Righteousness

[garee]

I'm righteous. Jesus Christ has us locked into this new covenant because this is the oath God has sworn to, and it's the covenant Christ has bonded with. It's a covenant of love that allows us to dwell in God’s love, and thus dwell in God—and God in us. It's what we have, it's who we are, and it's the right relationship with God, who has established this “new covenant.” We are heirs of God, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ, who has made us righteous, given us redemption, sanctification, and wisdom.

Thanks for the reply.

I would offer. You are simply preaching self-righteousness another kind of gospel. (dead faith/ dead works)

We preach Christ crucified working in us with us .Not a work of faith coming from us and not Him .(self righteousness)

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Not a work of faith coming from us towards Him (dead faith) That's designed for them that taste and experrnced the good work of Christ working but then they turn a deny him .Exposing him to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough to believe our generate a faith for the unseen will . Those that are given the faith of Christ to believe they are promised the better things that "accompany salvation" .In so much he will not forget the good works he works in us that we offer working with him toward His name no our own name self righteousness (dead faith/ dead works)

Hebrews 6:1-10 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (not from God) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[Lafftur]

There are parts of the bible where it talks about the Jews and those are not Christians. Or Jewish Christians as you put it. Gentile are those who were not Jewish or Christian. They were not Greek Christians.

Consider your ways.......

The HOLY Bible is The HOLY Word of God that HOLY men wrote as they were moved upon by the HOLY Spirit.......

WHY are you trying to understand It with “human reasoning”?!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Again, if they have to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved. Then can you understand how a guy like me might think they are not yet born again and therefore not Christians?

That was not my point. You stated "Paul tells us in Romans 10 that he's talking to Israel". Prior to being born again, I was not "of Israel". I was gentile. A believer witnessed to me and showed me what was written in Romans 10:6-17 ... and specifically vss 9 and 10. I was born again based on what was revealed to me in that section of Scripture which you claim does not apply to anyone other than those who are "of Israel".

As far as Rom 10:17 [faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God] ... this truth applies to every single verse in Scripture, not just the verses that bring salvation.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Jesus once told the religious leaders of his time they were teaching for the truth of God’s Word, “the commandments of men.” It appears we continue to do the same in our day and time. People can never win the right to stand before God’s righteousness through their own traditions and ordinances, which at best, are only the consequences of the commandments of people. The only begotten Son, who is in the Father’s love, comfort, and rest, has declared and unfolded the concealed things of God once and for all. The world so desperately needs the light of the gospel of Christ, who has shown us the Father’s heart, so we who hunger and thirst after righteousness can be filled.

I totally agree with you. Righteousness comes through study of the word and practice of it too.

 

[garee]

That was not my point. You stated "Paul tells us in Romans 10 that he's talking to Israel". Prior to being born again, I was not "of Israel". I was gentile. A believer witnessed to me and showed me what was written in Romans 10:6-17 ... and specifically vss 9 and 10. I was born again based on what was revealed to me in that section of Scripture which you claim does not apply to anyone other than those who are "of Israel".

As far as Rom 10:17 [faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God] ... this truth applies to every single verse in Scripture, not just the verses that bring salvation.

Amen only those who are called believers have the power working in them when they do wrestle against faithless flesh and blood. our own selves. He gives us the power to overcome. Without him we can do nothing, zero that could be considered a good work or labor of love required seeing he is working with them .As the better things that acompanies our strengthening or salvation. He promises us he will not forget the good works he works with us that we offer toward the power of His name . (Hebrew 6) Some would seem Murmurer making the labor heaver.

Philippians 2 :13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Pray as he teaches us to pray he will call to our remembrance the promise.

Hebrew 6:9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Then like Peter we can keep our eye of faith off man seen. Like Peter did with John when he went to town and started a oral tradition of men corrupted mankind. That John would not die the wage of sin according to the letter of the law. .

Jesus did the work of exposing that lie. Jesus in effect said; if every time he had to expose the lies of the oral traditions of men that we would need a library that would outstretch the boundaries of this earth.

 

[Peterlag]

That was not my point. You stated "Paul tells us in Romans 10 that he's talking to Israel". Prior to being born again, I was not "of Israel". I was gentile. A believer witnessed to me and showed me what was written in Romans 10:6-17 ... and specifically vss 9 and 10. I was born again based on what was revealed to me in that section of Scripture which you claim does not apply to anyone other than those who are "of Israel".

