The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

[eternally-gratefull]

I would argue that nearly all who teach conditional salvation , are preaching Lordship salvation essentially. I don't know many pentacostals who don't believe you can forfeit salvation . Most Methodists/ Pentecostal/ Charismatic/ teach you can lose salvation.

From what I gather lordship salvation does not think salvation can be lost it says if a person falls into deep sin and does Not repent They probably were never saved

 

[lenna]

From what I gather lordship salvation does not think salvation can be lost it says if a person falls into deep sin and does Not repent They probably were never saved

I read some of that article I linked to myself (on Macs site) and he even states Christians can fall into sin and sometime very deep sin

the emphasis seems to be on ACTING like you are saved, ie a changed life. he actually makes some good points but I continue to state that you cannot actually call Jesus Lord if you don't know all that entails and those in scripture who used the word Lord KNEW what it meant

they were God's chosen and had received the law etc. they understood what it meant. kind of useless to say we all know what it means when we clearly do not

shrugs. seems obvious to me

 

[throughfaith]

I was referring to the connection you made with tongues.

The issue becomes legalistic when you have the 'have 'and the 'have nots ' . Those that have the Gift and those that don't..Those that have apparently recieved the 'second blessing 'and those that haven't..

 

[throughfaith]

From what I gather lordship salvation does not think salvation can be lost it says if a person falls into deep sin and does Not repent They probably were never saved

I think its two sides of the same coin
. Calvinism ,its ' they were never saved .The other , its they lost it . either way you have to endure to the end .

 

[lenna]

The issue becomes legalistic when you have the 'have 'and the 'have nots ' . Those that have the Gift and those that don't..Those that have apparently recieved the 'second blessing 'and those that haven't..

another broad weeping generalization

having attended Pentecostal and Charismatic services I cannot agree with your statement. I found people encouraging to seek, not thinking they were better in some way

maybe just stick to what Lordship Salvation really is because it really is not everything

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think its two sides of the same coin
. Calvinism ,its ' they were never saved .The other , its they lost it . either way you have to endure to the end .

And you would be wrong

If you have to endure till the end salvation can be lost. Calvinist do not believe this

You may and this is fine. But to claim they believe it is wrong. You making an accusation which is based on what you think not on facts which is called bearing false witness

 

[throughfaith]

another broad weeping generalization

having attended Pentecostal and Charismatic services I cannot agree with your statement. I found people encouraging to seek, not thinking they were better in some way

maybe just stick to what Lordship Salvation really is because it really is not everything

My first churches were Pentecostal / charismatic and they held to intial evidence/ Acts 2.38 and conditional salvation...And all the elements of Lorship salvation .

 

[EleventhHour]

I think its two sides of the same coin
. Calvinism ,its ' they were never saved .The other , its they lost it . either way you have to endure to the end .

Calvinists will definitely state someone who does not endure was never saved, their high profile teachers make that very clear, and certain high profile person on here has stated it many times.

 

[throughfaith]

And you would be wrong

If you have to endure till the end salvation can be lost. Calvinist do not believe this

You may and this is fine. But to claim they believe it is wrong. You making an accusation which is based on what you think not on facts which is called bearing false witness

Your missing my point . They believe you have to endure to the end .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

another broad weeping generalization

having attended Pentecostal and Charismatic services I cannot agree with your statement. I found people encouraging to seek, not thinking they were better in some way

maybe just stick to what Lordship Salvation really is because it really is not everything

I think someone has a major issue with lordship salvation and wants to put everyone under it,

he forgets people who think salvation can be lost as much as claim themselves to be lord, because they believe in their own power they hold the key to maintain or lose salvation by what they do or do not do

lordship salvation does not claim this, it is basically a legalistic form of true believers who are trying to explain why a person who claimed to be gods fell into sin walked away and became and antichrist

oh wait, John tells us this in his epistle, it’s because they were never of us, Or they would have remained with us.

 

[EleventhHour]

Your missing my point . They believe you have to endure to the end .

Agree.. perseverance of the saints.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your missing my point . They believe you have to endure to the end .

NO THEY DO NOT

and I know your point, and I am telling you you are wrong

a calvinist thinks since they could never save themselves they can not unsave themself.

now some may think some odd stuff, but to make a blanket statement is just plainwrong

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agree.. perseverance of the saints.

Your hatred against calvin has blackened your heart to see what is really going on, So,that you basically agree with anyone who says anything anti calvin. I am really disappointed in you

 

[lenna]

My first churches were Pentecostal / charismatic and they held to intial evidence/ Acts 2.38 and conditional salvation...And all the elements of Lorship salvation .

huh

we obviously never bumped into each other

so you are just talking about churches you went to

so going back to what I said...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Perseverance of the saints.

ie. OSAS

ie eternal security

a saint will persever, thus he can never lose salvation because he will never lose faith.
this is not enduring to the end, or failing to endure to the end.

 

[lenna]

I think someone has a major issue with lordship salvation and wants to put everyone under it,

he forgets people who think salvation can be lost as much as claim themselves to be lord, because they believe in their own power they hold the key to maintain or lose salvation by what they do or do not do

lordship salvation does not claim this, it is basically a legalistic form of true believers who are trying to explain why a person who claimed to be gods fell into sin walked away and became and antichrist

oh wait, John tells us this in his epistle, it’s because they were never of us, Or they would have remained with us.

sounds reasonable

 

[eternally-gratefull]

sounds reasonable

I was involved in a lordship type pastor growing up, it was not prety, but it also was not a false gospel, what it did was place believers in fear. And take the focus of our Abba Father and place it on our King Father (an angry God vs a loving God). And it was meant to try to help people stop,sin, which was great, but sadly it never works, it made more people leave the church because who can live up to that standard? so you either have to hide your sin and judge others to make yourself feel good, or admit you can not live to this type of righteousness which approached sinlessness so why bother

 

[throughfaith]

NO THEY DO NOT

and I know your point, and I am telling you you are wrong

a calvinist thinks since they could never save themselves they can not unsave themself.

now some may think some odd stuff, but to make a blanket statement is just plainwrong

So if a Calvinist

huh

we obviously never bumped into each other

so you are just talking about churches you went to

so going back to what I said...

Every believer who holds to conditional salvation is by default holding to some form of Lordship salvation. Calvinisn does this by virtue of never really knowing if they are one of the frozen chosen . Puritans are famous for their uncertainty of salvation upon their death beds .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if a Calvinist
Every believer who holds to conditional salvation is by default holding to some form of Lordship salvation. Calvinisn does this by virtue of never really knowing if they are one of the frozen chosen . Puritans are famous for their uncertainty of salvation upon their death beds .

Dude your about to be placed into the troll bin

a calvinist does not believe in conditional salvation it goes against their very core

 

[throughfaith]

Dude your about to be placed into the troll bin

a calvinist does not believe in conditional salvation it goes against their very core

Have I said at anytime that Calvinists believe in conditional salvation? I don't think your actually reading my posts properly . Please post on here where I've said that?