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Mar 28, 2016
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Simply put, these verses are not teaching what you are having them to teach, they must be studied within the context. Sometimes the context is a few verses together and sometimes it is chapters long.
Thanks I will try and keep that in mind.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Observers are those who walk or have a understanding after the the temporal corrupted things seen, and not the eternal things of faith, those of God not seen .
Where is that in Scripture?

Thomas having been filled with the Spirit he was moved to give glory to the unseen God.
Where is that in Scripture?

Thomas said those words to Jesus, and about Jesus. Jesus did not correct him. Your assertion is baseless.
 
Aug 12, 2020
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Hi jcollins, I appreciate your posts .. Why did God not redeem Adam in the garden ? And what would it take to restore/redeem him/all man ?
An echo of my sentiments exactly. To accept life as a gift, with its trouble and pains frees me up to consider the unnecessary suffering of lifes shortcomings created by everyones oppression and the entropy of moral decay and social fabric rending brought about by the enemy unnamed. Meaningless, says the teacher...

I find it difficult to believe A&E sinned in the garden. If God does not change and christ was sent flawless, yet was condemned, then maybe Adam was flawless, yet condemned by the world. Compassion is probably the motivation behind what they did, despite what i know is said in the bible. just a quick stab at the idea that all men die "in adam" since he came straight from God with a corrupted morality/logic/fellowship to poison the well; enoch.. there goes that notion, along with the notion of childbirth on earth being enough grounds for denial of membership in heaven as is suggested in revalation 14 4, As enoch was the father of methuselah.

The idea of redeeming man is either; we have to see christ slain to restore us... again, or we finish the work for which we are called. Address the oppression of everyman and quickly.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Most of the time christ referenced the scripture it was directed at those who professed it.
i think He uses both edges of the spiritual sword that proceeds from His mouth at the same time. i have learned that masterful strokes with a sword are those which both parry & riposte simultaneously.



the word justifies the sheep & convicts the goat with a single syllable -- like zwerchau
to the unbelieving, what He says damns, and to the believing, it saves. the same word that is to us the power of God is to the world, incomprehensible. so how does one measure direction?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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An echo of my sentiments exactly. To accept life as a gift, with its trouble and pains frees me up to consider the unnecessary suffering of lifes shortcomings created by everyones oppression and the entropy of moral decay and social fabric rending brought about by the enemy unnamed. Meaningless, says the teacher...

I find it difficult to believe A&E sinned in the garden. If God does not change and christ was sent flawless, yet was condemned, then maybe Adam was flawless, yet condemned by the world. Compassion is probably the motivation behind what they did, despite what i know is said in the bible. just a quick stab at the idea that all men die "in adam" since he came straight from God with a corrupted morality/logic/fellowship to poison the well; enoch.. there goes that notion, along with the notion of childbirth on earth being enough grounds for denial of membership in heaven as is suggested in revalation 14 4, As enoch was the father of methuselah.

The idea of redeeming man is either; we have to see christ slain to restore us... again, or we finish the work for which we are called. Address the oppression of everyman and quickly.
Adam was created flawless, formed fully mature but not God or begotten of God and God still cared for him .. No record of Enoch or Elijah's death, yet, that we are told .. We are told that two witnesses will appear to die then be raised up before the End .. Jesus, God in the flesh, was transfigured then returned to His normal state a week or so before His death on the cross and many have been raised from the dead then died later and many OT Saints burst out of their graves and were seen walking the streets of Jerusalem at Jesus death on the cross.. But no one ceases to exist .. And God supplies as needed ..
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Where is that in Scripture?


Where is that in Scripture?

Thomas said those words to Jesus, and about Jesus. Jesus did not correct him. Your assertion is baseless.
Yours is faithless. no faith. The opposite of faithful believing . Not doubting as wondering.

I base my on the faith in a hope of being revealed by God scripture. Thomas the doubter. Doubting is not believing called exercising ,working out faith as God with with us. . Thomas was given a object lesson on how to mix faith.. . hearing of the gospel .The will that worked in Thomas. Put your hand in the temporal and believe by the eternal power of God working with you . The commandment. Be not faithless (no faith) but believe.

Jesus did not teach Thomas how to walk by sight. That's natural, a evil generation they seek after wonders that can only produce doubt. Not a yes or no. No confidence.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


All that is needed is the right prescription (above) in order to rightly divide the parables. No rightfully dividing the meaning of the parable. It is hid and the doubting takes over the wondering the seeking after of the self-edifiers begins.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Yours is faithless. no faith. The opposite of faithful believing . Not doubting as wondering.
This is not about "me" or "my" anything. It is about the comments you made in your post.

I base my on the faith in a hope of being revealed by God scripture.
That's not even a sentence.

Thomas the doubter. Doubting is not believing called exercising ,working out faith as God with with us. . Thomas was given a object lesson on how to mix faith.. . hearing of the gospel .The will that worked in Thomas. Put your hand in the temporal and believe by the eternal power of God working with you . The commandment. Be not faithless (no faith) but believe.
You excel at eisegesis.

