My take on water baptism...

[Nehemiah6]

According to John, what must we believe about Jesus to have life? According to Paul, what must we believe about Jesus to be saved? What does the 2 passages say?

What Christians must do is harmonize ALL the passages, and then get the full picture: (1) what did Jesus Himself say, (2) what did Peter says, (3) what did John say, (4) what did James say, and then (4) what did Paul say. They will never contradict each other but they will provide every aspect of the Gospel.

 

[posthuman]

I could be wrong but I remember reading about it many years ago and that the consensus by most commentators was that what John was doing was not like any of the ceremonial washings they were used to at that time. It was a unique kind of baptism.

one thing is that in Leviticus 17:15-16 ((just to keep using the same example i had mentioned earlier)) a person immersed themselves -- but in John's baptism, they were being immersed - someone else was doing the immersing. a thing received rather than performed

 

[posthuman]

I am saying the gospel that saves today is not John 20:31 but 1 Cor 15:1-4.

all the things in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 are written in John's gospel. they are part of the "these were written" that is in John 20:31

both are informing us that Christ is God -- that is John's primary purpose throughout his book. both John and Paul are relating what Jesus Himself said in John 11:25-26. this is the faith that saves, from the beginning to the end, to the Jew and also the Gentile.

if you have 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 but you do not believe Christ is the Son of God, that He is I AM manifest in the flesh, so what that a mere man, even a good man, died in your place? does that save you? so John, who wrote this some time after the synoptic gospels were written, concentrates on demonstrating the deity of Christ - and records that He died for our sins and was resurrected in order that we might have life, that by believing on Him we will be saved.

this is not a 'different gospel'
John 20:31 = 1 Cor 15:1-4 = John 11:25-26 = 2 Peter 1:3-4 = Proverbs 30:4

 

[Peterlag]

Someone mentioned can we forbid water in Acts 10:47. The answer must have been yes we can forbid it because they did not baptist in water in verse 48. Your grasping at straws.

The only question in Acts 10:47 was should we use water and the answer must have been no because Peter did not use water in the next verse. Now tell me more about this Philip? Was he an apostle? Um, was he a writer for the church doctrine? Is something considered a rule if two people do it? You guys got nothing because there's no place in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians where water baptism was taught. Nowhere.

 

[Guojing]

What Christians must do is harmonize ALL the passages, and then get the full picture: (1) what did Jesus Himself say, (2) what did Peter says, (3) what did John say, (4) what did James say, and then (4) what did Paul say. They will never contradict each other but they will provide every aspect of the Gospel.

I was asking you a very simple question actually.

But I understand why you would decline to answer.

 

[Guojing]

all the things in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 are written in John's gospel. they are part of the "these were written" that is in John 20:31

both are informing us that Christ is God -- that is John's primary purpose throughout his book. both John and Paul are relating what Jesus Himself said in John 11:25-26. this is the faith that saves, from the beginning to the end, to the Jew and also the Gentile.

if you have 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 but you do not believe Christ is the Son of God, that He is I AM manifest in the flesh, so what that a mere man, even a good man, died in your place? does that save you? so John, who wrote this some time after the synoptic gospels were written, concentrates on demonstrating the deity of Christ - and records that He died for our sins and was resurrected in order that we might have life, that by believing on Him we will be saved.

this is not a 'different gospel'
John 20:31 = 1 Cor 15:1-4 = John 11:25-26 = 2 Peter 1:3-4 = Proverbs 30:4

Instead of making such a complex analysis, why not just read literally?

As I mentioned in that Long thread not by works, you cannot ever find John saying what Paul was teaching in 1 cor 15:1-4

To James Peter and John, eternal life is always something in the future. It is not something that we can have now.

It shows in the letters they wrote to Israel, that were placed together after Pauls letters

 

[posthuman]

To James Peter and John, eternal life is always something in the future. It is not something that we can have now.

Whoever believes in Me has ((present tense)) eternal life
- Jesus


Yeah why not read it literally?

