[1 Thessalonians 5:17] + [Ecclesiastes 5:2] = . . ?
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(with regards to Ecclesasties 5:2)
Matthew Henry says......
Verses 1-3 Address thyself to the worship of God, and take time to compose thyself for it. Keep thy thoughts from roving and wandering: keep thy affections from running out toward wrong objects. We should avoid vain repetitions; copious prayers are not here condemned, but those that are unmeaning. How often our wandering thoughts render attendance on Divine ordinances little better than the sacrifice of fools! Many words and hasty ones, used in prayer, show folly in the heart, low thoughts of God, and careless thoughts of our own souls.
I take this to mean we should keep our minds and hearts focused on God, and on our requests, and not ramble on about this and that in a helterskelter manner........or using "vain repetitions." Jesus also spoke against such....
I do not think this discounts what the Apostle Paul wrote in any way......
(with regards to 1 Thessalonians 5:17)
Matthew Henry wrote:
5:16-22 We are to rejoice in creature-comforts, as if we rejoiced not, and must not expect to live many years, and rejoice in them all; but if we do rejoice in God, we may do that evermore. A truly religious life is a life of constant joy. And we should rejoice more, if we prayed more. Prayer will help forward all lawful business, and every good work. If we pray without ceasing, we shall not want matter for thanksgiving in every thing. We shall see cause to give thanks for sparing and preventing, for common and uncommon, past and present, temporal and spiritual mercies. Not only for prosperous and pleasing, but also for afflicting providences, for chastisements and corrections; for God designs all for our good, though we at present see not how they tend to it. Quench not the Spirit. Christians are said to be baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire. He worketh as fire, by enlightening, enlivening, and purifying the souls of men.
By reading vs. 17 in context, we see how Henry revealed an understanding of the Scriptures which is good and worthy of a believers considerations........
14) Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15) See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
16) Rejoice evermore.
17) Pray without ceasing.
18) In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19) Quench not the Spirit.
20Despise not prophesyings.
21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Both Scriptures asked about in the OP are the Inspired Word of God, and neither contradicts the other IMO.
Matthew Henry says......
Verses 1-3 Address thyself to the worship of God, and take time to compose thyself for it. Keep thy thoughts from roving and wandering: keep thy affections from running out toward wrong objects. We should avoid vain repetitions; copious prayers are not here condemned, but those that are unmeaning. How often our wandering thoughts render attendance on Divine ordinances little better than the sacrifice of fools! Many words and hasty ones, used in prayer, show folly in the heart, low thoughts of God, and careless thoughts of our own souls.
I take this to mean we should keep our minds and hearts focused on God, and on our requests, and not ramble on about this and that in a helterskelter manner........or using "vain repetitions." Jesus also spoke against such....
I do not think this discounts what the Apostle Paul wrote in any way......
(with regards to 1 Thessalonians 5:17)
Matthew Henry wrote:
5:16-22 We are to rejoice in creature-comforts, as if we rejoiced not, and must not expect to live many years, and rejoice in them all; but if we do rejoice in God, we may do that evermore. A truly religious life is a life of constant joy. And we should rejoice more, if we prayed more. Prayer will help forward all lawful business, and every good work. If we pray without ceasing, we shall not want matter for thanksgiving in every thing. We shall see cause to give thanks for sparing and preventing, for common and uncommon, past and present, temporal and spiritual mercies. Not only for prosperous and pleasing, but also for afflicting providences, for chastisements and corrections; for God designs all for our good, though we at present see not how they tend to it. Quench not the Spirit. Christians are said to be baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire. He worketh as fire, by enlightening, enlivening, and purifying the souls of men.
By reading vs. 17 in context, we see how Henry revealed an understanding of the Scriptures which is good and worthy of a believers considerations........
14) Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15) See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
16) Rejoice evermore.
17) Pray without ceasing.
18) In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19) Quench not the Spirit.
20Despise not prophesyings.
21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Both Scriptures asked about in the OP are the Inspired Word of God, and neither contradicts the other IMO.
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i certainly don't think so either -- personally my thoughts are as JaumeJ's on the topic ((e.g. Romans 8:26-27 is relevant here)), but i wanted to see what everyone had to add.
not sure how Mssr. Henry gets the notion that Solomon is only talking about quality & content of words, with no comment on quantity, from the text.
i mean the very next verse in Ecclesiastes says a fool's voice is known by his multitude of words.
can we say giant wall of text, lol. that is something i need to improve in myself both in speaking to others and in my prayers - to be concise, and simultaneously thorough, is great art
not sure how Mssr. Henry gets the notion that Solomon is only talking about quality & content of words, with no comment on quantity, from the text.
i mean the very next verse in Ecclesiastes says a fool's voice is known by his multitude of words.
can we say giant wall of text, lol. that is something i need to improve in myself both in speaking to others and in my prayers - to be concise, and simultaneously thorough, is great art
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think about what you are praying before you pray? Or if not just pray in the spirit and you will always have the right words to magnify God.
some people just pray any old thing and God probably is not that interested in whether you broke a fingernail or that you cant find a park or whatever.
some people just pray any old thing and God probably is not that interested in whether you broke a fingernail or that you cant find a park or whatever.
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hope you'll excuse the snarkiness of my previous comment 
but yes, i think this is exactly what Solomon is intimating by saying 'do not let your heart utter anything hastily..'
