Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[Duskey]

So in order to come to God, the Father must draw the man first, correct?

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hmmmmmmmm.....

All kinds of men, right?

So sweet it needs repeated.

 

[Grandpa]

Most of the time the threshold Calvinists use to establish "proof" comes shy of actually proving the full extent of the doctrine.

Like with total depravity, it is Biblical to say all have sinned and that sin has made us all incapable of saving ourselves. Yet that's not what total inability teaches, so proving that is not enough. What you'd need to prove is that the imago dei was destroyed at the fall rendering men completely incapable of making a decision to follow God.

What does the Bible say?

The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps. (Proverbs 16:9)

And this is how it is for each of them, Bible proves depravity Calvinists make it total, Bible proves election Calvin makes it unconditional, Bible shows a sacrifice sufficient for the whole world Calvin limits it to the world of the elect, Bible proves grace Calvin twists it to irresistable.

The refutation can't be seen by Calvinists because they stretch verses and read them in an explicitly Calvinistic fashion truly believing their proof texts are proof.

You don't even need Calvinism to see the error in stating the opposite of what Calvinism teaches.

All you need is your bible and common sense.


The Sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for the whole world. But it is not APPLIED to the whole world. Otherwise everyone is atoned for and Salvation is not necessary. There is no wrath in order to judge the sinner.

So the Sacrifice of Christ is ABSOLUTELY limited to those who are Saved and those who will be Saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

See if your buddy Dcon agrees with you.

He put a like on your post.

He also said I was not being honest about what is being said here.

See if he changes his mind.

What he said was biblical.....unlike what you peddle....Hell was not made for man....but hey...you, your buddy and your mentor would have it be....I do not see the word man with a comma in the last phrase.....see this is bible 101....the Calvinist version is the second one.....

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for MEN, the devil, and his angels:

 

[Grandpa]

What he said was biblical.....unlike what you peddle....Hell was not made for man....but hey...you, your buddy and your mentor would have it be....I do not see the word man with a comma in the last phrase.....see this is bible 101....the Calvinist version is the second one.....

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for MEN, the devil, and his angels:

So everyone is already saved.

No need for preaching or even reading the bible.

Hell wasn't even made for men.

It was "unbiblical" for me to even insinuate that some people aren't saved.

 

[Duskey]

the Sacrifice of Christ is ABSOLUTELY limited to those who are Saved and those who will be Saved.

By grace through faith ~ Romans 10:9-10

 

[Bbrdrd]

You don't even need Calvinism to see the error in stating the opposite of what Calvinism teaches.

All you need is your bible and common sense.


The Sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for the whole world. But it is not APPLIED to the whole world. Otherwise everyone is atoned for and Salvation is not necessary. There is no wrath in order to judge the sinner.

So the Sacrifice of Christ is ABSOLUTELY limited to those who are Saved and those who will be Saved.

And you've just spoken out of both sides of your mouth.

If the sacrifice is sufficient, the provision was made for the sins of the whole world.

I agree it's limited, but the error is where and by what it is limited by. Calvinists are stuck making God the limiting force and proposing a dual will to God His revealed and hidden will.

But when the cord of total inability is snipped there is an easy explanation for the limitation of the application. Some refuse to accept Christ's offer.

 

[dcontroversal]

So everyone is already saved.

No need for preaching or even reading the bible.

Hell wasn't even made for men.

It was "unbiblical" for me to even insinuate that some people aren't saved.

See, that is every Calvinist's problem....seeing something NOT THERE and or HEARING SOMETHING NOT STATED....No honesty, no integrity and like every other false religion.....embellishing what we say, just like you do the bible.

The case is closed on Calvinism....a religion of embellishements and no honesty or integrity!

 

[Grandpa]

And you've just spoken out of both sides of your mouth.

If the sacrifice is sufficient, the provision was made for the sins of the whole world.

I agree it's limited, but the error is where and by what it is limited by. Calvinists are stuck making God the limiting force and proposing a dual will to God His revealed and hidden will.

But when the cord of total inability is snipped there is an easy explanation for the limitation of the application. Some refuse to accept Christ's offer.

So if that is the case then Salvation is absolutely by works and by merit.

It is men that must come to the Knowledge and gain the Wisdom to finally realize how depraved (uh-oh) they are and how much they need to depart from their own evil actions and come to Christ and ask for His Help.

