Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[ForestGreenCook]

I appreciate that is what the system teaches . That the Father gave a love gift to the Son , ' Calvinists ' . Its a very ' me ' centered theology . Its about Jesus , he's the only preexisting elect before the foundation of the world .

That is what you have been taught, There are many scriptures that embrace the fact that God has an elect family of children.

We are not to take to heart what preachers tell us, until we search the scriptures out, and prove them with the other scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize with each other before you can understand the truths that Jesus taught.

 

[dcontroversal]

That rings a bell.

Calvin is dead. He is not the author and finisher of our new faith . . .that works in us.

Calvin is not our confidence of someone who had begun the good work of salvation in us and promises to finish his work of faith as a labor of his love to the end.

Philippians 1:5-6 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The gospel is the breakfast of Champions not Wheaties . Cheerios is the go go power. not chicken feed. . cluck clock cockadoodle do LOL

As always the Faithfull Creator must do the "first work". . our first love hearing and believing. As many that can receive them to to them he gave the power to to move to do His will. Those in whom he has not given power cannot come . They taste it but fall away. Trusting their own corrupted flesh (dead faith) .

They have no power working in them, with them to both will and do the good pleasure of God not seen. Some murmur and demand some sort of pride as self-edification.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

You guys can slice, dice, embellish, twist and deny all you want....but make no mistake...Calvin is exactly what you guys are selling and the credo/ideology that you guys are peddling is not scriptural.

Salvation is open to ALL regardless of the fact that only a few will believe!

 

[John146]

All of the scriptures must harmonize if we are to understand the truths that Jesus taught. Eph 2 plainly states that the natural man, at the time of his quickening, is spiritually dead, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14, and therefore, is in no position to accept things of the Spirit, such as a new spiritual life.

I guess king Agrippa was an exception.😀

 

[dcontroversal]

If God only chastens those that he loves, and your doctrine says that he loves all mankind that inhabits the whole world, then why does he not chasten them? Your doctrinal theory does not harmonize with all of the scriptures.

You are right about God not chastening those that are not his; Psalms 71:5 says that the wicked are not divinely punished (plagued) like other men. That is because he loves his elect children, and does not love the wicked that are not his elect.

Isaiah 65:9, And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains, and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Rom 9:11, The purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Conflating truths to try and end run the truth to peddle error is not a bright idea!

 

[dcontroversal]

I have told you before that I have never read Calvin's writings, and what I have been told about him, I do not agree with his interpretation of scriptures because there are some, that I have heard of, that do not harmonize with all scriptures.

Scripture proves scripture, and should be our only source of gleaning the truth of Christ's doctrine, with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

God has given mankind freedom to choose out his changes as he sojourns here on earth, but mankind's eternal destination is made by God's grace, without the help of mankind.

God does not predetermine mankind's actions, however, he knows beforehand, what man will choose.

Mankind, by the freedom that God gave him to choose, chose not to seek God. By God's foreknowledge of what mankind would choose, is the reason that he chose an elect people before the foundation of the world.

Those same elect people are born into this world, by natural birth, without any spiritual knowledge until God quickens them to a new spiritual life, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

False....You were good in what you were saying until paragraph 3 and then over embellished paragraph 5........and the drivel in paragraph 3 is Calvinism.....and the bible does not teach that drivel. It is clear that the only pre-determined will of God in our election is that GOD pre-determined to elect ALL that to choose to believe in his son.

The bible does not teach the cultish view that God chose man A for heaven and man B thru Z for hell! That is as contrary as it comes, evil and straight from the pit of hell!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

1 cor 2 .14 mentions the ' natural man ' / carnal / babe . Not eph 2 so your mis quoting . Then you say ' at the time of his quickening is spiritually dead assuming that is what calvinism teaches about ' quickening ' and ' spiritually dead is the same as the biblical understanding. Then you reverse back to 1 cor 2.14 assuming its saying ' the unelect reprobate cannot believe the Gospel unless he is regenerated first' .