 

[garee]

Ceremonial washings in the priesthood like washing their hands and arms etc before they did their service is not connected to the baptism in the river that John began. The levitical priests washings were not the same. The people that flocked by the multitudes to hear John heard him explain that it was for repentance and washing away sins in preparation for the messiah. That is what John preached and that is what they understood. He told them what it was about and they believed it thinking that he was a prophet, which he was and they listened to him and the teachings on repentance that is recorded that he gave. He told them what they should do in turning from sin specifically telling them things like not exacting more taxes than is due, telling the soldiers not to be corrupt, and all sorts of details like that, and preached about the coming messiah that would baptize them in the Holy Ghost and fire. Jesus came and his disciples continued preaching the same message Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Jesus preached the same message. Then Jesus sent his disciples to go into all the world and preach the same message. What Jesus taught the 12 to do was the same thing they were commissioned to do after his resurrection. However on the day of Pentecost they were baptized in the Holy Ghost empowered with the Holy Spirit gifts for ministry and yet still they baptized the three thousand converts that day in water, still preaching that believers are to be baptized. Baptism of repentance must not be skipped or it will result in half baked commitments that the devil will easily come along and snatch out of their hearts like seed on the wayside. WE are the ones that NEED the ceremonial baptism to help our FAITH. It is and ACT of FAITH not a work of the flesh. It is a blinded heart that cannot see that. We should be increasing baptisms today, if we would be doing what Jesus expects us to be busy doing in the light of His soon return.
Whenever I eventually plant a church or start pastoring one it is my heart to have baptism every Sunday morning during the worship time and video it on the big screen while people are singing. No other fan fare than that and hopefully there will be a candidate who has committed to Christ from a previous service who wants to get baptized so that every Sunday there will be new ones being buried with him and raised to newness of life by FAITH. How Exciting would that BE???

It would appear you have not studied every thing that applies to that ceremonial shadow. It is the question that was asked by the Pharisees, who sought after lying wonders .Those that glory in the flesh the things seen in John 3 below

John the Levi did not say; I have no idea why I baptized Jesus from the tribe of Judah was baptized as part of the priesthood of believers and is now performing the ceremony his own self . He was well aware the a new priesthood after melchedik was coming ( Psalm 110:4

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples believers and the(non believing)Jews about purifying.
And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. John 3:25-26

With the Levitical priests washings they prepared others for the ministry. John was the last Levi . He handed handed it over to Jesus from the tribe of Judah. The sons of Leah; Jacob's firstborn with his first wife. Simeon, and Levi, and Judah .It focusses on the first born they represent those who are born again. Simeon and Levi used as instruments of cruelty are in their habitations. could not represent the new order .it was time to turn the carnal weapons into plowshares . the introduction of a kingdom of priest, the promise of Joel. men and woman for all the nations of the world


This is no different than another lying wonder connected to a sign. Like The tongue doctrine. It has its foundation in the Old testemtment. No such thing a a sign gift. Spiritual gifts yes.

Signs follow after one who has been freely given the grace of God. With their new tongue they can preach the gospel. It not a outward sign works in a person . No grace comes from any outward sign we can perform . Why destroy the foundations?

 

[Guojing]

Whoever believes in Me has ((present tense)) eternal life
- Jesus


Yeah why not read it literally?

If you want to compare like that, it will never end.

In another instance Jesus said "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13

 

[posthuman]

If you want to compare like that, it will never end.

In another instance Jesus said "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13

If you think Jesus is saying something contradictory here, yeah, I agree, there is no destination for you to be able to reach.

Likewise if you think the apostles preached a different gospel than their Master, IMO

 

[Guojing]

If you think Jesus is saying something contradictory here, yeah, I agree, there is no destination for you to be able to reach.

Likewise if you think the apostles preached a different gospel than their Master, IMO

There is a reason why all their letters to Israel were placed, by the Holy Spirit, after Paul's letters Romans to Philemon.

During the Tribulation period, where the body of Christ is already raptured, the gospel of the kingdom will resume again for Israel.

So yes, they need to endure to the end of the 7 years and not take the mark of the beast, in order to be considered saved in the end.

If you read Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 1 John, all of them talk about this enduring to the end. So no, they are not preaching a different gospel from Jesus, they are preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

 

[garee]

Someone mentioned can we forbid water in Acts 10:47. The answer must have been yes we can forbid it because they did not baptist in water in verse 48. Your grasping at straws.

Water was used when a person requested to become a priest in the new order as part of the old (foundation) . Its why Jesus was baptized and then also did the work of applying water to new recruits as part of a ongoing ceremonial law .

Those who demanded a sign from Jesus making him into a circus seal. They are those who do seek after "lying wonders." Jesus called them a evil generation. No sign was given .They are shown as faithless. literalizing the spiritual understanding hid in parables. Making the 20/20 instruction below needed for rightly dividing parables without effect.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In affect worshiping shadows of the things to come and not the very unseen substance.

No faith, according to prophecy the gospel. Shadows of the unseen, eternal. Used as a parable which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service complete or perfect as pertaining to the conscience; they simply tasted of the good things to come.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

(no faith, not little, none coming from God )

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

 

[garee]

Instead of making such a complex analysis, why not just read literally?

