My take on water baptism...

[Peterlag]

This reveals gross ignorance of what is in the New Testament and how it is written (in order to promote your false doctrine). As I already pointed out Peter was obeying the commandment of the Lord in Acts 10 and literally commandment believers to be baptized. And so was Paul in Acts, as well as what he writes in 1 Corinthians.

Indeed Paul was so greatly convinced of the necessity for believer's baptism that he baptized a whole household AT MIDNIGHT (Acts 16). Then he explained the spiritual significance of baptism in Romans. But a doctrine does not have to be repeated in every book of the New Testament to establish its validity.

There is a thread on "by their fruits ye shall know them" applicable to false prophets and false teachers. You would be wise to see yourself there and repent of all your false teachings.

Water baptism is not a doctrine that belongs to the Church of God and this is why it's not taught in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians. In fact, it's not taught in any of the Epistles.

 

[Peterlag]

Water was used when a person requested to become a priest in the new order as part of the old (foundation) . Its why Jesus was baptized and then also did the work of applying water to new recruits as part of a ongoing ceremonial law .

Those who demanded a sign from Jesus making him into a circus seal. They are those who do seek after "lying wonders." Jesus called them a evil generation. No sign was given .They are shown as faithless. literalizing the spiritual understanding hid in parables. Making the 20/20 instruction below needed for rightly dividing parables without effect.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In affect worshiping shadows of the things to come and not the very unseen substance.

No faith, according to prophecy the gospel. Shadows of the unseen, eternal. Used as a parable which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service complete or perfect as pertaining to the conscience; they simply tasted of the good things to come.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

(no faith, not little, none coming from God )

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Water baptism is not a doctrine that belongs to the Church of God and this is why it's not taught in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians. In fact, it's not taught in any of the Epistles.

 

[Peterlag]

I was asking you a very simple question actually.

But I understand why you would decline to answer.

Water baptism is not a doctrine that belongs to the Church of God and this is why it's not taught in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians. In fact, it's not taught in any of the Epistles.

 

[Scribe]

Water baptism is not a doctrine that belongs to the Church of God and this is why it's not taught in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians. In fact, it's not taught in any of the Epistles.

Romans 6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Gal 3: 26
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Colossians 2
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

In fact it is a foundational truth that you can't change with your bogus statements. I am not sure why you would want to. Do you march to the beat of your own drum or do you belong to a cult that teaches these things and listens to you teach them?

 

[Lafftur]

Galatians 5:1-4
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We will fall from the understanding of the grace that is in Christ, and succumb to the doctrines and theories that are dictated by human conception if we seek justification by our own works. The concision was from those who taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.

There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.”

There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.

Oh Peter, there you go again....

Didn’t the Ethiopian eunuch ask Philip to WATER baptize him?

Phillip baptized a eunuch with water.

Acts 8:38
And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him

@Peterlag -

Stop using human reasoning to decide the validity of Water Baptism........human reasoning CANNOT understand the Mind, Heart, Plan and Purposes of God.....

So, how are we to understand? We have to have ears to hear what the the Holy Spirit is saying.

In humility, just simply ask God questions and the Holy Spirit will give us understanding.....

Here's how my conversation with God went.......

Me: So, Lord, please may the Holy Spirit help us to understand what Water Baptism is for........

God: What was circumcision for?

Me: A sign.

God: Could circumcision save anyone?

Me: No.

God: The same is true with Water Baptism - it's a sign of covenant but, it cannot save you.

Me: Lord, please tell me how is Water Baptism a sign of covenant?

God: Water Baptism is to be done in the presence of witnesses that you and I are entering into covenant. I promise to save you with My Son - Jesus Christ with His Blood and Body and I also promise to give you the Holy Spirit that raised Him from the dead; in return you promise to submit to My Will - the Father's Will and believe on the ONLY Savior I have given you, My Son - My Lamb and receive the gift of My Holy Spirit.

In Water Baptism, the person believes and confesses My Son - Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and King. They are placed in My Hands ("into Your Hands, Father I commit my Spirit..."). A sign of total submission to God The Father. In My Hands the person is totally submerged under the water as a sign of being buried with My Son and when the person comes up out of the water, they are raised to new life by the power of God The Holy Spirit - the same Spirit that raised My Son from the dead.

Water Baptism is the sign of the New Covenant God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit has made with Man. Man is to be ONE with God in the Kingdom of Heaven that is coming.

Me: Thank You, for giving us understanding. Truly, we know NOTHING unless You, by Your Holy Spirit give us understanding. Thank You, Father.

Whoever has an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying......amen.

