My take on water baptism...
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L
this is what you said, what I responded to:
now you say this:
so you were originally talking about Paul but you backpedal and state you meant James and the elders
you say this after I put Acts 21:20 in context and showed it did not support your position
I'm not trying to be right. I'm trying to get scripture right
anyway, Paul was not teaching the law and he was not sent to the Jews but he understood their position but he did not want them putting burdens on new Gentile converts
that's the basic break down
now you say this:
so you were originally talking about Paul but you backpedal and state you meant James and the elders
you say this after I put Acts 21:20 in context and showed it did not support your position
I'm not trying to be right. I'm trying to get scripture right
anyway, Paul was not teaching the law and he was not sent to the Jews but he understood their position but he did not want them putting burdens on new Gentile converts
that's the basic break down
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Obviously the moment Paul was saved, thru that blinding light, the mystery had yet to be revealed to him correct?
As far as everyone is present at that time, water baptism was still required.
The revelation of the mystery was only given to Paul later. My view is that it was revealed during the years Paul spent in Arabia (Galatians 1:17)
As far as everyone is present at that time, water baptism was still required.
The revelation of the mystery was only given to Paul later. My view is that it was revealed during the years Paul spent in Arabia (Galatians 1:17)
I think it should be done in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. It's a gift that all three divine persons cooperated in giving.
The Son ascended to the Father and asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit completed the Baptism of the Church at Pentecost having been sent from the Father and the Son.
The Son ascended to the Father and asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit completed the Baptism of the Church at Pentecost having been sent from the Father and the Son.
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well because in the same place that Paul says he was sent not to baptize but to preach "the gospel" ((singular)), he says that he baptized several of the households in Corinth - but that he really can't even remember who he baptized and who he didn't.
when did Paul first get to Corinth?
what's he doing baptizing people there?
do you reckon Paul preached a different gospel when he first came to them than he did in his letters to them later?
the point being, his purpose was to bring the message of God's Salvation. baptizing is secondary to that: the baptism doesn't save anyone, faith in the work of Christ does. but this doesn't exclude baptism, it just means baptism isn't the point. he's not going around preaching baptism any more than he is preaching the Lord's supper -- however he's compelling everyone who believes to do both because of their saving faith.
the whole 'don't be baptized, baptism doesn't save' attitude here is little different from saying 'don't do any good works, your works don't save you'
Paul isn't preaching works, he's preaching Christ. that doesn't exclude works, and i bet just as Paul couldn't remember who he's baptized and who he hasn't, he probably couldn't remember every good deed he'd done. because baptizing and doing righteous acts isn't the gospel -- they are the answer of a good conscious toward God upon hearing and believing the gospel.
when did Paul first get to Corinth?
what's he doing baptizing people there?
do you reckon Paul preached a different gospel when he first came to them than he did in his letters to them later?
the point being, his purpose was to bring the message of God's Salvation. baptizing is secondary to that: the baptism doesn't save anyone, faith in the work of Christ does. but this doesn't exclude baptism, it just means baptism isn't the point. he's not going around preaching baptism any more than he is preaching the Lord's supper -- however he's compelling everyone who believes to do both because of their saving faith.
the whole 'don't be baptized, baptism doesn't save' attitude here is little different from saying 'don't do any good works, your works don't save you'
Paul isn't preaching works, he's preaching Christ. that doesn't exclude works, and i bet just as Paul couldn't remember who he's baptized and who he hasn't, he probably couldn't remember every good deed he'd done. because baptizing and doing righteous acts isn't the gospel -- they are the answer of a good conscious toward God upon hearing and believing the gospel.
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here:
apparently when Paul first came to Corinth, he preached and he also baptized in water those who believed. then, when Silas & Timothy came to help him minister & build the church, those two took over the 'functionary' aspects of the ministry and Paul 'devoted himself exclusively to preaching'
this does not mean water baptism stopped being performed -- nowhere is it ever spoken against in scripture. it means Paul was more useful as a preacher, that faith comes through hearing the word of God, so once he had help to baptize and shepherd those being brought in, the workload was divvied up & Paul simply stopped being the one doing the baptizing, so he could do more preaching.
when you hire someone to work the register so your best cook can stay in the kitchen full-time, it doesn't mean you stop taking payment for the food.
After this, Paul left Athens and went to Corinth. There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.
(Acts 18:1-6)
compare with 1 Corinthians 1:13-18 apparently when Paul first came to Corinth, he preached and he also baptized in water those who believed. then, when Silas & Timothy came to help him minister & build the church, those two took over the 'functionary' aspects of the ministry and Paul 'devoted himself exclusively to preaching'
this does not mean water baptism stopped being performed -- nowhere is it ever spoken against in scripture. it means Paul was more useful as a preacher, that faith comes through hearing the word of God, so once he had help to baptize and shepherd those being brought in, the workload was divvied up & Paul simply stopped being the one doing the baptizing, so he could do more preaching.
when you hire someone to work the register so your best cook can stay in the kitchen full-time, it doesn't mean you stop taking payment for the food.
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Paul is focused on preaching the message of reconcilation, as found in 2 Cor 5:11-21, and he has given us that same ministry.
That gets people saved. If people asked me "But what about water baptism?", my answer would be "That is not necessary at all to be reconciled with God. It is not a sin if you still want to do it."
That gets people saved. If people asked me "But what about water baptism?", my answer would be "That is not necessary at all to be reconciled with God. It is not a sin if you still want to do it."
I Believe that Baptism done properly, guarantees that God will wash all our sins away and Grant the Grace to conform our lives to the pattern of Christ's death.
It initiates life in Christ.
Thanks for asking. Feel free to let me know if I misunderstood the question.
May the Lord continue to bless you.
It initiates life in Christ.
Thanks for asking. Feel free to let me know if I misunderstood the question.
May the Lord continue to bless you.
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E
Exodus 19:5-6
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Yes, all the Jews are expected to be priests to spread the good news to gentile nations, once Jesus return for Israel after Daniel 70th week.
That was why Jesus spoke Mark 16:16 emphasizing that Israel needed to believe and be water baptized to be saved.
When Jesus return for Israel, Zechariah 8 tells us the role of all the Jews.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Yes, all the Jews are expected to be priests to spread the good news to gentile nations, once Jesus return for Israel after Daniel 70th week.
That was why Jesus spoke Mark 16:16 emphasizing that Israel needed to believe and be water baptized to be saved.
When Jesus return for Israel, Zechariah 8 tells us the role of all the Jews.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
E
Why do you think this?
Both Titus 3 and Col 2 state our washing, or as Paul Called it a spiritual circumcision, is performed by the HS. Not by some man in water
The water baptism is a command
Given for newly Converted disciples to obey As in Matt 28. (Baptize then) it is the spiritual Circumcision Jesus spoke of which saves
Both Titus 3 and Col 2 state our washing, or as Paul Called it a spiritual circumcision, is performed by the HS. Not by some man in water
The water baptism is a command
Given for newly Converted disciples to obey As in Matt 28. (Baptize then) it is the spiritual Circumcision Jesus spoke of which saves