It's a proclamation (in a similar way that taking the bread & wine is), to show that the Believer's old life is now dead and they are raised to a new life in Christ (born again).
God, what's Water Baptism for?
- Thread starter Lafftur
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Do you agree that there is still a nation Israel that Jesus will come back for at the end of the Tribulation, aka Romans 11:25-29?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
God is currently an enemy to the nation Israel, I agree with you there. But its only for a season.
As far as the end of the ribulation goes I cannot say but I do believe that it is only for a period of time they are his enemies, regardless of their state now he did in fact give them the covanent but I think this covanent is about salvation they rejected it and maybe they are like me maybe they have to learn things the hard way.
That is what the Tribulation is for, its also known as Jacob's trouble.
So the idea behind water baptism, as stated in the OT prophecies, is that the Jews were suppose to repent and be water baptized, so that the entire nation can be priests to deliver God's message to all the other nations of the world.
Zechariah spelt that out clearly in chapter 8.
But since Israel rejected their Messiah for the final time thru stoning Stephen, as Paul would explain in Romans 11, the nation has fallen. God revealed his plan to save the Gentiles thru the fall of Israel, a plan hidden in him since the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9)
In that plan, water baptism no longer has any role for us.
God is protecting and will protect Israel and will never break His covenant with her. He loves her and as you said He has a plan for her which is coming to pass before our very eyes and will continue to do so until the end.
Yes, that is true but Paul was clear in Romans 11:11 and Romans 11:28
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
The Holy Spirit was speaking thru Stephen, to all the leaders of Israel at Acts 7, and it was a very serious judgement
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Calling Israel uncircumcised was a very damning statement. As far as we have now, Israel is no longer God's favored nation.
But yes, you are right, God has not forgotten Israel, and will come back for them, because he had made an unconditional promise to their father Abraham in Romans 11
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
We (originally Gentlie believers) are grafted into the original olive tree (originally Jewish believers) and the two become one in Messiah
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pottersclay
Guest
Having a hard time seeing the water baptism as a covenant.
John baptised Jesus, he also baptised people before Jesus.
How could one enter in to a covenant without knowing Christ?
John said clearly he needed to be baptised of Jesus, but Jesus replied suffer it to be so now.
Just having a hard time understanding this. Would some one explain?
John baptised Jesus, he also baptised people before Jesus.
How could one enter in to a covenant without knowing Christ?
John said clearly he needed to be baptised of Jesus, but Jesus replied suffer it to be so now.
Just having a hard time understanding this. Would some one explain?
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pottersclay
Guest
I’m thinking that the old covenant was still in place and God accepted the blood of bulls and goats until the appointed time for the Lamb of God to be sacrificed.
There were many saved people before Messiah died and rose again.
Yes, but before that, concerning the gospel that was entrusted to Paul, God and Israel are enemies.
You cannot miss that.
Water baptism was to prepare Israel to accept their coming Messiah (Luke 3:4-6)
Its not a covenant.
God is no longer dealing with Israel as a nation during this current period.
From Genesis 12 all the way to Acts 7, Israel was God's favorite nation. So yes, a LOT of the Bible concerns that relationship.
It is true that when our Lord Jesus came He FIRST presented the Kingdom to Israel. The Covenant of Promise and all it held was for the "Seed of Abraham". But Israel refused it. By Matthew Chapter 12 our Lord had been fully rejected by Israel and called an emissary of Beelzebub. By Chapter 13 our Lord was teaching the Kingdom in Parables so that Israel did not understand. And then in Matthew 21:43 He ripped the Kingdom away from Israel and promised to give it to another people.
Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
Then, in His prophecy of the time of His return we see that the Kingdom is offered to all nations. Matthew 24:14; "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
Yes, there a number of churches who use this to urge their members to put themselves under the Great commission, because they use this verse to teach that Jesus won't come back until "all the world" is reached.
Are you saying the same thing?
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pottersclay
Guest
The Blood is for remission of sins
And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying: “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight. Every valley shall be filled And every mountain and hill brought low; The crooked places shall be made straight And the rough ways smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Luke 3:3