But how can they gain this knowledge and wisdom if they don't even acknowledge that they are depraved to begin with?

And where does this Knowledge and Wisdom even come from?

 

[Grandpa]

See, that is every Calvinist's problem....seeing something NOT THERE and or HEARING SOMETHING NOT STATED....No honesty, no integrity and like every other false religion.....embellishing what we say, just like you do the bible.

The case is closed on Calvinism....a religion of embellishements and no honesty or integrity!

That is what you are saying. I just paraphrased.

Hell was not made for men. Everyone is already saved because Christ has drawn ALL men to Him.

Nice philosophy. But I don't think it will float.

 

[EleventhHour]

See, that is every Calvinist's problem....seeing something NOT THERE and or HEARING SOMETHING NOT STATED....No honesty, no integrity and like every other false religion.....embellishing what we say, just like you do the bible.

The case is closed on Calvinism....a religion of embellishements and no honesty or integrity!

Without fail...one of their strawman tactics.

 

[John146]

That is what you are saying. I just paraphrased.

Hell was not made for men. Everyone is already saved because Christ has drawn ALL men to Him.

Nice philosophy. But I don't think it will float.

Did God creat hell for man? Yes or no.

 

[dcontroversal]

Without fail...one of their strawman tactics.

100% agree....the same tactic of doubt with skewed words and embellished words the snake used in the garden....tells me exactly who is behind Calvinism!

 

[preacher4truth]

It's hilarious watching @dcontroversal mouthing incessantly, yet says absolutely nothing, has no substantiation, just callow slander and blatant unfamiliarity.

Which begs the question. He has self-proclaimed his deep deep theological study on cults (LOL!!!!) and lumps in Calvinism (LOL!!!) something he studied deeply at some podunk missionary Baptist "seminary" and this that he brings here is all he's got to show for it?

Yup.

Doesnt appear to me he's studied anywhere, but if that is the result? Well they either need to retrieve his "degree" or he needs to demand a refund. The kid is giving that "seminary" a really really bad reputation. This is what it turns out?

You can see they taught him to an expert level, can't you? A master on the subject, see all the documentation, substantiation, pithy arguments he brings, the exegesis, exposition, knowledge? Exactly, he doesn't bring any of that.

Apparently all he really learned were the words peddle, pal, hahaha, calvinite, dogma, migo and other blather. Once he learned those words he graduated?

Then he falsely claimed in blissful ignorance that Calvin coined TULIP? Lol!!! A theological amateur would know that came, um, after he died. That he in ignorance didnt know that little detail? Well, it shows he didn't study anything, it is one of the very most basic mistakes people make on Calvin, and obviously the "professor" who "taught" this alleged "cults" class didn't know what he's talking about. This shows he is inept exorbitant himself on that subject.

Knowing several professors I'm going to inquire with this school and ask it about the things this guys claims it teaches.

Learning to slander, libel, curse, yell, call names isn't an education at all, it shows ones unfamiliarity on the subject. Yet this juvenile pattern is witnessed on here daily. He brings nothing because, well, he has nothing to bring.

 

[Hevosmies]

So in order to come to God, the Father must draw the man first, correct?

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hmmmmmmmm.....

All kinds of men, right?

If John 12:32 does mean every single person, then everyone is saved, because everyone drawn will be saved:

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Same thing here:
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men means all men, condemnation came to everyone without us having to do anything, same thing with salvation, hey, it says all men!

I showed that not because im a universalist, but just to show that this simplistic "well it says all" argument can be used by anyone else too, as there are verses that say specifically His people or MANY (not all but MANY):

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Speaking of Jesus giving His life for the sheep. Now the response is well who are the sheep? Not the goats, sheep are the ones who believe many would say, right? Well that would be correct. Then the quesiton is, why wont people believe? Jesus tells us:

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So what Jesus said here is the OPPOSITE of what we are often told, we are told "You arent sheep because you dont believe." But Jesus said "You dont believe because you are not my sheep"

 

[Duskey]

So if that is the case then Salvation is absolutely by works and by merit.

It is men that must come to the Knowledge and gain the Wisdom to finally realize how depraved (uh-oh) they are and how much they need to depart from their own evil actions and come to Christ and ask for His Help.