As far as Rom 10:17 [faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God] ... this truth applies to every single verse in Scripture, not just the verses that bring salvation.

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

To rightly understand the Word of God, one must understand what part is written to the Church of God and what part is written for the learning of the Church. Every word from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, is written for our learning. However, not all of the words from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, are addressed to us.

We must learn to distinguish not only the various people, but also the different time periods God has spoken to if we want to understand the written Word of God. The time God spoke to the children of Israel is not the same time period He has spoken to us. The time He spoke to the prophets in the time of the Old Testament is not the same time period He spoke to His Son Jesus Christ in the time of the gospels.

The different time periods in the Bible are called dispensations. The Greek word for “dispensation” is “oikonomia” meaning the act of administering. The word “o’kos” means house, and “nemo” means to dispense, to weigh or deal out, as a steward or housekeeper. Therefore, the word was used to manage or administrate a household. The word is used three times in Luke 16:2-4, where it's translated “stewardship.” In four other places it's translated “dispensation.” I like the word administration because it communicates very well with our current English language. We must understand these administrations have different time periods in the Bible and each have their own beginning and their own ending—with the exception of the last one.

The first is called the Paradise administration. It was the time of innocence, the time before the fall that ends with Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of the original paradise.

The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

The third is the Legal administration. It's suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The fourth is the Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The fifth started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

The sixth begins with the appearing of Jesus Christ, and the gathering together of the saints. Believe it or not, this administration ends with Satan destroyed, and the great white throne judgment.

The seventh is the Glory or Paradise administration, which will not have an ending.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

You state:

"It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning"​

​

and then proceed to lecture me because you do not believe I am capable of rightly dividing the Word of truth.

I happen to believe it is beneficial for me to learn not only that which God would have me to know concerning the age in which we now live, but also learn whatever lesson God determines He wants me to know as I read of the men and women of faith who came before, as well as searching out those passages which point to Messiah, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The One and only Subject of the Bible is the Lord Jesus Christ and I search for Him. The whole Bible is a great treasure trove and each nugget is well worth the time it takes to dig it out. Please allow me to read the whole Bible so that I may learn what God would have me to learn.

You do not agree with my method of study and that is your prerogative. However, I do not agree with the limitations of your method of approach to God's Word and that is my prerogative. Let's just leave it at that.

To rightly understand the Word of God, one must understand what part is written to the Church of God and what part is written for the learning of the Church. Every word from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, is written for our learning. However, not all of the words from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, are addressed to us.

None of what you have stated in your Post #126 negates what is written in Rom 10:17 [faith by hearing, hearing by Word of God].

God can (and does) work in the heart of the believer to bring understanding concerning what was written aforetime so that we, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, have hope. God works the patience and comfort and hope in my heart ... not your nitpicking over my method of studying Scripture.


Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

 

[Peterlag]

Thanks for the reply.

I would offer. You are simply preaching self-righteousness another kind of gospel. (dead faith/ dead works)

We preach Christ crucified working in us with us .Not a work of faith coming from us and not Him .(self righteousness)

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Not a work of faith coming from us towards Him (dead faith) That's designed for them that taste and experrnced the good work of Christ working but then they turn a deny him .Exposing him to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough to believe our generate a faith for the unseen will . Those that are given the faith of Christ to believe they are promised the better things that "accompany salvation" .In so much he will not forget the good works he works in us that we offer working with him toward His name no our own name self righteousness (dead faith/ dead works)

Hebrews 6:1-10 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (not from God) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

How is your righteous in Christ okay? But my righteous in Christ is self-righteousness another kind of gospel. (dead faith/ dead works)

 

[Peterlag]

Did you study ? Words have meaning.

For instance when God said. let there be light .Light appeared. When he named his Bride Israel he purposely defined the meaning .

When he renamed her Christian there was meaning in the same way.

The whole Bible is written to His bride the church. She as the spiritual house of God is made from lively stones from all nations.

God does not have a bride and there's not going to be a wedding. Calling Israel a woman is a figure of speech.

 

[Peterlag]

You state:

"It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning"​

​

and then proceed to lecture me because you do not believe I am capable of rightly dividing the Word of truth.

