My take on water baptism...

[Laish]

I don't know if what I read about holy water being mentioned as early as 80 AD is correct since I was not there and niether were you. But what I do know is the Catholics had a grip on the whole Christian world very early on and most of what you believe came from them. For another example we can look at the concept of the original sin that was first alluded to in the second century by Irenaeus, (Bishop of Lyon) who was working for the Catholics and not for the apostle Paul.

Yea I am familiar with Irenaeus. What he taught was not original sin . Augustine does attribute the teaching to him though .A simple reading of the work by Ireaneus “Against Heresies” where Augustine gets his idea shows he taught a form of Pelagianism. Irenaeus taught man had no choice to sin because of his environment and not because of a inherent nature . Irenaeus taught if we had a better upbringing we could be sin free . Augustine taught that a sin nature was inherently inside man before we were born . You are really way off .
Bill

 

[Laish]

After more than 45 years and I'm still a novice. You're funny.

Well what does that have to do with anything. Pope Francis has been at it for over 50 years. Time has nothing to do with it . If so then Frank the hippy Pope is more qualified than you .
Bill

 

[Scribe]

I don't know if what I read about holy water being mentioned as early as 80 AD is correct since I was not there and niether were you. But what I do know is the Catholics had a grip on the whole Christian world very early on and most of what you believe came from them. For another example we can look at the concept of the original sin that was first alluded to in the second century by Irenaeus, (Bishop of Lyon) who was working for the Catholics and not for the apostle Paul.

I suggest Kenneth Scott Latourette A history of the expansion of Christianity The first five centuries. https://archive.org/details/firstfivecenturi008505mbp
Irenaeus died around 202 AD Constantine was born about 272 AD, And the Roman Catholic Church was not until after Constantine so you seem to not have a good grasp on early church history and are in need of a good book to read. Kenneth Scott Latourette is used by many bible colleges. One of the best authors on the subject. Very detailed, and very accurate.

 

[Peterlag]

I suggest Kenneth Scott Latourette A history of the expansion of Christianity The first five centuries. https://archive.org/details/firstfivecenturi008505mbp
Irenaeus died around 202 AD Constantine was born about 272 AD, And the Roman Catholic Church was not until after Constantine so you seem to not have a good grasp on early church history and are in need of a good book to read. Kenneth Scott Latourette is used by many bible colleges. One of the best authors on the subject. Very detailed, and very accurate.

Kinda hard to visit with the pope if there were none until 200 hundred years later...

"Irenaeus went to Rome with a letter to Pope Eleutherius concerning Montanism, and on that occasion bore emphatic testimony to his merits." - Catholic Encyclopedia

 

[Peterlag]

Well what does that have to do with anything. Pope Francis has been at it for over 50 years. Time has nothing to do with it . If so then Frank the hippy Pope is more qualified than you .
Bill

It has this to do with it... I'm an expert on the subject of biblical data and I can assure you I'm no novice.

 

[Peterlag]

Yea I am familiar with Irenaeus. What he taught was not original sin . Augustine does attribute the teaching to him though .A simple reading of the work by Ireaneus “Against Heresies” where Augustine gets his idea shows he taught a form of Pelagianism. Irenaeus taught man had no choice to sin because of his environment and not because of a inherent nature . Irenaeus taught if we had a better upbringing we could be sin free . Augustine taught that a sin nature was inherently inside man before we were born . You are really way off .
Bill

I'm not way off since the context is water baptism and not about Irenaeus who I mentioned ONLY to prove how old the Catholics are.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Just because you do not believe it does not make it wrong.

What kind of inane remark is that? You are here to promote false teachings and your own MANUFACTURED THEOLOGY. You should be trying to learn the truth, rather than promote heresies. All your threads so far (and you have way too many) present a distorted version of Bible doctrines. Which means that you have either (1) not been properly grounded in the Word, or (2) you have chosen lies over truth. This thread about your "take" on water baptism is completely opposed to Scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

45 years and you have only read the Old Testament twice and you can't see that makes you a 45 year novice? The New Testament scriptures continuously expound on the Old Testament scriptures as their foundation. If you cannot teach Jesus from the book of Isaiah you are not ready to be a teacher, or an evangelist. What scriptures do you think Paul taught from? What scriptures did Apollos teach from. Do you think you are better than Paul or Apollos? Well if you do, you're not. I would never listen to a teacher who said they have only read the Old Testament twice. They are a novice not ready to be a teacher. I am not trying to be mean to you, I am trying to help you. You may think it is not that big of a deal but it is serious thing to God to teach your own private interpretation that calls Christ's command to baptize all nations in water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost a work of the flesh that is no longer needed today. A very serious departure from orthodox Christianity.

There's no place in the New Testament that says anyone should baptist in water. You're making stuff up. It was only done for a little while in the beginning out of tradition and never done again or even mentioned other than to say we have no further need for it.

 

[Laish]

I'm not way off since the context is water baptism and not about Irenaeus who I mentioned ONLY to prove how old the Catholics are.