1 Cor 2:14 by inferring that he is a natural man does equate him as a carnal man, but nowhere in that verse does it mention "a babe in Christ".

When a preacher tells you about some scriptures and their meanings, you should search the other scriptures pertaining to that subject to see if they harmonize with each other.

Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.

When we are first quickened to a new spiritual life, we are babes in Christ. We start our life off, just as a baby does, with the milk of the word. We grow gradually in our learning of the word, until we finally reach the maturity that we can digest the meat of the word (the doctrine of Jesus).

Most that are quickened to a spiritual life remain "babes in Christ" due to their slow spiritual growth. Few are chosen, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, to mature enough to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught. Many are called, but few chosen.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Conflating truths to try and end run the truth to peddle error is not a bright idea!

Pardon my stressing a point, but you seem to defend your biblical theory with derogatory remarks in all of your posts to me, instead of using scriptures against scripture to harmonize your theory. Why is that? Are you not secure in thinking scriptures will prove your biblical theory?

 

[garee]

You guys can slice, dice, embellish, twist and deny all you want....but make no mistake...Calvin is exactly what you guys are selling and the credo/ideology that you guys are peddling is not scriptural.



Salvation is open to ALL regardless of the fact that only a few will believe!

Calvin is dead. According to the proverbs we are to buy the truth of the gospel and not sell it short of the glory of God .He will not share his glory with corrupted dying flesh. Its why Jesus said His flesh profits for zero.

Its open to as many or a few of those he gives the power that works in then to both will and do His good pleasure. Some murmur and accuse dead men .

Philippians 2:13-15 King James Version (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

 

[ForestGreenCook]

False....You were good in what you were saying until paragraph 3 and then over embellished paragraph 5........and the drivel in paragraph 3 is Calvinism.....and the bible does not teach that drivel. It is clear that the only pre-determined will of God in our election is that GOD pre-determined to elect ALL that to choose to believe in his son.

The bible does not teach the cultish view that God chose man A for heaven and man B thru Z for hell! That is as contrary as it comes, evil and straight from the pit of hell!

You sure have a way with degrading words, but not much scriptural back up to go with them. Can't you try a little harder in that area?

I have forgotten who it was, but someone told me that you were the most learned person on this forum with the scriptures. How about using some of them to uphold your biblical theory.

 

[dcontroversal]

Calvin is dead. According to the proverbs we are to buy the truth of the gospel and not sell it short of the glory of God .He will not share his glory with corrupted dying flesh. Its why Jesus said His flesh profits for zero.

Its open to as many or a few of those he gives the power that works in then to both will and do His good pleasure. Some murmur and accuse dead men .

Philippians 2:13-15 King James Version (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Does not prove the Calvinogma you peddle....!

 

[dcontroversal]

You sure have a way with degrading words, but not much scriptural back up to go with them. Can't you try a little harder in that area?

I have forgotten who it was, but someone told me that you were the most learned person on this forum with the scriptures. How about using some of them to uphold your biblical theory.

I do daily......but what I have learned is simple...you guys (Calvinites, salvation losers, Cainologists and workers for) just trample it, twist it, skew it, deny it by your religion and then keep peddling the same Calvinite go to slogans and out of context scripture to peddle error.......

God would have ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.....Not just Calvinites.

 

[throughfaith]

1 Cor 2:14 by inferring that he is a natural man does equate him as a carnal man, but nowhere in that verse does it mention "a babe in Christ".

When a preacher tells you about some scriptures and their meanings, you should search the other scriptures pertaining to that subject to see if they harmonize with each other.

Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.

When we are first quickened to a new spiritual life, we are babes in Christ. We start our life off, just as a baby does, with the milk of the word. We grow gradually in our learning of the word, until we finally reach the maturity that we can digest the meat of the word (the doctrine of Jesus).

Most that are quickened to a spiritual life remain "babes in Christ" due to their slow spiritual growth. Few are chosen, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, to mature enough to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught. Many are called, but few chosen.