I happen to believe it is beneficial for me to learn not only that which God would have me to know concerning the age in which we now live, but also learn whatever lesson God determines He wants me to know as I read of the men and women of faith who came before, as well as searching out those passages which point to Messiah, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The One and only Subject of the Bible is the Lord Jesus Christ and I search for Him. The whole Bible is a great treasure trove and each nugget is well worth the time it takes to dig it out. Please allow me to read the whole Bible so that I may learn what God would have me to learn.

You do not agree with my method of study and that is your prerogative. However, I do not agree with the limitations of your method of approach to God's Word and that is my prerogative. Let's just leave it at that.





None of what you have stated in your Post #126 negates what is written in Rom 10:17 [faith by hearing, hearing by Word of God].

God can (and does) work in the heart of the believer to bring understanding concerning what was written aforetime so that we, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, have hope. God works the patience and comfort and hope in my heart ... not your nitpicking over my method of studying Scripture.


Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

That works for me.

 

[garee]

God does not have a bride and there's not going to be a wedding. Calling Israel a woman is a figure of speech.

The pursuit of the bride of Christ called Israel or Christian is the foundation or theme of the word of God . It begins in the first book Genesis and ends in Revelation. Calling Israel or Christian a woman is the kind of speech used in parables or prophecy .

As sons of God or mankind (men and woman) . We are not what we will be .The two will literal become one new creature again called the bride of wife of Christ..

In the new order when we receive our new incorruptible body we will be like the angel .No procreation .

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 

[garee]

How is your righteous in Christ okay? But my righteous in Christ is self-righteousness another kind of gospel. (dead faith/ dead works)

Now you are getting it. Salvation is not of us, the flesh. Unless and man boast if false pride. (dead faith/ dead works)

No man or woman will or could be found with a righteousness of their own self . Even Jesus as a Son of man who did not do the will of his flesh would never place himself in the Holy place of the unseen father, he gave glory to God unseen .

Who do you give your glory to? Self?

 

[Peterlag]

Now you are getting it. Salvation is not of us, the flesh. Unless and man boast if false pride. (dead faith/ dead works)

No man or woman will or could be found with a righteousness of their own self . Even Jesus as a Son of man who did not do the will of his flesh would never place himself in the Holy place of the unseen father, he gave glory to God unseen .

Who do you give your glory to? Self?

There must be a reason why you think I'm into self righteousness. But I sure don't know why. I teach Christ and not about men or how well they can sin. Jesus Christ is the perfect High Priest, who took upon himself the sins of the entire world, and is the mediator of the new covenant between God and us. The Temple was a temporary place where one would go for divine blessing in building form, but now it is in Christ, who is a permanent place, where one needs to go for divine blessing because of the new covenant God has with Christ.

In the new covenant, we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, who entered into heaven itself to appear in the holy of holies, the sacred chamber of the heart of God’s glorious presence for us. Jesus Christ is the promised seed and faithful High Priest, who fulfilled all the law, and is set between God and us—because he is connected to both sides, and thereby he is able to work with God and with us.

 

[Peterlag]

The pursuit of the bride of Christ called Israel or Christian is the foundation or theme of the word of God . It begins in the first book Genesis and ends in Revelation. Calling Israel or Christian a woman is the kind of speech used in parables or prophecy .

As sons of God or mankind (men and woman) . We are not what we will be .The two will literal become one new creature again called the bride of wife of Christ..

In the new order when we receive our new incorruptible body we will be like the angel .No procreation .

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

The bride only refers to Israel. Never the Christian. The Christian is in the body of Christ. No place from Acts forward are we ever mentioned as a bride. We are in the body of Christ.

 

[garee]

The bride only refers to Israel. Never the Christian. The Christian is in the body of Christ. No place from Acts forward are we ever mentioned as a bride. We are in the body of Christ.

The body of Christ is the bride.

Born again Israel is used to represent the one bride in respect to a inward born again Jew .. When the reformation came the fulfilment of Joel was revealed . Men and woman as kingdom of Priest came into effect.

In leu of all the nations in Acts the Father renamed the bride previously called Israel . . Christian.

Christian a more befitting name to represent all the nations . Christian literally meaning; "Residents of the new Jerusalem the unseen city of Christ", prepared as His one bride, named after her founder and husband Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

The body of Christ is the bride.

