My take on water baptism...

[fredoheaven]

Peter and the 11 understood "all the world/all nations" differently from you.

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

The 12 were determined to make sure that the nation Israel had to repent and believe that Jesus is the Messiah first, before all the other nations can be reached.

That is the timetable. And as far as the Acts account went, they never did manage to convince the nation leaders to do so. The entire Acts account tells us about the fall of the nation Israel.

Until the nation Israel accepted their Messiah, Peter reminded Cornelius that it was unlawful for them to keep company with gentiles. How then could they reach all nations when it was against their Law in the first place?

Those of us in the church today who are claiming they are following the Great Commission are not following it, as the 12 understood what it really meant. So don't kid yourself.

O we should never forget before Acts 8:1 there is Acts 1:8 that says "to the uttermost part of the earth". The proclamation of the gospel and the entire GC is to be obeyed by the apostles and the church as a whole.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

 

[Peterlag]

If you don't like to google, here is a link that contrast the 2 approaches

https://www.monergism.com/comparing-covenant-theology-and-dispensational-theology

Well, this is why I may be leaving this site soon because it appears I can't help the folks here if they think something was accomplished by Jesus dying. Because nothing is achieved by dying. Any stupid fool can die. The power is in the resurrection which is exactly why I teach about an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus... www.carb-fat.com/stephen.html

 

[fredoheaven]

A post from another guy...

Post 322 from Joseph1949

Water baptism is not a commandment. Actually Jesus explains it simply in Acts1:5...
John baptized with water, BUT YOU will be baptized in holy spirit. The (but) implies John did it this way, BUT you will be baptized this way. To be born again is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) Baptism is equated to receiving holy spirit within, it is trusting with the heart. The proof over and over again in the book of Acts is shown. When they were baptized, they manifested holy spirit by speaking in tongues. You don't see much of that in the church today.

Acts 1:5 is contrasting what John the Baptist's baptism which is unto repentance whereas the Spirit baptism as fulfillment of promise of the Holy Spirit to empower them of the gospel preaching and the entire GC. Matthew 28 is commission while acts 1 refers to promise. Acts 1 does not undermine Matthew 28 but rather strengthened them as in the many cases found in the book of Acts. While there is spiritual baptism, there is also water baptism preached and done by the Apostles including Paul.

 

[Sipsey]

Well, this is why I may be leaving this site soon because it appears I can't help the folks here if they think something was accomplished by Jesus dying. Because nothing is achieved by dying. Any stupid fool can die. The power is in the resurrection which is exactly why I teach about an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus... www.carb-fat.com/stephen.html

You seem to have a peculiar way with words. Do you see yourself as a type of martyr?

 

[oyster67]

You don't believe Mark 16:16 is legitimate?

It sure is, Mister G.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

It is also true that he who believeth is baptized in the spirit at the same time. It is also true that he who believeth and is baptized in Spirit and then goes and gets water baptized and then gets a footlong sub at Subway is still saved. Not really that complicated (unless, of course, you want it to be.)

Why do you go so far out of your way to try and convolute the pure and simple Gospel Message? What is your agenda?

 

[Blain]

I don't know what you're talking about. Who is Joseph?

Joseph1949? The guy you quoted and I in turn asked what you thought what he said meant did you not read who it was you were quoting?

 

[EternalFire]

Gospel means good news. Throughout the Scripture, there are many different good news that God announced to mankind.

What is the Gospel of the Kingdom means to you?

"That God may be all in all" (1 Cor. 15:28).

 

[Peterlag]

Joseph1949? The guy you quoted and I in turn asked what you thought what he said meant did you not read who it was you were quoting?

Oh okay so it's not the Joseph that became second in command of Egypt. So what do you want to know about Joseph1949? He seems to understand water baptism is not a doctrine of the New Testament.

 

[Peterlag]

You seem to have a peculiar way with words. Do you see yourself as a type of martyr?

Back on me. Not what I write about. But me personally. Others will read my response to you and accuse me of only talking about myself.

 

[Peterlag]

Acts 1:5 is contrasting what John the Baptist's baptism which is unto repentance whereas the Spirit baptism as fulfillment of promise of the Holy Spirit to empower them of the gospel preaching and the entire GC. Matthew 28 is commission while acts 1 refers to promise. Acts 1 does not undermine Matthew 28 but rather strengthened them as in the many cases found in the book of Acts. While there is spiritual baptism, there is also water baptism preached and done by the Apostles including Paul.

How about a few examples where Paul Baptized in water? Perhaps 1 or 2 done by the other Apostles? I will wait.

 

[oyster67]

Gospel means good news. Throughout the Scripture, there are many different good news that God announced to mankind.

What is the Gospel of the Kingdom means to you?

There is only one Way, one Truth, one Baptism, and One Gospel.

Ephesians
4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

The Good News is Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is not a subjective thing where everybody gets to pick their own favorite flavor.

 

[oyster67]

How about a few examples where Paul Baptized in water? Perhaps 1 or 2 done by the other Apostles? I will wait.

Not very long. Philip baptized with water.

 

[Scribe]

How about a few examples where Paul Baptized in water? Perhaps 1 or 2 done by the other Apostles? I will wait.