2.14 carries the same context right into chapter 3 ( the verses and chapter divisions are a modern addition ) Paul is talking about babes / natural/ carnal ' believer 'cannot understand the things of a mature nature . The wisdom Paul speaks amongst the spiritual/ mature / perfect. This is a ridiculous proof text calvinism teaches out of context to support Augustines gnosticism.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Calvin is dead. According to the proverbs we are to buy the truth of the gospel and not sell it short of the glory of God .He will not share his glory with corrupted dying flesh. Its why Jesus said His flesh profits for zero.

Its open to as many or a few of those he gives the power that works in then to both will and do His good pleasure. Some murmur and accuse dead men .

Philippians 2:13-15 King James Version (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Just curious! Do you concentrate on the things that you read and quote? The verse that you have quoted, says 'it is God which worketh in you, both to will, and to do of his good pleasure", and then you say "God cannot do his good pleasure, which is to eternally save all mankind because they will not accept him".

In actuality, It is the regenerated, spiritual, man/woman that God works in to will and do of his good pleasure, and not the natural man.

 

[garee]

Just curious! Do you concentrate on the things that you read and quote? The verse that you have quoted, says 'it is God which worketh in you, both to will, and to do of his good pleasure", and then you say "God cannot do his good pleasure, which is to eternally save all mankind because they will not accept him".

In actuality, It is the regenerated, spiritual, man/woman that God works in to will and do of his good pleasure, and not the natural man.

How did I say God cannot do his good pleasure.? If I did that would be turning things upside down. I think I am in agreement with you. After all we cannot make our own hearts soft. A new one must be created. As in all things he must do the first works.

Job 23:12-14 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

 

[throughfaith]

Just curious! Do you concentrate on the things that you read and quote? The verse that you have quoted, says 'it is God which worketh in you, both to will, and to do of his good pleasure", and then you say "God cannot do his good pleasure, which is to eternally save all mankind because they will not accept him".

In actuality, It is the regenerated, spiritual, man/woman that God works in to will and do of his good pleasure, and not the natural man.

Your sneaking that 'natural man 'in there again . There is nothing negative about ' natural 'in the bible ..Romans 1 says they exchanged the 'natural use '

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I do daily......but what I have learned is simple...you guys (Calvinites, salvation losers, Cainologists and workers for) just trample it, twist it, skew it, deny it by your religion and then keep peddling the same Calvinite go to slogans and out of context scripture to peddle error.......

God would have ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.....Not just Calvinites.

As learned as some people think that you are, I would assume that you do consult a Greek concordance. Saved, according to the Greek, means= delivered.

1 Tim 2:4, There is a deliverance, that is not eternal, but received as we sojourn here on earth, when a regenerated child of God comes unto the knowledge of the truth.

In Gen 33:28 God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel. Thereafter when Israel is mentioned in the scriptures, it has reference to Jacob most of the time.

Rom 9:11, That the purpose of God, according to election might stand. verse 13, As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect.

Rom 10:1-3, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel/Jacob is, that they might be delivered (saved). For I bear them record that they "have a zeal of God" (indicating that they are regenerated), but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Rom 9:6, For they are not all Israel (Jacob), which are of Israel (nation).

Rom 11;26-28, And so all Israel/Jacob shall be saved; as it is written, there shall come out of Sion the deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob/Israel. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes; but as touching the election, they are beloved for the Father's sakes.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John 3:16

World of believers, They cannot hear and believe unless they are already his sheep (regenerated).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I guess king Agrippa was an exception.😀

King Agrippa was not quickened to believe in the things of the Spirit.

 

[John146]

King Agrippa was not quickened to believe in the things of the Spirit.

You claim that those without the Spirit cannot understand spiritual things. King Agrippa understood spiritual things, in particular, things concerning the Jewish Messiah in the OT.

25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.
26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

 

[EleventhHour]

World of believers, They cannot hear and believe unless they are already his sheep (regenerated).

I see read one word "WORLD"

Only someone with presuppositions needs to change the words of scripture.

I think the onus is on you to defend changing the very words of God... are you his editor?