see the connection between defining law and what commands have not changed has to do with salvation. The only tie between salvation and law is that law defines what we are forgiven.

My point was that God never changes His mind so we can absolutely rely on God always offering us grace.

Then stop teaching obedience to commandments and ordinances that never were for salvation as having an effect on salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are not rightly dividing the word of truth there, mixing up both Israel's program together with the program for the Body of Christ.

Our salvation doctrine now is found in Paul's letters, 1 Cor 15:1-4 is the clearest. Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose again for your justification.

That is all that is required for salvation now.

Nothing is required for a free gift. The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. There is no way that the natural man can receive a gospel of spiritual things. until he has been born of the Holy Spirit. God is a Spirit, and we must worship him in Spirit and in truth. Only those with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can receive the things of the Spirit. Epg 2 says the natural man is yet dead (spiritually) in sins, and cannot respond to the things of the Spirit until he is quickened. A spiritually dead man cannot respond to the things of the Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Saved, Salvation, Save, according to Greek interpretation means; delivered, deliverance, deliver. The verses you have quoted do not have reference to eternal deliverance, but a deliverance that we receive here in this world, otherwise it would be "eternal deliverance by works", and that will not harmonize with the other scriptures.

 

[Guojing]

This goes much much deeper than what is no longer required. It is a question of whether what the Lord tells us can be questioned or will it change with time. Is the Lord eternal? Did he change His commandments? If God did that, then God cannot be trusted for tomorrow God may change His mind.

I think the Lord can be trusted. I don't think God changed anything that was at the core of any commandments God gave. God gave lots of physical things for the Jews to do as they were taught in the wilderness after the escape from Egypt that, in Christ's time, were called the Law of Moses, but God never changed anything that those customs God gave the Jews were to lead to. God changed the rituals but never the law.
We can check to find out what is a ritual and what is a law the ritual is to lead to by checking if it was a way of loving. As an example, if we love people we will not steal, and if we love the Lord we will celebrate His salvation the Lord gives us.

There are other examples I can used to show that God did changed his instructions to mankind. I was just using physical circumcision because it was the clearest in scripture.

Others include eating of animals, which was not allowed before the flood, but had been allowed after that.

 

[Blik]

Then stop teaching obedience to commandments and ordinances that never were for salvation as having an effect on salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Well, excuse me! Here I thought salvation was forgiveness of sin.

I am reading tenth century history when heathen Europe began to accept Christ. It was doing a lot to stop the violence, but that was due to obedience and you are saying that obedience doesn't matter! Have you told Christ about this? Christ speaks of repentance, you need to tell Christ repentance doesn't matter.

 

[peldom10]

and lived a sinless life, died for our sins, resurrected and now sits at the right hand of God.

3. Repentance
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

God required circumcision in the past (Genesis 17:14, Exodus 12:48, Acts 15:1) for one to remain in covenant with him.

Do you think he has changed from that requirement?

2:36-38

A person must decide to repent of their sins.

4. Confess

As the scripture above also states that a person must confess that Jesus will now be the Lord of their life.

5. Baptism

At the point of Baptism a person is forgiven of their sins. The one thing that separates us from God. That is also the point in time we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Throughout the process a person is being made into a disciple.

Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

This process is repeated throughout the book of Acts. Would love to hear some feedback and get a discussion going.[/QUOTE]


Why is it not understood by you that the NP has replaced the OT except where indicated.
Christ is our way to Salvation not...blood offerings.

 

[peldom10]

Well, excuse me! Here I thought salvation was forgiveness of sin.

I am reading tenth century history when heathen Europe began to accept Christ. It was doing a lot to stop the violence, but that was due to obedience and you are saying that obedience doesn't matter! Have you told Christ about this? Christ speaks of repentance, you need to tell Christ repentance doesn't matter.

What?
Salvation is the end reward/promise upon God's judgement-saved, after physical death, for following God's commandments.

 

[Guojing]

and lived a sinless life, died for our sins, resurrected and now sits at the right hand of God.

3. Repentance
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


2:36-38

A person must decide to repent of their sins.

4. Confess

As the scripture above also states that a person must confess that Jesus will now be the Lord of their life.

5. Baptism

At the point of Baptism a person is forgiven of their sins. The one thing that separates us from God. That is also the point in time we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Throughout the process a person is being made into a disciple.

Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

This process is repeated throughout the book of Acts. Would love to hear some feedback and get a discussion going.


Why is it not understood by you that the NP has replaced the OT except where indicated.
Christ is our way to Salvation not...blood offerings.

My point to the other member that God did change his requirements for man to follow.

You agree with that correct, since you said the OT was replaced?

 

[Blik]

What?
Salvation is the end reward/promise upon God's judgement-saved, after physical death, for following God's commandments.

The Lord tells us that we do not receive salvation for our work of following the commandments of the Lord. That comes after salvation. Salvation is giving our sin to the Lord for forgiveness.

 

[peldom10]

There are other examples I can used to show that God did changed his instructions to mankind. I was just using physical circumcision because it was the clearest in scripture.

Others include eating of animals, which was not allowed before the flood, but had been allowed after that.

This is vague. (past tense word usage where present tense is suggested, offers challenges of understanding).