The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

[PlainWord]

No conflict. The bodies of flesh of those who are alive at the Resurrection die as the saints take on their new "glorified" bodies.

You seem to be suggesting a mass death event to bring these two passages into agreement? No such teaching is found and is not supported by any other passage. The conflict exists when you have one passage suggesting a "rapture" of living people (1 Thes 4:17) vs. another passage which insists everyone must die first (Heb 9:27).

So again, I believe the appropriate way to view Heb 9:27 and 1 Thes 4:17 is to see that those who outlived the resurrection, or were not yet born, are caught up with the resurrected after they each die. This would mean no mass rapture of living and no escaping death. There is no support for the "Fly Away Doctrine." Let's not forget that we have 2 Cor 12:1-2 which discusses the rapture of 1 individual where the same word, Harpazo, is used. This supports my view.

 

[PlainWord]

Are you guys aware that the gathering of the rotten fruit in rev 14 is BEFORE THE END OF THE GT?.

REV 14 has 3 gatherings ...all DURING the gt.

No, both the gathering of the "harvest of the earth" (Israel) and the pressing of the vine of the earth (Wicked Israel) happened before the siege of Jerusalem as I explained earlier. The harvest was the resurrection of the saints where the trampling of the winepress occurred outside the city of Jerusalem showing the fall of all the cities of Israel from one end of Israel to the other. The length of Israel from north to south is exactly 1,600 furlongs.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This would mean no mass rapture of living and no escaping death.

Quite obviously you are bound and determined to persist in your errors and in fact double down on them. And when people love error more than truth, God gives them over to delusion. And your posts show how deluded you are.

 

[Absolutely]

Are you guys aware that the gathering of the rotten fruit in rev 14 is BEFORE THE END OF THE GT?.

REV 14 has 3 gatherings ...all DURING the gt.

Firstfruit jews first (144k)
Ripe fruit 2nd (main jewish harvest....depicted in JESUS'S first miracle..."you saved the best for last")
Then the remaining wicked ones (overripe rotten fruit) to armageddon.
1....2....3.
The parable of the wedding supper.
1 original invitees
2 alternate gusts
3 other guests to complete the number.

Wedding supper has more than one groups seated.

Brides family
Grooms family
Guests
Bride and groom

Jesus and the patriarchs ....firstfruits
Main harvest....gentile bride
Jewish remnant.

.....those that recieve the gospel towards the end of the
Gt. (Note angels are preaching during the gt....gathering stragglers)

Come to the marriage supper....in heaven.

 

[PlainWord]

You seem to be quite confused.

According to Scripture the Resurrection/Rapture is ONE EVENT in two phases but within the twinkling of an eye (in nanoseconds). The saints who had died will be resurrected and receive glorified bodies (having been perfected), while the saints who are alive at that time will be transformed, perfected, glorified. All of this is supernatural and wrought be the power of God and Christ. It is also the culmination of salvation which is in three phases: (1) justification (2) sanctification, and (3) glorification.

At the Resurrection/Rapture Christ does NOT descend to earth but comes "in the air", and then returns with all the saints to Heaven, in anticipation of the Marriage of the Lamb.

At the same time, we need to see that the Bible speaks of "the First Resurrection" and (by implication) it means that there is a Second Resurrection.

The First Resurrection is for the righteous but it is actually in three phases (just like a Hebrew harvest): (1) Christ the First Fruits, (2) all the saints at the Resurrection/Rapture (the main harvest), and (3) the Tribulation saints (as the gleanings).

The Second (and last) Resurrection is for the unrighteous or unsaved dead. This happens at the Great White Throne Judgment.

I'm not confused at all. Indeed God brought with Him those who slept in Jesus. This happened circa 66-68 AD. This was the resurrection of the Just. Yes, this happens in the "air" or spiritual realm. Correct, Christ DOES NOT descend to earth again. Also agree about the second resurrection of the unjust, that comes last. The part you have wrong is the harpazo or rapture. It is NOT a singular event taking place at the same time as the resurrection. The rapture happens after the resurrection. It is an immediate, twinkling of the eye, change into one's spiritual body which ascends to heaven as each of us dies.