All that is needed is the right prescription (above) in order to rightly divide the parables. No rightfully dividing the meaning of the parable. It is hid and the doubting takes over the wondering the seeking after of the self-edifiers begins.
More irrelevant blather.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Adam was created flawless, formed fully mature but not God or begotten of God and God still cared for him .. No record of Enoch or Elijah's death, yet, that we are told .. We are told that two witnesses will appear to die then be raised up before the End .. Jesus, God in the flesh, was transfigured then returned to His normal state a week or so before His death on the cross and many have been raised from the dead then died later and many OT Saints burst out of their graves and were seen walking the streets of Jerusalem at Jesus death on the cross.. But no one ceases to exist .. And God supplies as needed ..

Because we walk by faith and not after what the eyes see the temporal we can understand the two witnesses of God that make one witness . is the law and prophets likened by Moses the law giver and Elias the unseen power of the law of faith . Not Enoch and Alias.

Moses represent the letter of the law "death" It will not enter the promise land again typified by Moses. . The word of God the gospel will be silenced or killed for a short while, no new faith during that period. .



The vison that worked in the mind of Peter was not mixed with faith Peter took it as literal . The father introduce the son surrounded by the two witnesses of His word . The law and the prophets . Hear ye Him who dwells in us. not to the flesh as did Peter who denied the faith again and again

Matthew 17:3-5 King James Version (KJV) And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Luke 16:15-17 King James Version (KJV) And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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Because we walk by faith and not after what the eyes see the temporal we can understand the two witnesses of God that make one witness . is the law and prophets likened by Moses the law giver and Elias the unseen power of the law of faith . Not Enoch and Alias.

Moses represent the letter of the law "death" It will not enter the promise land again typified by Moses. . The word of God the gospel will be silenced or killed for a short while, no new faith during that period. .



The vison that worked in the mind of Peter was not mixed with faith Peter took it as literal . The father introduce the son surrounded by the two witnesses of His word . The law and the prophets . Hear ye Him who dwells in us. not to the flesh as did Peter who denied the faith again and again

Matthew 17:3-5 King James Version (KJV) And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Luke 16:15-17 King James Version (KJV) And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
And who are the two witnesses in the End Time that lay dead for 3 days
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,008
113
An echo of my sentiments exactly. To accept life as a gift, with its trouble and pains frees me up to consider the unnecessary suffering of lifes shortcomings created by everyones oppression and the entropy of moral decay and social fabric rending brought about by the enemy unnamed. Meaningless, says the teacher...

I find it difficult to believe A&E sinned in the garden. If God does not change and christ was sent flawless, yet was condemned, then maybe Adam was flawless, yet condemned by the world. Compassion is probably the motivation behind what they did, despite what i know is said in the bible. just a quick stab at the idea that all men die "in adam" since he came straight from God with a corrupted morality/logic/fellowship to poison the well; enoch.. there goes that notion, along with the notion of childbirth on earth being enough grounds for denial of membership in heaven as is suggested in revalation 14 4, As enoch was the father of methuselah.

The idea of redeeming man is either; we have to see christ slain to restore us... again, or we finish the work for which we are called. Address the oppression of everyman and quickly.
Do you believe in eternal existence conscious existence ?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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And who are the two witnesses in the End Time that lay dead for 3 days

The law and the prophets (gospel) it will be silenced .They are the two witnesses together as the one perfect law.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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Again thanks, a most interesting view. Since you are settled on this view, it does me no good really to discuss it further. As my view, of this section of Scripture, did not change your view, I am afraid you have not changed mine either. It is interesting still, But I still maintain that the five who were late, were unsaved.
No problem. Thanks for the exchange. Go well bro.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Adam was created flawless, formed fully mature but not God or begotten of God and God still cared for him .. No record of Enoch or Elijah's death, yet, that we are told .. We are told that two witnesses will appear to die then be raised up before the End .. Jesus, God in the flesh, was transfigured then returned to His normal state a week or so before His death on the cross and many have been raised from the dead then died later and many OT Saints burst out of their graves and were seen walking the streets of Jerusalem at Jesus death on the cross.. But no one ceases to exist .. And God supplies as needed ..
The two witnesses are witness of God .Not the witness of men what the eyes see. When the graves were opened a (metaphor) the witness were the angels in the new Jerusalem, the city of Christ, prepared as His bride .

No one has received the promise of their new incorruptible bodies all die not receiving it. No eye has seen.

The law and the prophets God's one witness .Prophecy is the witness of God .

Two kinds the witness of God's word. . the greater. (the law and the prophets ). typified by Moses and Elisa

Satan like in all things makes two of God things into one and one into two .What God calls separate he calls together as one .(vice versa)

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this (as it is written) is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
 
Aug 12, 2020
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i think He uses both edges of the spiritual sword that proceeds from His mouth at the same time. i have learned that masterful strokes with a sword are those which both parry & riposte simultaneously.



the word justifies the sheep & convicts the goat with a single syllable -- like zwerchau
to the unbelieving, what He says damns, and to the believing, it saves. the same word that is to us the power of God is to the world, incomprehensible. so how does one measure direction?
Measure direction by intention, No man can serve two master, so if God is an agent of order and creation and his foundation is christ in all then the spirit who demands some be saved others be destroyed denies God in the oppressed. Are we not all of God??? All warfare is deception.
 
Aug 12, 2020
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Do you believe in eternal existence conscious existence ?
While on earth i believe -go forth fill the earth and subdue it with the caveat; beware consequences exist beyond the apparent.