As I mentioned in that Long thread not by works, you cannot ever find John saying what Paul was teaching in 1 cor 15:1-4

To James Peter and John, eternal life is always something in the future. It is not something that we can have now.

It shows in the letters they wrote to Israel, that were placed together after Pauls letters

The promise in the presence is in regard to the future. its all one in the same .A living hope.

All men die not receiving it. (Hebrew 11:39) But according to Philippians 1:6 we have the confidence of Christ and not of our own selves . If Christ has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it again when we do receive our new incorruptible bodies

Why literalize the spiritual understandings . Faith to faith .The gospel?

We must be careful how we hear.

Roman 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

As it is written . . Without parables "Christ working in us" spoke not. They teach us how to walk by the faith of Christ that works in us as "two walking together".

Be careful how we hear. We know the results of the fall.

 

[Hevosmies]

According to John, what must we believe about Jesus to have life?

According to Paul, what must we believe about Jesus to be saved?

What does the 2 passages say?

Just because it says "believe for eternal life" here and "repent for eternal life" there doesnt mean its two different Gospels, its one Gospel and both are included.

I dont know where this intellectual idea of salvation came from that you just have to mentally agree to certain facts about Jesus.

Christianity is a way of LIFE. You live the Christian life day in and day out. You dont just repeat a prayer and go your merry way life just like you did before. Its a life altering experience when the Holy Spirit moves in you, when God saves you its a PACKAGE deal.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Same God who calls, is the same one who justifies, is the same one who glorifies etc.

 

[Chester]

The only question in Acts 10:47 was should we use water and the answer must have been no because Peter did not use water in the next verse. Now tell me more about this Philip? Was he an apostle? Um, was he a writer for the church doctrine? Is something considered a rule if two people do it? You guys got nothing because there's no place in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians where water baptism was taught. Nowhere.

It so happens that Jesus himself told his disciples to baptize:

Matthew 28:18-20: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The disciples kept that command, and it is passed on to all of us who are Jesus' disciples. This is His command and His promise unto the end of the world. You may try to say it does not apply to me, or was in the Old Testament era, or anything else you want. But, for myself, the Great Commission of my Lord and Saviour applies to me. Hence I will go forth and baptize . . . and teach . . . unto the end of the world.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You guys got nothing because there's no place in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians where water baptism was taught. Nowhere.

This reveals gross ignorance of what is in the New Testament and how it is written (in order to promote your false doctrine). As I already pointed out Peter was obeying the commandment of the Lord in Acts 10 and literally commandment believers to be baptized. And so was Paul in Acts, as well as what he writes in 1 Corinthians.

Indeed Paul was so greatly convinced of the necessity for believer's baptism that he baptized a whole household AT MIDNIGHT (Acts 16). Then he explained the spiritual significance of baptism in Romans. But a doctrine does not have to be repeated in every book of the New Testament to establish its validity.

There is a thread on "by their fruits ye shall know them" applicable to false prophets and false teachers. You would be wise to see yourself there and repent of all your false teachings.

 

[posthuman]

Instead of making such a complex analysis

What is so complex about recognizing that the gospel of John - just like Matthew, Mark & Luke - testifies of Christ's death, burial and resurrection?

 

[posthuman]

The only question in Acts 10:47 was should we use water and the answer must have been no because Peter did not use water in the next verse.

What exactly is your reason for saying Simon Peter did not use H2O to baptize the people in v. 48?
Right after he had just exclaimed "wow, who could possibly say don't use H2O?"

Do you believe Simon Peter baptized them with the Holy Spirit? The people who were already filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

Pete.
You look really ridiculous trying to fight with Acts 10.

 

[Scribe]

The only question in Acts 10:47 was should we use water and the answer must have been no because Peter did not use water in the next verse. Now tell me more about this Philip? Was he an apostle? Um, was he a writer for the church doctrine? Is something considered a rule if two people do it? You guys got nothing because there's no place in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians where water baptism was taught. Nowhere.

Actually it is found in several of the books you mentioned and you have already been told. Philip was first a deacon then he was called an evangelist, He was full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, signs and wonders followed his ministry, he had 4 daughter who prophesied. You are not very good at this false teaching stuff. You should just stop before you face the severe discipline of the Lord.

 

[Peterlag]

What exactly is your reason for saying Simon Peter did not use H2O to baptize the people in v. 48?
Right after he had just exclaimed "wow, who could possibly say don't use H2O?"

Do you believe Simon Peter baptized them with the Holy Spirit? The people who were already filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

Pete.
You look really ridiculous trying to fight with Acts 10.

Water baptism is not a doctrine that belongs to the Church of God and this is why it's not taught in Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, or Thessalonians. In fact, it's not taught in any of the Epistles.