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The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists
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EleventhHour
Guest
Unless one has read John Calvin one may not know what John Calvin taught and what Calvinists' teach
John Piper when he writes, "Nevertheless, we must also own up to the fact that our final salvation is made contingent upon the subsequent obedience which comes from faith. The way these two truths fit together is that we are justified on the basis of our first act of faith because God sees in it (like he can see the tree in an acorn) the embryo of a life of faith. This is why those who do not lead a life of faith with its inevitable obedience simply bear witness to the fact that their first act of faith was not genuine."
John Piper and Pastoral Staff, What We Believe About the Five Points of Calvinism
John Piper when he writes, "Nevertheless, we must also own up to the fact that our final salvation is made contingent upon the subsequent obedience which comes from faith. The way these two truths fit together is that we are justified on the basis of our first act of faith because God sees in it (like he can see the tree in an acorn) the embryo of a life of faith. This is why those who do not lead a life of faith with its inevitable obedience simply bear witness to the fact that their first act of faith was not genuine."
John Piper and Pastoral Staff, What We Believe About the Five Points of Calvinism
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EleventhHour
Guest
@throughfaith you are right on.
One has to have read their works extensively to know what they teach.
Calvinism tries to disguise itself and sound like biblical doctrine but it is not.
Their teachers have much error.
One has to have read their works extensively to know what they teach.
Calvinism tries to disguise itself and sound like biblical doctrine but it is not.
Their teachers have much error.
Paul washer .
“What is repentance? Days and days of lectures could not tell you all that is in this word. But it is an important word and you are called to do it, and if you have not done it and do not continue doing it is the evidence that you have never known the Lord.”
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
It’s pretty sad I had to ignore a person I called my sister because I can not stand to watch her hate any more
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
So you are not going to admit you claimed they were teaching conditional salvation even though I quoted you saying those exact words?
let's go through this slowly . I think your reading what you want to see .
EVERY
Wow ! have you not read the part where I've talked about calvinists version of election ? why would I be saying in there that calvinists hold to conditional salvation ? I know calvinism perfectly well . I'm making the distinction between the two . I'm saying ( follow slowly ) Every believer who holds to conditional salvation ( type 1 ) holds to some form of Lordship salvation. ( I take for granted here everone knows that Calvinists do not hold to conditional so I don't feel the need to clarify . in light of your comment I should have done , just for you)
New category being introduced ( type 2 ) CALVINISM DOES THIS . does what ? Holds to Lordship salvation. by virtue of never really knowing if they are one of the frozen chosen .( Election . How could you have concluded that I'm saying ' conditional salvation here ? ) Puritans ( Puritains do not hold to conditional salvation , surely you know this ?? ) are famous for their uncertainty of salvation upon their death beds . Uncertainty due to doubting there election . I've made this point over and over in early posts which you have engaged in ?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Let’s look at reality
IF a calvinist believes in enduring to the end, they base their salvation on the CONDITION that they endure to the end.
it does not take a brain surgeon to see what you believe.
now you repost your words and add a lot to it, as if that’s what you really meant,
well if it is, then you should have said it
your STILL saying they base on the CONDITION they endure to the end, nothing you wrote in either post say otherwise
Do you understand the Doctrine of Election in Calvinism ? if so could you explain please? Just so I know we are on the same page ?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
We are not on the same page
you think a calvinist Thinks he must endure to the end, or they are not really saved
why do you not show me you understand what they believe? Because I am not seeing it
Do you agree that Calvinists believe that mat 24.13 is for the church age ,and not the Tribulation?
Ok can I take from that you do not understand 'Election ' according to Calvinism ?
1st Corinthians 15:23 says that "those who are Christ's" will be resurrected "when He comes". Since OWNERSHIP is not touched, every Christian and every Israelite (for they are His too) will be resurrected at His second coming (1st Thess.4:16; Dan.12:2). And so it is in the Parables. The Ten Virgins RISE together - the wise and the foolish (Matt.25:7). In Matthew 25:19 the unfaithful servant is "reckoned with" at the same time as the faithful.
Now to place the slovenly servants/Virgins on earth after judgement is not so easy. The diligent will be ruling Cities of the Gentiles (Lk.19:17-19). The Israelites will be restored to their Land and be ruled by David (Jer.30:9) and the Twelve Apostles (Matt.19:28; Lk.22:30). So where on earth will the unworthy Christians be. Here's the evidence - and you decide
- In Luke 12:58-59 a jail is threatened after judgment. See also Matthew 5:25-26
- In Matthew 18:34 some sort of jail is alluded to; "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him."
- In Matthew 24:51 the brutal servant will be with other living men - with hypocrites
- In Matthew 25:9 the foolish Virgins must go through a process that the wise ones did in their lifetimes - buying oil. "Those who sell" are obviously people who cause suffering
- In Matthew 25:30 it seems to be a banning from the presence of Christ. Zechariah 14:16 says that everyone must go up to Jerusalem annually to have audience with Jesus in the time after Armageddon. Could it be that they are banned from this?
- In Revelation 2.11 and 20:4 we have Christians (Church members) "hurt of the second death". The "Second Death" is used interchangeably with "perdition", and the Greek scholars tell us that "perdition" means "lack of well-being". That is, intense suffering of the body and soul (Matt.10:28). The word "hurt" indicates that the suffering is neither deadly nor permanent. It is not like the beast whose torment is forever. And Isaiah 66:24, although it talks of the New Earth, gives us some good information about the Second Death. It say that "we will LOOK UPON those in the second death". That means the men suffering are on earth.
- The last and probably most telling scriptures are found in Ezekiel 41 and 42. They concern the Temple that Christ will live in in Jerusalem after His return to Jerusalem. Now, this Temple reflects, in its construction, the finished work of Christ. There are some differences in layout and size to the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel. But there is one very scary addition to it. Attached to it is a Room called a "Gizrah". It is a room with no windows (always dark) in which all the Temple utensils that have become useless or marred are stored. Could this be a picture of those Christians who became "useless" for God's House and Kingdom? The significance is telling. They are right next to the House of God but may not partake of it, its prestige and its joys. They are right next to the source of "light" (Christ), but dwell in darkness.
Take some time to consider this.
God bless.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I could care less
if they think they must endure to the end, they are in fact trying to earn their salvation
they do not believe this, as a true calvinist just explained, a true saint will persevere, he has no change ever of losing salvation there is nothing he could do to begin with
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
By the way, to be clear, in this statement you must assume you understand it while I do not. that’s quite an arrogant assumption and again, your hurting your own case, and helping yourself to join your sister and a calvinist who acts the same way in my Troll bin
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EleventhHour
Guest
The issue is those who do not endure, they were never saved, however what is the litmus test, how much sin/error to make this judgement.
Our behavior never has and never will determine our salvation, Calvinists cannot come to grips with this truth.
Go ask a calvinist if person does not endure but falls away right at the end of his life if they were truly the 'elect '? You.ll hear 1 John .2.19 as quick as a flash .
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
1 John 2: 19 is wrong? Did john say these antichrists did not endure to the end. or did he make a statement of fact, that people who claimed to be in the church, but has since left and now are antichrists (they do not believe in Christ and have returned the the world and lives as if he was never saved) was never of us
again, I believe this, am I a calvinist?
i would agree with them
it does not make me believe in lordship salvation or believe in calvinism, it makes me believe John knew what he was talking about