You need to consider that Christ's redemptive work on the Cross restored all things, that being return to the connection to God upon death. He unlocked Hades and freed the captives. These OT saints are in heaven now. They are NOT still waiting in Hades. Since Hades is obsolete for us believers, we never go there, rather we go straight to heaven when we die.

It would have been clearer if Paul added these words to the end but he assumed it was understood and it was to people of his day.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air when we die. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Paul also taught:

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

There is no such thing as a "fly away alive skipping death" mass event. That is a mis-reading of this passage and all others such as this:

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.

No exception is made to this rule!!!

 

[PlainWord]

Quite obviously you are bound and determined to persist in your errors and in fact double down on them. And when people love error more than truth, God gives them over to delusion. And your posts show how deluded you are.

Pot calling the kettle????

 

[PlainWord]

That sure is a long time for the Lord to be waiting around in the clouds...

He isn't waiting. He's in heaven. AKA, "Clouds of Heaven." "Air" is synonymous with the spiritual realm.

 

[GaryA]

Rev 14 harvest is during the gt

Nope.

The GT ends when the Two Witnesses "show up on the scene" - the timing of Revelation 14:14-20 - at the Second Coming of Christ - is at least 3.5 years after that...

 

[GaryA]

He isn't waiting. He's in heaven. AKA, "Clouds of Heaven." "Air" is synonymous with the spiritual realm.

What happened to you...???

 

[PlainWord]

What happened to you...???

After studying all of the various prophetic models I came to the conclusion that only the Preterist model fits all scripture. The GT was the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD (Jerusalem surrounded by armies Lk 21). Christ's presence returned immediately after that Tribulation (suffering and starvation) to destroy the city and temple IAW His multiple predictions. It's the nature of Christ's parousia return that is so badly misunderstood. The dead were resurrected (taken out of Hades and brought to heaven). The Wrath of the Lamb was aimed squarely at those responsible for His murder. No other generation is in focus except that wicked, perverse and adulterous generation of the first century which He threatened. There is no greater crime than rejecting and killing Messiah and declaring a pagan emperor as your only true king. That was the final straw for Israel.

I have sound Biblical and historical support for everything I state. Sorry . You should really consider it as it all makes total sense.

 

[Absolutely]

Nope.

The GT ends when the Two Witnesses "show up on the scene" - the timing of Revelation 14:14-20 - at the Second Coming of Christ - is at least 3.5 years after that...

Jesus takes two groups up to heaven AFTER JESUS RETURNS?

Or maybe you are saying the gt is half the 7 years?

Meaning the 2 groups are gathered mid trib?

I dont play the "gt and wrath" 50/50 game.

The entire 7 years are both wrath and tribulation.

Tribulation is "trouble"
Wrath Carries "trouble" with it.

There is no 50/50.
The entire deal kicks off with the white horseman.....a ton of wrath.
God kicks it off.

 

[PlainWord]

Nope.

The GT ends when the Two Witnesses "show up on the scene" - the timing of Revelation 14:14-20 - at the Second Coming of Christ - is at least 3.5 years after that...

Actually the GT ends when Rome broke through to the temple and destroyed it, thus ending the siege. Peter and Paul, who were killed in Rome by Vespasian, rose 3.5 days later exactly when Titus broke through. We see this in Rev 11 when a tenth of the city fell and 7,000 were killed. The temple made up 1/10th of the size of Jerusalem. Josephus claims that 10,000 were killed when the temple fell but this was likely a rounding or estimate of the 7,000 who actually died according to Rev 11. Then we see the 2nd woe ending and the sounding of the 7th trumpet in which Christ's presence returned.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Nope

It says specifically escape to another location.

".....escape the things about to come upon the earth and stand b4 the son of God"

Nothing in that verse which demands the escape immediately precedes the standing. Moreover, Jesus prayed for God to NOT take the saints out of this world, but to keep them from the evil, obviously while yet therein. Are you suggesting Jesus' prayer was not answered? Many examples of God's preserving power are illustrated in the Bible, so the idea that the only way God can preserve His saints is to completely remove them from the Earth is unreasonable.