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

3Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[Scribe]

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

3Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

My guess is that a false teaching is being birthed from bad hermeneutics on Paul saying "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. "

I think they are interpreting it as Paul having a progressive revelation that brought him to a teaching that Baptism is not necessary and he learned it after he had baptized these that he named. But that is not what Paul is saying. The context it that he did not want them to think that he was baptizing people in his own name and drawing a following after himself out of vain motivation for a personal following. Which is what the false teachers who teach that baptism is not necessary are doing. They want a following of their unique "revolutionary" teaching and when they accomplish it it feeds their demonic pride.

Paul was simply making an argument that he himself had not even baptized many people in his ministry because that is not what God called him to spend his time doing. There were plenty of others that could baptize those who were daily converted and added to the church and he was devoting his time to preaching. I will most likely do the same, making baptisms a weekly common occurence during the worship time of the Sunday service shown on video overheads filmed from a separate baptismal room while the congregations is singing and worshiping and I will probably delegate it to others while I focus on preaching. This is something I think about doing when the day comes. I am still a few years away from planting a church or pastoring and existing church but I imagine things that I think I would like to see in a church and I think there are others that would like that kind of church. One that is trying to follow a more biblical pattern about baptism being done the same day of conversion.

I am seeing a patter in these false teachings about baptism in water not being taught in the New Testament. They are suggesting that Paul, Peter, Philip, all got it wrong, and that they stopped doing it as they got smarter. Probably the worst hermeneutic I have ever heard. I don't think anyone who loves the Word will feel comfortable with charging Paul and Peter of not being as knowledgable as they are with their no baptism revelation. It is a sign of a cult teaching mentality. "I have greater revelation than Peter, or Paul or Philip"

 

[Blain]

Oh okay so it's not the Joseph that became second in command of Egypt. So what do you want to know about Joseph1949? He seems to understand water baptism is not a doctrine of the New Testament.

I asked what you thought Joseph was saying when you quoted him in your own words, read what he said carefully because I think you are misunderstanding it

 

[Nehemiah6]

The latter implies that if you don't get baptized, it may not be certain that you are saved, which amounts to contradicting the former.

Since -- in the Bible -- all those who were saved were baptized, it would be fair to say that anyone refusing or objecting to baptism is not saved.

And anyone today who claims that Christian baptism is not a commandment of Christ makes Christ and the apostles liars.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:46-48)

 

[Scribe]

Well said!

Those who preach that water baptism doesn't save you but saved people get water baptized confuses the whole issue. The latter implies that if you don't get baptized, it may not be certain that you are saved, which amounts to contradicting the former.

The way you say it has a much clearer implication.

I think this principle applies to this topic...

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I think anyone who teaches that baptism in water is an exercise in futility and just something people do who don't know any better are not born again. They are not filled with the Holy Spirit and they are going to wake up in hell with eternal regret.

 

[Blain]

Oh okay so it's not the Joseph that became second in command of Egypt. So what do you want to know about Joseph1949? He seems to understand water baptism is not a doctrine of the New Testament.

This is what was posted
Water baptism is not a commandment. Actually Jesus explains it simply in Acts1:5...
John baptized with water, BUT YOU will be baptized in holy spirit. The (but) implies John did it this way, BUT you will be baptized this way. To be born again is to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) Baptism is equated to receiving holy spirit within, it is trusting with the heart. The proof over and over again in the book of Acts is shown. When they were baptized, they manifested holy spirit by speaking in tongues. You don't see much of that in the church today.
Now it isd possible that I am the one who misunderstood but from what you quoted from him it seems he also believes that water baptism ins't what saves however from what I gather there isn't anything in this that says it is not biblical either

 

[Scribe]

How about a few examples where Paul Baptized in water? Perhaps 1 or 2 done by the other Apostles? I will wait.

Ok so you were given scriptures showing how Paul baptized some people in water, Peter baptized in water, Philip baptized in water already in previous answers to your false teaching but you are still asking the same questions as if none of those scriptures matter.

Actually you were so bold as to insinuate that when Peter asked who could forbid water so that they could be baptized in water that someone must have said "I forbid it" and so they did not baptize them in water... below are your words exactly...

Nobody used water in Acts 10:47. It was a question and the anweser must have been no because nobody used water in Acts 10:48. And Philip who was not a leader in the Church simply said yes to a guy who wanted to get wet. Water Baptism is not taught in any of the Church Epistles or by any Apostles.

So a deacon and an evangelist (he is called Philip the evangelist) is not a leader in the church? By who's standards?

Your explanation that water was not used when Peter asked for it is so whackadoodle that you are thoroughly exposed as willing to adulterate the scriptures that contradict your teaching.

Now the question is why would someone be opposed to the clear fundamental christian doctrine of baptism in water for repentance?

Do you also teach that people can live with their girlfriends and have sex without being married because they are married in the eyes of the Lord and don't need the government licence, blessing or confirmation of the church, an ordained minister or witnesses to a covenant?

These teachings about no need for water baptism have a root in looking for loopholes to hold on to the pleasures of sins.

 

[Guojing]

I think this principle applies to this topic...

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I think anyone who teaches that baptism in water is an exercise in futility and just something people do who don't know any better are not born again. They are not filled with the Holy Spirit and they are going to wake up in hell with eternal regret.

If you truly believe in that, have the confidence to state that you believed water baptism is necessary for salvation.