And I showed you Irenaeus did not follow any Catholic dogma you really need to study .
Bill

 

[Peterlag]

And I showed you Irenaeus did not follow any Catholic dogma you really need to study .
Bill

Are you telling me Irenaeus was not Catholic? And believe you me I have done a lot of studying on the Scriptures which I know well.

 

[soggykitten]

Oh but I have read the old testament. Twice all the way through. I just don't teach it because we have the new now.

Teach? I wonder if you're the Pastor Art Watkins? He has a website that promotes that falsity you do here. That water Baptism is not for today.

It is concerning how many out there who claim to preach or teach the word, and are wholly unholy in the process. The souls they put on the wrong path are like unto millstones that will be draped around that false ones neck when they appear before the judgment. They'll answer to a more strict accounting of their actions and deeds than the rest of us. And those whom they from the pulpit did mislead with false teaching will surely receive God's mercy in light of the punishment their false teacher deserved, after being forewarned in James 3:1, and shall suffer for changing God's words to their own.

The old testament is the foundation of the new. If you think the old testament no longer applies, you are not in the church.

If you truly do teach, I pray God opens your heart and mind that you find your way to the truth of God in Christ. Till then, if it is God's plan, I pray for those to whom you speak,I pray that they run like Hell fire is nipping at their heels, and flee from your presence. I pray they find refuge in a Bible believing community and are taught by a God anointed pastor the truth of God in Christ.

 

[Guojing]

The Apostles baptized in the authority of Jesus Christ and that had nothing to do with water.

The real question you might want to ask is, is Matthew 28 written to you as instructions?

 

[Scribe]

Kinda hard to visit with the pope if there were none until 200 hundred years later...

"Irenaeus went to Rome with a letter to Pope Eleutherius concerning Montanism, and on that occasion bore emphatic testimony to his merits." - Catholic Encyclopedia

Catholics lie. They say that Peter was the first Pope. So your source is suspect and invalid.

 

[49]

There's no place in the New Testament that says anyone should baptist in water. You're making stuff up. It was only done for a little while in the beginning out of tradition and never done again or even mentioned other than to say we have no further need for it.

????????

 

[Hevosmies]

So what happen if a new believer decline water baptism? Is he still saved?

Hes not saved. NEXT.

If someone CLAIMS to believe in Jesus, I walk up to them and say hey, wanna get baptized RIGHT NOW? Put em on the spot and they say NO. Thats already a red flag, if you press the issue and they say no no no no no no never. Then 100% unsaved. Bet your life on it

 

[Scribe]

There's no place in the New Testament that says anyone should baptist in water. You're making stuff up. It was only done for a little while in the beginning out of tradition and never done again or even mentioned other than to say we have no further need for it.

You posted quite a few scriptures that said they did baptize. Of course it meant water. Even Paul talked about it saying...

or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:

Now you know yourself that when he said that he baptized Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas, he was talking about water baptism.

I am not going to waste anymore time with you. You are not being intellectually honest and it is obvious.

 

[Guojing]

Hes not saved. NEXT.

If someone CLAIMS to believe in Jesus, I walk up to them and say hey, wanna get baptized RIGHT NOW? Put em on the spot and they say NO. Thats already a red flag, if you press the issue and they say no no no no no no never. Then 100% unsaved. Bet your life on it

Is water baptism a work to you?

 

[Peterlag]

You posted quite a few scriptures that said they did baptize. Of course it meant water. Even Paul talked about it saying...

or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:

Now you know yourself that when he said that he baptized Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas, he was talking about water baptism.

I am not going to waste anymore time with you. You are not being intellectually honest and it is obvious.

Of course it did not mean water. I mean how many times can you be wrong? You don't know what baptized in the name of Jesus Christ means. You don't know the Catholics were around in the second century. You don't seem to know I'm an expert in New Testament data.

 

[Peterlag]

Catholics lie. They say that Peter was the first Pope. So your source is suspect and invalid.

My source is everyone who ever wrote in an encyclopedia.

 

[Peterlag]

Teach? I wonder if you're the Pastor Art Watkins? He has a website that promotes that falsity you do here. That water Baptism is not for today.

It is concerning how many out there who claim to preach or teach the word, and are wholly unholy in the process. The souls they put on the wrong path are like unto millstones that will be draped around that false ones neck when they appear before the judgment. They'll answer to a more strict accounting of their actions and deeds than the rest of us. And those whom they from the pulpit did mislead with false teaching will surely receive God's mercy in light of the punishment their false teacher deserved, after being forewarned in James 3:1, and shall suffer for changing God's words to their own.

The old testament is the foundation of the new. If you think the old testament no longer applies, you are not in the church.

If you truly do teach, I pray God opens your heart and mind that you find your way to the truth of God in Christ. Till then, if it is God's plan, I pray for those to whom you speak,I pray that they run like Hell fire is nipping at their heels, and flee from your presence. I pray they find refuge in a Bible believing community and are taught by a God anointed pastor the truth of God in Christ.

Oh see... I'm not the first to say water baptism means nothing.