My take on water baptism...

[Peterlag]

That is completely false. Christian baptism has nothing to do with levitical law. And in any event, your attempt to prove that Christian baptism is no longer necessary has absolutely no merit. That is an attempt to mislead and misdirect people, and there are serious consequences for leading people astray.

Just because you do not believe it does not make it wrong.

 

[Peterlag]

Ever read the Didache? It was written no later than 150 AD. It has Instructions for Baptisms. Just as it is done today it was done then.

Catholics were already in control for maybe 100 years or longer by the year 150 AD. Historians have papers with holy water on it dating back as far as 80 AD.

 

[Laish]

Catholics were already in control for maybe 100 years or longer by the year 150 AD. Historians have papers with holy water on it dating back as far as 80 AD.

Actually the earliest written document mentioning holy water is from the late 4th century around 380 called The Constitutions of the Holy Apostles . It’s the closest evidence Catholics have trying to show the apostles used holy water . You need to get a good grip on church history. Pushing the idea that the Catholic Church was in control by the year 50 is laughable. That would put the Catholics in charge when Peter Paul and John were still alive and before some parts of the New Testament was written.
Bill

 

[Benadam]

Catholics were already in control for maybe 100 years or longer by the year 150 AD. Historians have papers with holy water on it dating back as far as 80 AD.

One man's garbage is another man's treasure I suppose.

 

[Scribe]

You did not believe the simple truth that I posted. I will post it again and there really is no more data on it.

Water baptism is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.”

There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established.

False teaching. Probably an offshoot of UPC oneness cult taking it a step further, trying to draw disciples after yourself. Did you get kicked out of your church for heresy?

 

[Scribe]

I teach Christ and his righteousness. I don't teach man and how well they sin.

I highly doubt anyone would tolerate your teaching that water baptism is a work of the flesh equal to the Judaizers demanding circumcision. Your going to be teaching to empty chairs.

 

[fredoheaven]

Oh but I have read the old testament. Twice all the way through. I just don't teach it because we have the new now.

Romans 15: 4For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

 

[Scribe]

Galatians 5:1-4
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

We will fall from the understanding of the grace that is in Christ, and succumb to the doctrines and theories that are dictated by human conception if we seek justification by our own works. The concision was from those who taught circumcision was necessary for salvation. Circumcision is a work of the flesh required by the Old Testament Law, and by the way so is water baptism, which is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law.

There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.”

There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.

Your attempts at teaching are a work of the flesh.

 

[Scribe]

Oh but I have read the old testament. Twice all the way through. I just don't teach it because we have the new now.

This explains a lot. You're a novice. Wait on your ministry. You're not ready to teach yet. Be humble. You have some foundational issues.

 

[garee]

Just because you do not believe it does not make it wrong.

The Levitical law in so much when a person had a desire to serve God as a kingdom of priest is founded in the Old. It can be seen first applied to Aarons two sons. It was pending the change in priesthood of believers coming as Melchedik and old testament vision or theophany (no flesh and blood) .

It shows the Christ as the Son of God our unseen high priest continually without mother of faith beginnig of Spirit life or end thereof. Using the flesh and blood of the son of man. Jesus as a demonstration

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Its what the question was about. Why one from the tribe of Judah is baptized and is now doing the work of a Priest baptizing other who desire to serve the gospel.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25-26

Not a self edifying sign to ones own self. The witness. "I did it".

Aarons two sons when they were introduced to that Levitical law brought strange fire a personal way of adding personal touch as a self edifying work. The were consumed by fire and their priestly Levitical attire was left untouched. Not a hint of smoke.

No sign is given to confirm ones own person .We walk by faith the unseen eternal Having the power or treasure in these bodies of death by which we can believe God and not our own selves. No outward sign to seek after.

 

[Guojing]

Just because you do not believe it does not make it wrong.

You have to understand that, among all the versions of the Great Commission, the most popular one taught in churches is the Matt 28 version.

And in that version, water baptism was given as an instruction.

So naturally, because many churches list the GC as their foundation, anyone preaching the idea that water baptism is not necessary for us now, will be resisted strongly.

 

[garee]

You have to understand that, among all the versions of the Great Commission, the most popular one taught in churches is the Matt 28 version.

And in that version, water baptism was given as an instruction.

So naturally, because many churches list the GC as their foundation, anyone preaching the idea that water baptism is not necessary for us now, will be resisted strongly.