 

[posthuman]

Pete, i asked what your justification is for asserting that Acts 10:48 is not H2O baptism, given that Acts 10:47 is explicitly H20 baptism, explicitly says thy have already been immersed in the Holy Spirit, and the two verses are literally all one sentence?

you answered:

Water baptism is not a doctrine that belongs to the Church of God and this is why it's not taught in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians. In fact, it's not taught in any of the Epistles.

so you are confessing that you have no justification for your statement about Acts 10:47-48, is this correct?
that your view on it is 100% eisegesis?




i really don't want to join with those who are belittling you. i don't want to be antagonistic to your harm. but i really don't see any way around you being quite wrong in your interpretation of this passage. the language here isn't ambiguous; Simon Peter is the authority in the room at Cornelius' house, and he's clearly expressing that no one has any legitimate right to refuse to allow these Gentiles to be immersed in H20 on account of the fact that they have already been approved by God by clear sign of their being baptized by the Holy Spirit. he clearly speaks of H20 baptism, then commands that all these who are baptized in the Holy Spirit already, to be baptized. that has to be H2O baptism the apostle is commanding.

don't get me wrong, Peter. i believe H2O baptism is not necessary. i have argued very strongly against it in the past, in the first years of my being on this forum -- a man in a desert or outer space all alone with no water and no one to immerse him in it or sprinkle him with it can receive the gospel and be saved. he does not have to do any works, he does not have to take communion, he does not have to attend a congregation, he does not have to give offerings, he does not have to be baptized. the only thing strictly necessary for salvation is faith in Christ Jesus. but until you convince me otherwise, Acts 10 is definitely an example of H2O baptism being commanded to be carried out by the apostles, after Pentecost.

 

[Lafftur]

Pete, i asked what your justification is for asserting that Acts 10:48 is not H2O baptism, given that Acts 10:47 is explicitly H20 baptism, explicitly says thy have already been immersed in the Holy Spirit, and the two verses are literally all one sentence?

you answered:



so you are confessing that you have no justification for your statement about Acts 10:47-48, is this correct?
that your view on it is 100% eisegesis?




i really don't want to join with those who are belittling you. i don't want to be antagonistic to your harm. but i really don't see any way around you being quite wrong in your interpretation of this passage. the language here isn't ambiguous; Simon Peter is the authority in the room at Cornelius' house, and he's clearly expressing that no one has any legitimate right to refuse to allow these Gentiles to be immersed in H20 on account of the fact that they have already been approved by God by clear sign of their being baptized by the Holy Spirit. he clearly speaks of H20 baptism, then commands that all these who are baptized in the Holy Spirit already, to be baptized. that has to be H2O baptism the apostle is commanding.

don't get me wrong, Peter. i believe H2O baptism is not necessary. i have argued very strongly against it in the past, in the first years of my being on this forum -- a man in a desert or outer space all alone with no water and no one to immerse him in it or sprinkle him with it can receive the gospel and be saved. he does not have to do any works, he does not have to take communion, he does not have to attend a congregation, he does not have to give offerings, he does not have to be baptized. the only thing strictly necessary for salvation is faith in Christ Jesus. but until you convince me otherwise, Acts 10 is definitely an example of H2O baptism being commanded to be carried out by the apostles, after Pentecost.

Great post @posthuman!

I agree, Acts 10 was both Baptism with Holy Spirit and Water Baptism.

Water Baptism does not save us but, it is a sign of covenant. Just like circumcision does not save, it was just a sign of covenant.

 

[Guojing]

What is so complex about recognizing that the gospel of John - just like Matthew, Mark & Luke - testifies of Christ's death, burial and resurrection?

Yes, but as Peter preached to Israel in acts, they testified that Jesus was indeed the son of God acts 2:36

 

[Guojing]

Water baptism is not a doctrine that belongs to the Church of God and this is why it's not taught in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians. In fact, it's not taught in any of the Epistles.

As I have said, numerous Churches used the great commission found in Matt 28 as the foundation for their existence

And because that passage emphasise water baptism, they naturally hold that to be truth

 

[posthuman]

Yes, but as Peter preached to Israel in acts, they testified that Jesus was indeed the son of God acts 2:36

did they ever stop testifying that Jesus is the Son of God? to Jew and Gentile alike, that He is the God of both the Jew and the Greek and the Barbarian also? and once it had happened - also that He died for all of them, then rose, and that we may enter His kingdom through faith? that it is at hand, therefore repent!?

 

[Guojing]

did they ever stop testifying that Jesus is the Son of God? to Jew and Gentile alike, that He is the God of both the Jew and the Greek and the Barbarian also? and once it had happened - also that He died for all of them, then rose, and that we may enter His kingdom through faith? that it is at hand, therefore repent!?