-- that we should really give consideration to what is in our heart while we pray. it is similar to the saying, i think it was C.S. Lewis? that prayer doesn't change God, but changes ourselves. this change is worked when we are consciously aware of what we're saying to Him -- for example i often find myself petitioning God for something, and while doing so realizing my selfishness and impatience, and my prayer turns from a plea to an expression of humility and thanksgiving for what i already have, and asking for patience instead of whatever it was i first sought.
but yes, i think this is exactly what Solomon is intimating by saying 'do not let your heart utter anything hastily..'
-- that we should really give consideration to what is in our heart while we pray. it is similar to the saying, i think it was C.S. Lewis? that prayer doesn't change God, but changes ourselves. this change is worked when we are consciously aware of what we're saying to Him -- for example i often find myself petitioning God for something, and while doing so realizing my selfishness and impatience, and my prayer turns from a plea to an expression of humility and thanksgiving for what i already have, and asking for patience instead of whatever it was i first sought.
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Do you think that pray without ceasing means don't give up on prayer, like later in life. Pray every day. ??
I don't think it is really possible to do all the things it literally says to do in 1 Thess 5
Can someone really pray without ceasing? Or is it like Blik says and that we are keeping the Lord in our thoughts while we speak and think....?
I don't think it is really possible to do all the things it literally says to do in 1 Thess 5
Can someone really pray without ceasing? Or is it like Blik says and that we are keeping the Lord in our thoughts while we speak and think....?
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i take it as an ideal that we should always be thankful, always be rejoicing toward God, and always abiding in Him - and i correlate abiding with an attitude of prayer. from what Christ says about the Father knowing our need before we ask, what Paul says about the Spirit interceding in us, i take it that prayer is more than conscious vocalization - even the fact that we often pray silently to me indicates that prayer is something that transcends physical expression of it, and i consider that the brain is part of the physical body.
whether on any point we attain the ideal, before the redemption of our bodies, i don't know. "i count not myself to have apprehended"
so, while i see how this can be taken to mean, pray without 'giving up' ((re: Luke 18:1-8)) i do think the sense that we should be 'constant in prayer' is expressed here. that's why i put it next to Solomon's verse about the wisdom of not wasting words ((Matthew 12:36?)), because there seems to be a tension between these two that i think when resolved, shows great truth about righteousness in how we approach the Lord
whether on any point we attain the ideal, before the redemption of our bodies, i don't know. "i count not myself to have apprehended"
so, while i see how this can be taken to mean, pray without 'giving up' ((re: Luke 18:1-8)) i do think the sense that we should be 'constant in prayer' is expressed here. that's why i put it next to Solomon's verse about the wisdom of not wasting words ((Matthew 12:36?)), because there seems to be a tension between these two that i think when resolved, shows great truth about righteousness in how we approach the Lord
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I believe God loves to hear our prayers and loves when we just talk to Him. And, for the most part, I talk to God throughout my day ... even though I do have specific times set aside for prayer.Here is what HELPS Word-studies has to say about proseuchomai (pray) and adialeiptós (without ceasing) and, fyi, in the text, the verse reads adialeiptós proseuchomai (without ceasing pray).
4336 proseúxomai (from 4314 /prós, "towards, exchange" and 2172/euxomai, "to wish, pray") – properly, to exchange wishes; pray – literally, to interact with the Lord by switching human wishes (ideas) for His wishes as He imparts faith ("divine persuasion"). Accordingly, praying (4336/proseuxomai) is closely inter-connected with 4102 /pístis ("faith") in the NT.
89 adialeíptōs (an adverb, derived from 1 /A "not," 1223 /diá, "across" and 3007 /leípō, "to leave") – properly, nothing left between, i.e. without any unnecessary interval (time-gap).
As I am going about my day, I try to be mindful and thank God for the good He reveals to me ... and I seek His guidance as needed (a lot!!!). He watches over us with His great love and care and concern for us. I see no issue with going to Him at any time ... even when it's a seemingly minimal problem or a slight happiness or even just going along.
[quote-posthuman]
do not be rash with your mouth, and let not your heart utter anything hastily before God,
for God is in heaven, and you on earth; therefore let your words be few
(Ecclesiastes 5:2)[/QUOTE]
I thought of this parable in reading Ecc 5:2 ...Luke 18:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I think Ecc 5:2 points out that in our approach to Father, we need to take time to consider Who it is we speak to ... take our time in communicating with God and consider our true needs. God is in heaven and we are earthly. What do we pray for? Do we pray for things that will bring a fleeting momentary pleasure here on earth? Or do we pray for things that are more substantial, taking into consideration eternal realities? Pray for things that will help us navigate through the circumstances of this life while preparing us for eternity.
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I talk to God all the time in the "busy-ness" of my day ... and then I have my quiet with the Father ... no distractions ... just quiet time with God. I love Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore. Nothing more pleasurable than spending time with the Father ... in His presence ... where we find fulness of joy and pleasures for evermore.
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Something of the wisdom in the Bible is that it is often conditional without necessarily stating as much. This is especially true of Qoholeth who presents the height of human wisdom demonstrating the void into which we stare without special revelation.
Where does this put us in prayer? We must make wise use of our words not speaking simply for the sake of speaking. God knows our concerns so we need not elaborate as if he doesn't know.
Yet we must constantly be in that communication both receiving and giving placing every topic that crosses the threshold of our minds. No need for long-winded speeches filled with exposition, just a constant stream of back and forth giving and receiving in prayer.
Where does this put us in prayer? We must make wise use of our words not speaking simply for the sake of speaking. God knows our concerns so we need not elaborate as if he doesn't know.
Yet we must constantly be in that communication both receiving and giving placing every topic that crosses the threshold of our minds. No need for long-winded speeches filled with exposition, just a constant stream of back and forth giving and receiving in prayer.
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