What if Christ resists it strongly? The foundation is clearly shown is in the old. No such thing as sign gift. Like for instance; I did it. It proves a person is born again No outward sign for that. We walk by faith. as that not seen with the eye .But do perceive with our new born again hearts . Getting wet only proves water was there. It dies up and vanishes.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

HAPPY mystery of our water, because the sins of our former blindness are washed away and we are freed for everlasting life! The present treatise will not be useless, if it instruct alike those who are at this moment being formed, and those who, satisfied with simple belief, do not investigate the grounds of what has been handed down, and in inexperience carry an untried credible faith. And further, a certain viper of the Gaian persuasion,1 who lived here recently, has carried away very many with her poisonous teaching, which aimed particularly at the abolition of Baptism. In this she clearly acted according to nature: for it is the habit of vipers and asps and even basilisks to haunt dry and waterless spots. But we little fish, like our Fish Jesus Christ,2 are born in water, and it is only by remaining in water that we are safe. Therefore that monster, who even in her days of innocence was without the right to teach,3 well knew how to slay the little fish by removing them from the water.

This was written by a Christian apologist in 160ad.

 

[Peterlag]

You have to understand that, among all the versions of the Great Commission, the most popular one taught in churches is the Matt 28 version.

And in that version, water baptism was given as an instruction.

So naturally, because many churches list the GC as their foundation, anyone preaching the idea that water baptism is not necessary for us now, will be resisted strongly.

The Apostles baptized in the authority of Jesus Christ and that had nothing to do with water.

 

[Peterlag]

The Levitical law in so much when a person had a desire to serve God as a kingdom of priest is founded in the Old. It can be seen first applied to Aarons two sons. It was pending the change in priesthood of believers coming as Melchedik and old testament vision or theophany (no flesh and blood) .

It shows the Christ as the Son of God our unseen high priest continually without mother of faith beginnig of Spirit life or end thereof. Using the flesh and blood of the son of man. Jesus as a demonstration

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Its what the question was about. Why one from the tribe of Judah is baptized and is now doing the work of a Priest baptizing other who desire to serve the gospel.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25-26

Not a self edifying sign to ones own self. The witness. "I did it".

Aarons two sons when they were introduced to that Levitical law brought strange fire a personal way of adding personal touch as a self edifying work. The were consumed by fire and their priestly Levitical attire was left untouched. Not a hint of smoke.

No sign is given to confirm ones own person .We walk by faith the unseen eternal Having the power or treasure in these bodies of death by which we can believe God and not our own selves. No outward sign to seek after.

Your thinking is all old testament thinking.

 

[Peterlag]

This explains a lot. You're a novice. Wait on your ministry. You're not ready to teach yet. Be humble. You have some foundational issues.

After more than 45 years and I'm still a novice. You're funny.

 

[Peterlag]

Romans 15: 4For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Yeah again, I read that.

 

[Peterlag]

Actually the earliest written document mentioning holy water is from the late 4th century around 380 called The Constitutions of the Holy Apostles . It’s the closest evidence Catholics have trying to show the apostles used holy water . You need to get a good grip on church history. Pushing the idea that the Catholic Church was in control by the year 50 is laughable. That would put the Catholics in charge when Peter Paul and John were still alive and before some parts of the New Testament was written.
Bill

I don't know if what I read about holy water being mentioned as early as 80 AD is correct since I was not there and niether were you. But what I do know is the Catholics had a grip on the whole Christian world very early on and most of what you believe came from them. For another example we can look at the concept of the original sin that was first alluded to in the second century by Irenaeus, (Bishop of Lyon) who was working for the Catholics and not for the apostle Paul.

 

[Scribe]

After more than 45 years and I'm still a novice. You're funny.

45 years and you have only read the Old Testament twice and you can't see that makes you a 45 year novice? The New Testament scriptures continuously expound on the Old Testament scriptures as their foundation. If you cannot teach Jesus from the book of Isaiah you are not ready to be a teacher, or an evangelist. What scriptures do you think Paul taught from? What scriptures did Apollos teach from. Do you think you are better than Paul or Apollos? Well if you do, you're not. I would never listen to a teacher who said they have only read the Old Testament twice. They are a novice not ready to be a teacher. I am not trying to be mean to you, I am trying to help you. You may think it is not that big of a deal but it is serious thing to God to teach your own private interpretation that calls Christ's command to baptize all nations in water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost a work of the flesh that is no longer needed today. A very serious departure from orthodox Christianity.

 

[Scribe]

The Apostles baptized in the authority of Jesus Christ and that had nothing to do with water.

That makes no sense. How can you and I baptize anyone in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, or in the Name of Jesus without following the example of water baptism as they did. Explain your theory on how you baptize people. Don't tell me what they experience, explain how YOU baptize which is the command. The command is for you to baptize. You must have come up with a spiritualization interpretation but I have not heard you explain your method of baptizing people without water.