The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

[eternally-gratefull]

I politely asked for your opinion, but you avoided the question?

Lol

whatever dude.

i already told you I understood it, then you made The statement you assume I did not understand it

politely? Not even close.

 

[throughfaith]

I could care less

if they think they must endure to the end, they are in fact trying to earn their salvation

they do not believe this, as a true calvinist just explained, a true saint will persevere, he has no change ever of losing salvation there is nothing he could do to begin with

Thank you for making my point again . Yes a calvinist believes a ' true Saint ' will persevere and because he believes Election is to salvation rather than what the bible says that it is always to service or calling.The issue is He has to look to his works / enduring to the end and perseverance to know if he is one of the frozen chosen . Aka ' Lordship salvation ' Round and round we go .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I politely asked for your opinion, but you avoided the question?

Oh hey, while we are assuming things? Can I assume you think a person who has left the church lives in sin and denies Christ was actually saved at one point?

of course I would, Not make an assumption because that would make me arrogant also, i know what I do when I assume things.

 

[EleventhHour]

Thank you for making my point again . Yes a calvinist believes a ' true Saint ' will persevere and because he believes Election is to salvation rather than what the bible says that it is always to service or calling.The issue is He has to look to his works / enduring to the end and perseverance to know if he is one of the frozen chosen . Aka ' Lordship salvation ' Round and round we go .

While I do agree perseverance of the saints is not the way to understand eternal security, do you agree salvation is secure?

 

[throughfaith]

Lol

whatever dude.

i already told you I understood it, then you made The statement you assume I did not understand it

politely? Not even close.

I kindly asked for your explanation of Election .

1 John 2: 19 is wrong? Did john say these antichrists did not endure to the end. or did he make a statement of fact, that people who claimed to be in the church, but has since left and now are antichrists (they do not believe in Christ and have returned the the world and lives as if he was never saved) was never of us

again, I believe this, am I a calvinist?

i would agree with them

it does not make me believe in lordship salvation or believe in calvinism, it makes me believe John knew what he was talking about

Thats not how a Calvinist reads 1 john 2.19

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for making my point again . Yes a calvinist believes a ' true Saint ' will persevere and because he believes Election is to salvation rather than what the bible says that it is always to service or calling.The issue is He has to look to his works / enduring to the end and perseverance to know if he is one of the frozen chosen . Aka ' Lordship salvation ' Round and round we go .

No calvinist looks to his works, thus you are bearing false witness against them

they may questions someone else’s salvation, if they see them no longer believing in Christ and claim they were never saved

but as you had to have read by now, they would never think this about themselves to worry about it

i believe the same thing, that eternal life is eternal, and no saint will lose salvatiom

yeah round round we go you think you have it all figured out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I kindly asked for your explanation of Election .
Thats not how a Calvinist reads 1 john 2.19

Do tell

@Grandpa, can you please show me what 1 John 2 means,, this person thinks you mean otherwise, even though I have been to Numerous calvinist churches that say otherwise

 

[throughfaith]

While I do agree perseverance of the saints is not the way to understand eternal security, do you agree salvation is secure?

Yes based on the sealing of the Holy spirit which has no conditions and its duration is till the redemption of the body ( Ephesians 4.30 )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I kindly asked for your explanation of Election .
Thats not how a Calvinist reads 1 john 2.19

Our topic is not election it is lordship salvation and enduring to the end

please stick to the topic

 

[throughfaith]

No calvinist looks to his works, thus you are bearing false witness against them

they may questions someone else’s salvation, if they see them no longer believing in Christ and claim they were never saved

but as you had to have read by now, they would never think this about themselves to worry about it

i believe the same thing, that eternal life is eternal, and no saint will lose salvatiom

yeah round round we go you think you have it all figured out.

Why do Calvinists say ' Faith alone , but that faith is never alone ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes based on the sealing of the Holy spirit which has no conditions and its duration is till the redemption of the body ( Ephesians 4.30 )

Then you believe as they do

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes based on the sealing of the Holy spirit which has no conditions and its duration is till the redemption of the body ( Ephesians 4.30 )

Amen ... thank you.

The key difference >> no conditions.
Calvinism>>> performance must prove

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do Calvinists say ' Faith alone , but that faith is never alone ?

I say it

again does that make me calvinist?

how many times do I have to repeat this same thing? you keep askimg the same questions of what a calvinist says but most no calvinist grace believers would say the same thing

do You believe that faith can continue alone even after one is born again? And still be considered saving faith? Where the great men and women of faith I in the OT mentioned in Heb 11. Faith alone or did their faith and new creation cause them to act

 

[lenna]

I was involved in a lordship type pastor growing up, it was not prety, but it also was not a false gospel, what it did was place believers in fear. And take the focus of our Abba Father and place it on our King Father (an angry God vs a loving God). And it was meant to try to help people stop,sin, which was great, but sadly it never works, it made more people leave the church because who can live up to that standard? so you either have to hide your sin and judge others to make yourself feel good, or admit you can not live to this type of righteousness which approached sinlessness so why bother

you pretty much nailed it right there

seen that in play with pointing at others but it is a false peace IMO

 

[lenna]

So if a Calvinist
Every believer who holds to conditional salvation is by default holding to some form of Lordship salvation. Calvinisn does this by virtue of never really knowing if they are one of the frozen chosen . Puritans are famous for their uncertainty of salvation upon their death beds .

what?

You making this up? in all my exchanges with Calvinists in this forum never has one indicated they are in suspense about their salvation

do you not understand the word elect that they have on all their banners?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you pretty much nailed it right there

seen that in play with pointing at others but it is a false peace IMO

it Also led to a whole church where no one knew each other it was like you have your church life then your real life, it hurt my dad deeply as he bought into it,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what?

You making this up? in all my exchanges with Calvinists in this forum never has one indicated they are in suspense about their salvation

do you not understand the word elect that they have on all their banners?

I do not like the thought of double predestination, in fact I loath it, but it will not cause me to falsely accuse and belittle them because I hate a doctrine they stand for.

 

[throughfaith]

Our topic is not election it is lordship salvation and enduring to the end

please stick to the topic

I'm thinking I may

I say it

again does that make me calvinist?

how many times do I have to repeat this same thing? you keep askimg the same questions of what a calvinist says but most no calvinist grace believers would say the same thing

do You believe that faith can continue alone even after one is born again? And still be considered saving faith? Where the great men and women of faith I in the OT mentioned in Heb 11. Faith alone or did their faith and new creation cause them to act

I believe..And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. ( eph 4.30 ) I believe After we recieve Jesus John 1 .12 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: that we are presestined to the adoption . Rom 8.23 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[lenna]

I do not like the thought of double predestination, in fact I loath it, but it will not cause me to falsely accuse and belittle them because I hate a doctrine they stand for.

well I can understand why that happens sometimes

sometimes the doctrine seems very attached to the person presenting it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm thinking I may
I believe..And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. ( eph 4.30 ) I believe After we recieve Jesus John 1 .12 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: that we are presestined to the adoption . Rom 8.23 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So do you believe a person who claimed to receive him and claimed to be saved By faith will have some sort of works, or they can be hearers of the word and not doers and still be saved?