By Works

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soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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How are works part of our salvation?
How are they not?
Even in the Bible we're told works were intrinsically linked with even the Apostles salvation. The book of the acts (actions) of the Apostles.
And there are those scriptures that tell us so as well.

Question to you: How are there no works pertaining to our salvation?
 

Just_Jo

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
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So you agree that, based on what John is writing, one who believes in Jesus but hates his brother, he cannot have eternal life?



No eternal life if no repentance and reconciliation.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
How are they not?
Even in the Bible we're told works were intrinsically linked with even the Apostles salvation. The book of the acts (actions) of the Apostles.
And there are those scriptures that tell us so as well.

Question to you: How are there no works pertaining to our salvation?
3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 4:3-5

Works are not part of salvation because for

1) that puts God in our debt .. rather than salvation being a free gift
2) that makes the work of Jesus incomplete because we need something to add to it
3) how much works.... we have no metric
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Question. Didn't check your profile to see if you posted your age. Have you in your whole life ever hated someone?
Well, different people have definition definition of the word hate, so I would certainly entertain the possibility that I might have done so.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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No eternal life if no repentance and reconciliation.
So John is not preaching OSAS correct? One who is saved, but find himself hating a brother, need to repent and reconcile with that brother, otherwise, he may lose his eternal life?
 

Just_Jo

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
389
258
63
So John is not preaching OSAS correct? One who is saved, but find himself hating a brother, need to repent and reconcile with that brother, otherwise, he may lose his eternal life?





I do not believe in OSAS,God is a righteous judge of the hearts and action of man.
I'll leave it in His hands!

I do believe in E.S. based on the obedience required in His word.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I do not believe in OSAS,God is a righteous judge of the hearts and action of man.
I'll leave it in His hands!

I do believe in E.S. based on the obedience required in His word.
So to sum up your doctrine, security is eternal only if we obey according to his word?

If we don't obey, that security is not eternal?
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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I do not believe in OSAS,God is a righteous judge of the hearts and action of man.
I'll leave it in His hands!

I do believe in E.S. based on the obedience required in His word.
If it is based on anything, wouldn't it then qualify to be called, conditional salvation? Based on obedience?
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 4:3-5

Works are not part of salvation because for

1) that puts God in our debt .. rather than salvation being a free gift
2) that makes the work of Jesus incomplete because we need something to add to it
3) how much works.... we have no metric
Maybe a less incendiary word for works would be, deeds?
I don't accept that our works in the name of God and by his leading puts God in our debt. How could the free gift have a debtor at all?
If the unrepentant are judged according to their misdeeds, why would God not count the good deeds of his servants at our judgment?
We don't have to work to remain saved, or show we're worthy of salvation. Salvation is a free gift of God through his grace.

If we are saying we are Christian but have nothing to show for representing God in this life when we die and stand before the judgment seat, what were we in this life then? "HIi! I believed! That was it. You did say it was a free gift, right?!" ?

We're told we are justified by our works not by faith alone. I think that's pretty clear as to how works, deeds, pertain to our faith and salvation. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. Faith is intrinsically linked with salvation as well.

James 2:24-26
Faith without works, deeds, is dead.

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Yes.
If I kill someone who is trying to murder someone in front of me, man and his court does not prosecute me. God would also know I was risking my life in defense of another, which is not condemned by God in his word, and as such I would remain saved.
There are junkies who were and are Christian. They have a lapse on the way but that doesn't mean God turns from them. If anything, that is when they need God the most.

As I read it, verses that tell us God will turn away from us, or that passage that says , if we deny Jesus he shall deny us, are not saying, God will strip away our salvation. Our salvation is eternal life through Christ our Lord. It isn't something we find out about, if we passed the mortal test, to achieve the salvific promise while on earth. Rather, again as I've read it, we are saved the moment we accept Christ as our savior. Savior=Salvation=Saved. Jesus said, no one can take us from his hand. If no one on earth can do that, then Jesus shall not either. Or else he would have worded the scripture to read, no one can take you from my hand but you are able to release my grace filled covenant if you choose.

That would make us able to out-know God, since he knows who are his sheep and those who will at the judgment argue they did this and that in his name, i.e. as professing Christians, yet he does not know them.

People who lose their salvation, in my view, are those type people. Those who were never part of the actual covenant. We can't fool God. While fake Christians abound.
How about murder and rob the bank?
Do you believe imposible for person that accepting the Lord, doing sin like rob the bank or other sin?

So you believe Christian Will never fall from their faith?
L

1 Timothy 4:1

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Believe is a verb.

Abraham believe in God So when God want him to do something (work) he did

For Example God want Abraham move to another town. It take a Lot of work, he have to walk hundreds of mile bring all his animal with him. It is a work.

When God want him to sacrifice his son, It is a work, he had to walk to the mountain, prepare a Wood etc.
 
May 31, 2020
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I believe that there is an element of truth to that because each one of us is a unique individual in our personal relationship with the Lord with our own particular situation and environment. With that said, most of of scripture is speaking to all of us such as God is love and Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. That God is three unique entities, Father, Son, Holy Spirit comprising one God. But yes, in certain instances God may indeed speak differently depending on the individual and the events that played a part in defining who that person is at that moment in time.
I have a difficult time trying to reason that God would teach eternal security to one person and losable salvation to another.
 
May 31, 2020
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That's what I was saying, yes. But please note, I'm merely repeating what Jesus assured. "I never knew you".
I never knew you” means exactly that.
I encourage you to be at peace knowing your salvation is eternally secured in Christ. 😊
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
113
How about murder and rob the bank?
Do you believe imposible for person that accepting the Lord, doing sin like rob the bank or other sin?

So you believe Christian Will never fall from their faith?
L

1 Timothy 4:1

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”
I never alluded nor stated outright that I believe a Christian will never lose their faith. I said we can never lose our salvation.