Justified by work vs faith

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#61
Obedience comes after you are born again. God quickened you to a new life for the purpose of honoring, and praising him, and to be obedient to do good works. After we are born again, we should strive to do good works and be obedient, but we are not always obedient, and yes we will still go to heaven.
1. So you believe not obidient (for Example rob the bank for living) still go to heaven as long as you born again.

2. You believe only born again able to hear the Word

What you take oN rome 10:17

Faith come from hearing

Able to hear than faith
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#62
To forgive the sin of the people that believe in Him, believe His teaching.
Could you provide scripture as to what you believe Jesus accomplished on the cross and through his resurrection please ?
Obedience comes after you are born again. God quickened you to a new life for the purpose of honoring, and praising him, and to be obedient to do good works. After we are born again, we should strive to do good works and be obedient, but we are not always obedient, and yes we will still go to heaven.
1. So you believe not obidient (for Example rob the bank for living) still go to heaven as long as you born again.

2. You believe only born again able to hear the Word

What you take oN rome 10:17

Faith come from hearing

Able to hear than faith
Your correct on your second point .
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#63
What do you mean by work If the law?
It means anything done in accordance with the LAW of Moses in order to gain merit with God.
It does not mean shoveling concrete 6 days a week in 102 deg (F) weather.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#64
So you believe philipians2 work for righteous not for salvation

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own SALVATION with fear and trembling.

My brother the verse say work for salvation not righteousness
Are you saying that if we take our sins to the Lord for forgiveness, that is working for righteousness? I am not understanding your connection. Please explain.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#65
Could you provide scripture as to what you believe Jesus accomplished on the cross and through his resurrection please ?
You mean a verse that prove Jesus forgive the sin oN the cross?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#66
It means anything done in accordance with the LAW of Moses in order to gain merit with God.
.
Anything accordance to the law of Moses

For Example do not murder

Love your God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#67
Are you saying that if we take our sins to the Lord for forgiveness, that is working for righteousness? I am not understanding your connection. Please explain.
No
You say that verse mean work for righteous

But that verse say work for salvation

Philippians 2:12, KJV: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own SALVATION with fear and trembling.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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#68
4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

Abraham justified by faith, is that mean he don't need to work?

Start with faith, Abraham had to do a Lot of work.

Faith make him to do work, travel with thousand of animal about 2200 miles. That is a Lot of work.

Quote
From Ur, Abraham traveled 700 miles to the borders of present-day Iraq, another 700 miles into Syria, another 800 down to Egypt by the inland road, and then back into Canaan - what is now Israel.Mar 13, 1983

End quote.

By faith Noah do a Lot of work to save himself and whosoever believe.

He had to build a huge ship. That is alot of work.

When the Lord ask Abraham to go to the promise land, Abraham not say, Yes Lord, but you do It for me, Send your angel to carry me and my family, and my animal and I Will be there in a second by faith

Apparently he had to work for It.

By faith we save, as soon as we have faith and die in the next se
Why not both faith and works?
A warning against Favoritism: James 2
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? 21 Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spies and sent them off on another route? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#69
No
You say that verse mean work for righteous

But that verse say work for salvation

Philippians 2:12, KJV: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own SALVATION with fear and trembling.
Work for salvation?

Salvation not by work

Is Paul disagree himself

He say salvation not by work

Than he say work out your salvation
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#70
Why not both faith and works?
A warning against Favoritism: James 2
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? 21 Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24 As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.


That what I think the bible teach us my brother
Faith bear fruit of loving work that save us

I say I have faith in God but I do rob the bank for living, am I save?
I don't think so

Some people believe after born again, killing robing don't need repent still go to heaven

Because salvation by faith not by work, David murder and Moses murder .

I believe David and Moses repent, If not they are not go to heaven.

People in my church believe after accepting Christ, murder only reduce your reward. But still go to heaven
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spies and sent them off on another route? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#71
People in my church believe after accepting Christ, No matter what you do ex, murder rob the bank for living not make you lose your salvation only reduce your reward that because

1 salvation by faith, not by work.
2. David murder, Moses murder and they are save
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
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#72
People in my church believe after accepting Christ, No matter what you do ex, murder rob the bank for living not make you lose your salvation only reduce your reward that because

1 salvation by faith, not by work.
2. David murder, Moses murder and they are save
Salvation is a gift of God by his grace.
What if only God knows? And the rest of it, our live long life believing and thinking we are Saved, is an illusion. When it is a gift of God how do we know if we are saved? Maybe what we're told to do, hold faith and do good works, is a means of making us commit to being better people? And better than we were before, for those who find Christ and were what are known as, the worst of the worst.
Come the judgment, when we're dead and before God and his Book of Life is opened, that is when we find out if he wrote our names in it and if then we are saved. Because in that moment is the moment that either makes us to enter Heaven, or not.

There are some teachers who say, holding faith in life is a matter of living the faith instilled by Christ through his word. And that being The Word, Holy Spirit God, at our judgment is when we find out if we are saved. Until then we can imagine so but only God knows.
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
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#74
People in my church believe after accepting Christ, No matter what you do ex, murder rob the bank for living not make you lose your salvation only reduce your reward that because

1 salvation by faith, not by work.
2. David murder, Moses murder and they are save
You keep bringing up murder but have you forgotten that anger is likened to murder in the beatitudes?

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[b] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[c] of fire. (Matt. 5:21-22 ESV)


Do you think a believer can get angry and keep their salvation?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#75
Salvation is a gift of God by his grace.
Grace through faith

Ephesian 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Because by grace so you believe murder don't need repent go to heaven?
then we can imagine so but only God knows.
Only God know but God already share what He know in John 3:16
Now not only God know but whosoever read that verse know
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#76
Yeah whats your understanding of what Jesus did on the Cross and the resurrection, from the scriptures ?
Yeah whats your understanding of what Jesus did on the Cross and the resurrection, from the scriptures ?
1 peter 3:8

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#77
You keep bringing up murder but have you forgotten that anger is likened to murder in the beatitudes?

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[b] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[c] of fire. (Matt. 5:21-22 ESV)


Do you think a believer can get angry and keep their salvation?
Angry = murder

I don't want to say about my opinion, but I Will qoute what bible say about murder than up to you If you believe the bible or not.

1 cor 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

It Seem you not agree with the bible, am I correct?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#78
1 peter 3:8

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Did you mean 3.18 ¶For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
once for sins . I agree . Then Sin is no longer the issue .
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#79
Do you think a believer can get angry and keep their salvation?
If you believe angry = murder

Galatians 5

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Than base oN this verse

Shall not inherit the kingdom

I don't like this verse because I am angry man, but can I change the verse base oN what I want?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#80
If you believe angry = murder

Galatians 5

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Than base oN this verse

Shall not inherit the kingdom

I don't like this verse because I am angry man, but can I change the verse base oN what I want?
who's the ' they ' in verse 21 ? Unbelievers or believers ?