Born again Israel is used to represent the one bride in respect to a inward born again Jew .. When the reformation came the fulfilment of Joel was revealed . Men and woman as kingdom of Priest came into effect.

In leu of all the nations in Acts the Father renamed the bride previously called Israel . . Christian.

Christian a more befitting name to represent all the nations . Christian literally meaning; "Residents of the new Jerusalem the unseen city of Christ", prepared as His one bride, named after her founder and husband Christ.

Are you Jewish? Israel is Jewish. Christians are not Israel. No place does it say the bride is the body.

 

[mailmandan]

A consideration of Greek tenses helped me to clarify the meaning of the Apostle John’s words in following verses:
Firstly just to mention 1 John 1:8 clearly states we are deceiving ourselves if we say we have no sin.
John of course was a ‘born again’ Christian and was addressing his fellow ‘born again’ Christians.

At 1 John 2:1 John states ‘If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father’. The Greek verb for ‘sin’ in this verse is in the aorist tense, hence points to one act of sinning as opposed to continuous or progressive action.

At 1 John 3:6,9 In these verses with reference to ‘sinning’ the Greek verb used is in the present tense denoting continuous action. Various modern bible translations take note of this with renderings such as: ‘does not make a practice of sinning’, ‘does not habitually sin’, does not continue to sin’

In summary what I believe John is saying is that ones ‘ Born of God’ still battle with a conflict between ‘sins law’ that is in their imperfect flesh and ‘God’s Law’. Such ones can still sin (momentarily) and will be forgiven if they openly confess such a sin (1 John 1:9). On the other hand one truly ‘Born of God’ cannot persist in or make a practice of sin.

Worthy of note is Hebrews 6:4-6 which shows that ones ‘Born of God’ can fall away and lose their righteous standing with God.

You made some good points about 1 John 1:8; 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 3:6,9.

Yet nowhere in Hebrews 6:4-6 was it stated that those who "fell away" were 'born of God" and lost their righteous standing with God. That is a presumption on your part which is not in harmony with 1 John 3:9, which states - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) and not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

 

[garee]

Are you Jewish? Israel is Jewish. Christians are not Israel. No place does it say the bride is the body.

Christ, eternal God has no form no body he is not a man . Words have meanings attached to them . Change the meaning change the author (plagiarism) and therefore violate the first commandment.

Its never about the corrupted flesh of any nation . Israel as defined. . the new born again name in the renaming of Jacob the deceiver.

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Without Emanuel God with us working in us no man could prevail.

Israel, he who wrestles with flesh and blood and is strengthened by the Spirit of Christ who live in our earthen bodies. They are reckoned as lively stones that make up the spiritual unseen house of God, the church .The one bride of Christ.. . the body of believers.

In Isaiah he promises to re name His bride a new name. One that would represent more than one nation .

Isaiah 62 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. ...

In Acts he fulfilled His promise (the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness,)

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called (by God) Christians first in Antioch

Christian a more befitting name to name all the new creatures. We are to know no man after the corrupted flesh of mankind . Not one.

Christian, literally meaning; "residents of the city of Christ" (Zion the heavenly Jerusalem) named after her husband and founder Christ.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You made some good points about 1 John 1:8; 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 3:6,9.

Yet nowhere in Hebrews 6:4-6 was it stated that those who "fell away" were 'born of God" and lost their righteous standing with God. That is a presumption on your part which is not in harmony with 1 John 3:9, which states - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) and not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

My understanding of Heb 6:4-6 is that these verses are a warning to Jews that they cannot turn away from the Lord Jesus Christ and go back to Judaism because there is no other Messiah to look for. We see the same truth in Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The point of Heb 6:4-6 is not that a born again believer can become "un-born again".

The point is that we are born again one time ... and the Lord Jesus Christ is put to open shame if we go back to the old ways as if the old way was better than the new life given by God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sad when we turn from the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and return to law (our own ways).

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 

[EleventhHour]

My understanding of Heb 6:4-6 is that these verses are a warning to Jews that they cannot turn away from the Lord Jesus Christ and go back to Judaism because there is no other Messiah to look for. We see the same truth in Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The point of Heb 6:4-6 is not that a born again believer can become "un-born again".

The point is that we are born again one time ... and the Lord Jesus Christ is put to open shame if we go back to the old ways as if the old way was better than the new life given by God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sad when we turn from the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and return to law (our own ways).

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Exactly!!