 

[Phoneman-777]

No.
Postrib doctrine has the saints raptured only to the clouds.
No mansions,no wedding feast.

I keep saying postrib doctrine is poorly thought out.

Post-trib doctrine doesn't limit the journey to just the clouds - we join Jesus in the air and return to heaven with Him to live and reign for 1,000 years. I've never heard of anyone claiming the clouds are the final destination.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Lol rev 14 has a Jesus gathering of ripe fruit during the gt.

Pssst...that would be before you say the dead are raised.

Where does it say that? Revelation 14 is the final warning message that goes to the world, and only my church is preaching it - 1) The Judgment Hour has arrived and God is calling us back to worshiping Him alone as Creator and to evidence that by keeping His commandments, 2) the Babylonian global apostate false religious confederacy headed up by the Papacy is fallen and we are to come out of her before it's too late, and 3) don't take the Mark of the Beast.

Most people have no idea who the Beast is, and yet are foolishly confident they know what the Mark of the Beast is...like claiming to know the favorite dessert of the person in front of you at the drive thru without having the slightest idea who they are.

 

[GaryA]

Or maybe you are saying the gt is half the 7 years?

The entire 7 years are both wrath and tribulation.

There is no 7-year End Times prophetic period.

There is a 3.5-year End Times prophetic period - we call it the Two Witnesses.

The end of the GT coincides with the beginning of the time of the Two Witnesses.

Tribulation is "trouble"
Wrath Carries "trouble" with it.

This is one of the things that throw people off in their interpretation(s) of End Times prophecy - making associations like this (and then wrapping scripture around it and molding scripture to it) - instead of examining the details of biblical prophecy and aligning events into a chronological timeline...

 

[Absolutely]

Nothing in that verse which demands the escape immediately precedes the standing. Moreover, Jesus prayed for God to NOT take the saints out of this world, but to keep them from the evil, obviously while yet therein. Are you suggesting Jesus' prayer was not answered? Many examples of God's preserving power are illustrated in the Bible, so the idea that the only way God can preserve His saints is to completely remove them from the Earth is unreasonable.

Reread it.
They were killed/murdered by the devil.
All but John.

Compare to the gt.
All are murdered refusing the mark.
No protection in either dynamic.

 

[Absolutely]

There is no 7-year End Times prophetic period.

There is a 3.5-year End Times prophetic period - we call it the Two Witnesses.

The end of the GT coincides with the beginning of the time of the Two Witnesses.


This is one of the things that throw people off in their interpretation(s) of End Times prophecy - making associations like this (and then wrapping scripture around it and molding scripture to it) - instead of examining the details of biblical prophecy and aligning events into a chronological timeline...

Ok.
Then our vast gulf of differences is in how you proceed from a erroneous beginning.

We have no common ground.

 

[Absolutely]

There is no such thing as a "fly away alive skipping death" mass event. That is a mis-reading of this passage and all others such as this:

Yet we see it with enoch,Elijah, the saints in 1 thes 4,and the ripe fruit jewish remnant in rev 14.

Your deal is riddled with holes.

Clever spiritualizing of future events is poor exegesis.

 

[Absolutely]

Where does it say that? Revelation 14 is the final warning message that goes to the world, and only my church is preaching it - 1) The Judgment Hour has arrived and God is calling us back to worshiping Him alone as Creator and to evidence that by keeping His commandments, 2) the Babylonian global apostate false religious confederacy headed up by the Papacy is fallen and we are to come out of her before it's too late, and 3) don't take the Mark of the Beast.

Most people have no idea who the Beast is, and yet are foolishly confident they know what the Mark of the Beast is...like claiming to know the favorite dessert of the person in front of you at the drive thru without having the slightest idea who they are.

No that is not rev 14.
Rev 14 is 3 harvests.
After the first 2 Angel's preach the gospel.
There is no humans preaching.
They are all being seated at the marriage feast.
Jesus is depicted in the clouds with a sickle harvesting ripe fruit.

Before that event the 144k are in heaven. Firstfruits jews.
They can not be firstfruit jews without a subsequent main harvest..

The last harvest of rev 14 is not by Jesus. Angel's gather the wicked.