But how can they gain this knowledge and wisdom if they don't even acknowledge that they are depraved to begin with?

And where does this Knowledge and Wisdom even come from?

I heard Jesus would forgive me and welcome me if I repented and placed my faith in Him. That’s not works and its not puppetry on God’s part. Upon hearing the Word I made a choice to believe and trust.

 

[dcontroversal]

So if that is the case then Salvation is absolutely by works and by merit.

It is men that must come to the Knowledge and gain the Wisdom to finally realize how depraved (uh-oh) they are and how much they need to depart from their own evil actions and come to Christ and ask for His Help.

But how can they gain this knowledge and wisdom if they don't even acknowledge that they are depraved to begin with?

And where does this Knowledge and Wisdom even come from?

Read Romans and embrace the truth over Calvin's error!

 

[Bbrdrd]

So if that is the case then Salvation is absolutely by works and by merit.

It is men that must come to the Knowledge and gain the Wisdom to finally realize how depraved (uh-oh) they are and how much they need to depart from their own evil actions and come to Christ and ask for His Help.

But how can they gain this knowledge and wisdom if they don't even acknowledge that they are depraved to begin with?

And where does this Knowledge and Wisdom even come from?

No works involved and not by merit because it comes from hearing, it's a response and recognition.

The knowledge of depravity comes from encountering God, just as Adam when he sinned knew his condition and sought to hide from God.

But salvation is not by knowledge or wisdom. And this is where Calvinism inflames pride because it teaches men that they've received a special knowledge from God that other men don't have and that this knowledge is an essential knowledge.

And again you conflate depravity with total depravity/inability. How about rather than arguing about how and where the atonement is limited you begin demonstrating total inability. And just to make it more difficult, do so without proof texting Isaiah 64:6 while ignoring 64:1-5, proof texting the 51st psalm while ignoring that it is poetry, proof texting Romans 3:10 while ignoring it is a quote of psalm 14 which speaks of an entire generation of righteous after that declaration.

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm nothing, is that what you said?

Answer the above @dcontroversal.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's hilarious watching @dcontroversal mouthing incessantly, yet says absolutely nothing, has no substantiation, just callow slander and blatant unfamiliarity.

Which begs the question. He has self-proclaimed his deep deep theological study on cults (LOL!!!!) and lumps in Calvinism (LOL!!!) something he studied deeply at some podunk missionary Baptist "seminary" and this that he brings here is all he's got to show for it?

Yup.

Doesnt appear to me he's studied anywhere, but if that is the result? Well they either need to retrieve his "degree" or he needs to demand a refund. The kid is giving that "seminary" a really really bad reputation. This is what it turns out?

You can see they taught him to an expert level, can't you? A master on the subject, see all the documentation, substantiation, pithy arguments he brings, the exegesis, exposition, knowledge? Exactly, he doesn't bring any of that.

Apparently all he really learned were the words peddle, pal, hahaha, calvinite, dogma, migo and other blather. Once he learned those words he graduated?

Then he falsely claimed in blissful ignorance that Calvin coined TULIP? Lol!!! A theological amateur would know that came, um, after he died. That he in ignorance didnt know that little detail? Well, it shows he didn't study anything, it is one of the very most basic mistakes people make on Calvin, and obviously the "professor" who "taught" this alleged "cults" class didn't know what he's talking about. This shows he is inept exorbitant himself on that subject.

Knowing several professors I'm going to inquire with this school and ask it about the things this guys claims it teaches.

Learning to slander, libel, curse, yell, call names isn't an education at all, it shows ones unfamiliarity on the subject. Yet this juvenile pattern is witnessed on here daily. He brings nothing because, well, he has nothing to bring.

Yawnnnnn Like normal....nothing you say = anything of value.....I guess your disciple is losing the religious argument so you write a long winded pamplet of accusation while playing the hypocrite and doing exactly what you accuse of.....hahahha dude you are a joke.....and anyone that follows your lead.....I feel sorry for them!

 

[preacher4truth]

Yawnnnnn Like normal....nothing you say = anything of value.....I guess your disciple is losing the religious argument so you write a long winded pamplet of accusation while playing the hypocrite and doing exactly what you accuse of.....hahahha dude you are a joke.....and anyone that follows your lead.....I feel sorry for them!

You've proven my point, you bring nothing because you have nothing to bring.