I never said they stopped

My point was that the gospel of the kingdom does not require any of them to believe 1 cor 15:1-4, to be saved

They need to believe that Jesus is the son of God, and be water baptised. The latter is the condition for all the Jews to be priests of that kingdom

Because Churches don’t distinguish between Paul and the other apostles, we think that latter also apply to us now

 

[49]

I do not plan to preach baptism. That would be a mistake. We are to preach Jesus, and the message of the cross and resurrection. Then when people are "saved" by believing which includes Repentance toward God and Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, they should be baptized and then one can emphasize the meaning of the act of faith which is baptism and how the convert is confessing that they believe they have had their sins washed away by the Blood of Christ already, and that they are buried with Christ already, their old life and old man dead with Christ and as they come out of the water they are raised to new life with Christ and they are confessing that they believe they will be resurrected physically literally in the future just like the bible promises.

Amen to this!!!!

 

[Guojing]

Amen to this!!!!

I will preached 2 Cor 5:11-21, which is the great commission for the Body of Christ, and not Matthew 28.

Then when people inevitably ask you "What about water baptism", you just need to reply "2 Cor 5:11-21 made no mention about water baptism." It does not add to your reconciliation to God in any way.

 

[Runningman]

Romans 6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Gal 3: 26
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Colossians 2
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

In fact it is a foundational truth that you can't change with your bogus statements. I am not sure why you would want to. Do you march to the beat of your own drum or do you belong to a cult that teaches these things and listens to you teach them?

Which one of those passages are about water baptism?

 

[49]

Not going to learn without asking, so here goes...what other way is their for man to baptize? John the Baptist baptized with water, and Jesus Himself was baptized with water.
Thanks.

 

[Blain]

Not going to learn without asking, so here goes...what other way is their for man to baptize? John the Baptist baptized with water, and Jesus Himself was baptized with water.
Thanks.

I have heard of some people having water being gently poured on their heads but I don't know if that is legit way to be baptized I know that is how oil was poured on peoples head for anointing

 

[Nehemiah6]

Which one of those passages are about water baptism?

Romans 6 and Colossians 2 are about water baptism. Baptism in the New Testament means baptism by IMMERSION. That is the primary meaning of the Greek word baptizo.

The one who is being baptized is *buried* in water, and then raised up out of the water. This signifies (1) the believer's full identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and (2) the sinner's death to the old life and *resurrection* into newness of life. Early Christians would renounce the world, the flesh, and the devil at their baptism. This would still be valid.

There are too many who simply do not understand THE POWER of Christian baptism. And then there those false teachers who teach that Christian baptism is no longer necessary.

1. Water baptism does not wash away sins, but confirms that sins have been washed away by the blood of the Lamb.

2. Water baptism does not save, but confirms that the person being baptized is already saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.

3. Water baptism does not confer the gift of the Holy Spirit, but confirms that the believer has already received the gift of the Spirit.

4. Water baptism does not produce the New Birth, but confirms that the sinner has been born again and become a child of God.

 

[Cor]

Galatians 5:1-4
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We will fall from the understanding of the grace that is in Christ, and succumb to the doctrines and theories that are dictated by human conception if we seek justification by our own works. The concision was from those who taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.

There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.”

There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.

Why did the Eunich by Philip want to be baptized?

 

[Cor]

Romans 6 and Colossians 2 are about water baptism. Baptism in the New Testament means baptism by IMMERSION. That is the primary meaning of the Greek word baptizo.

The one who is being baptized is *buried* in water, and then raised up out of the water. This signifies (1) the believer's full identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and (2) the sinner's death to the old life and *resurrection* into newness of life. Early Christians would renounce the world, the flesh, and the devil at their baptism. This would still be valid.

There are too many who simply do not understand THE POWER of Christian baptism. And then there those false teachers who teach that Christian baptism is no longer necessary.

1. Water baptism does not wash away sins, but confirms that sins have been washed away by the blood of the Lamb.

2. Water baptism does not save, but confirms that the person being baptized is already saved by God's grace through faith in Christ.

3. Water baptism does not confer the gift of the Holy Spirit, but confirms that the believer has already received the gift of the Spirit.

4. Water baptism does not produce the New Birth, but confirms that the sinner has been born again and become a child of God.

I don't know if I would call them false teachers because they do not see it your way..

 

[Peterlag]

Why did the Eunich by Philip want to be baptized?

Don't know. What I do know is the Eunich was a Christian for 10 seconds. Do you think in 10 seconds that he was now an expert on Church doctrine?