My God does accomplish all of his will. Your God does not accomplish his will to eternally deliver all mankind.
Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
- Thread starter GraceAndTruth
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Eph 2:5 says that in the new birth, we are quickened together with Christ. 2 Timothy 13 says, if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
Jesus said of the Pharisees....Blind leaders of the blind!
Dan 4:33, And all of the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Christ did not die for all mankind, but only for those that his Father gave him, and he will not lose any of them, but raise them up at the last day. John 6:39.
Your theory is that Christ died for all mankind, and his will is to save them all, but he can't, because some of mankind will not let him. They stay his hand!
Which of these God's would be better to trust in; The one that can accomplish his will, or the one that cannot accomplish his will?
You do not have harmony of the scriptures, and harmonizing the scriptures will reveal the truth.
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EleventhHour
Guest
It is your god that could, but will not, and not only that, he denies it from even being possible.
You have false presuppositions with regards to the meaning of the "sovereignty of God" and then you must make scripture fit them,
rather than actually understanding the nature of God as revealed in scripture and how He interacts with humanity.
The true sovereign nature of God does not make Him out to be a control freak and puppet master condemning a group of people to hell because it pleases Him to do so.
Odd how you guys see scripture. There is is only one God and he made the plan for salvation. He gave men choice to accept and believe or not. If a man chooses not to accept, then it is the man that failed not God. Thus, no man will have an excuse.
How is it not plain by reading scripture that God wants all men to be saved...yet they won't because he gives them choice in the matter...they choose to receive or not. Simple as that....
Your theory is filled with holes and doesn't hold water. To try to twist scriptures and say that if all men don't get saved then God some how failed is blasphemy. God never fails. It is man who fails, but he made a way to escape if they will accept it.
Really though, who do you think failed in the garden. We know God told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge. So he didn't want them too and it was not his will. Well, they went against his will and did it anyway...so who do you think failed there?
Hint...It was not God that failed...He gave them a choice and also gave them consequences for their choice....He didn't make them eat it and he didn't stop them from eating, but gave them a choice. Simple as that....
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EleventhHour
Guest
Odd indeed ... an ideology that holds the mind captive. Sad.
And notice these lies once believed are the hindrance to believing the Truth and be corrected.
Yeah, I just don't get it. No matter how many times and ways you show them the scriptures and how it goes completely against Calvinism...It's like they never see or understand. IDK...
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EleventhHour
Guest
They simply cannot see differently. It is a blindness that we cannot relate to, thankfully.
Amazing! how you defend your theory with scriptures. Do you get your theory from the scriptures, or some other source? How about, let's discuss harmonizing the scriptures, and see whose theory is right.
What part of "none can stay his hand" did you not understand? Jonah tried to "stay his hand", by refusing to go to Nineveh, but did God let him stay his hand? No, He purposed events that made Jonah yield to God's will. God purposes events in all of our lives that changes our intended direction. Do you believe in an "all powerful God", or do you believe in a God that does not accomplish his will?
This theory of yours that says, God will not usurp authority over Man's will, is what is blasphemy, and nowhere does it imply, or state that in the scriptures. That is a man made idea, that is contrary to the scriptures.
God does not want all mankind to be delivered eternally, or he would deliver them. It's as simple as that, and is in harmony with the scriptures. Do you believe that God has the power to do whatsoever he wants? Yes, or no.
God tells you not to commit sins, do you obey him? No, you go against his will and do it anyway, but you will still inherit eternal life, if it so be that you have been regenerated. Did he usurp authority over your will? Yes he did.
You do not believe the truth, unless you are harmonizing the scriptures, which you are not.
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EleventhHour
Guest
When did God make Jonah go to Nineveh? He didn't make him do anything, but he sure did make him wish he had...when he got swallowed up by a whale. Not sure what you call it, but I call it chastising. He didn't make him go to Nineveh. Jonah had a choice and chose wrong but God chastised him and once the whale spit him up...Jonah was willing to do it. Still didn't mean God made him, though.
What part of Pharaoh, don't you get? God gave him chance after chance to obey...Yet he would not and so God sent plagues each time, but Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not obey, even though he saw that God kept hitting him with plague after plague. Pharaoh was still to stubborn to obey.
God don't lie. He does want all men to come to repentance and that is exactly what he said. To say it any other way is twisting it and not truthfully representing scripture.
And if you want to harmonize scripture you should and you need to start from the beginning and harmonize all scripture so that you can get a picture of who God really is....He is a God of love, justice, and judgement. He doesn't make people to burn for no other reason than he just don't like them so he will never give them a chance. Nothing in the Bible supports this when all the scriptures are taken together and in context....
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EleventhHour
Guest
Does this mean taking ideas contradictory to a system and then changing the meaning of words within scripture fit the system?
Be not removed from the simple Gospel.....
I have plenty of harmony with the scriptures pal.....what you peddle came from a man named Calvin in the mid 1500's......and what he peddled is heretical!
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