Where did evil come from?

[John146]

Sin is evil. Evil is sin. Evil then is the opposite of right. "All unrighteousness is sin". 1st John 5:17. Or 1st John 3:4 Whosoever COMMITS sin, transgresses also the Law: for sin, is the transgression of the law. Evil is something that one DOES in opposition to what is right. It is not a shadow, or will of the wisp, but an action that is commited.

Evil is not necessarily sin. Evil is simply the opposite of good. God can do good to a person or nation, and God can do evil to a person or nation. Here in the story of Jonah, God was going to overthrow Nineveh, which is considered evil not good.

Jonah 3
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

 

[soberxp]

when Envy for others
became
jealousy others may cause evil.

Proverbs 6：16-19
a proud look
May cause jealousy
May cause anger

any nomal feeling became others May cause evil

 

[tantalon]

Evil is not necessarily sin. Evil is simply the opposite of good. God can do good to a person or nation, and God can do evil to a person or nation. Here in the story of Jonah, God was going to overthrow Nineveh, which is considered evil not good.

Jonah 3
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

If one spanks a child, there are two venues at work, but one act of disobedience that brings them about. The spanking in itself is "evil" yet the motive, purpose and intent is honorable. To bring judgement for bad behaviour may seem wrong in it's carrying out, yet the judgement is honorable because it has the ability to correct. So the evil can be honorable (as in the case of Nineveh) as God was going to correct that which was wrong, but his INTENT and motive was right in judgement.

 

[Deuteronomy]

How about these passages:

Job 2:10

What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?

Psalm 78:49

He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

Proverbs 16:4

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

God's character isn't negatively affected by the implication that God created evil; He created ALL things.

Hello again Miciah-imla, just like Isaiah 45:7, the verses you just mentioned above have nothing to do with the creation of "moral" evil by God. Moral evil is that which is found in the hearts of men (and fallen angels), not in disasters, calamities, illnesses and the like that beset us, and that may even cause us physical/emotional/financial harm (but are used by God for the good of those of us who are His very own in sanctification .. e.g. Romans 8:28; Hebrews 12:7-11).

Isaiah 45:7's "create evil" cannot be understood as God creating "moral" evil, because that directly contradicts what we know of Him, and of what He tells us about Himself, throughout the rest of the Bible.

Just to be perfectly clear here, God does not work iniquity into the hearts of men (which is what God "creating ~moral~ evil", at least in this case, would mean .. it could also mean that He, Himself, chose to sin/do evil).

If God 'is' who you are claiming Him to be however (the Creator of moral evil), that would make Him the Author/Cause of sin, who also holds men accountable/throws them into the Lake of Fire for sins that He forced them to commit. So if what you believe is actually true of God, He would not be our loving Abba, He would be a Monster!

The good news is this however, God ordains/allows the existence of moral evil/sin, but He NEVER causes it!

Why use false bibles to contradict the KJV? .... My only concern is in hearing and obeying his word.

What I've said in this thread so far has had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the KJV translation (it's a translation that I use regularly, in fact). I have no problem with the words that the KJV divines (the translation team) used (to translate Isaiah 45:7). Rather, my concern is with your misunderstanding of their translation/of the KJV text itself, particularly the meaning of the word that was translated as "evil" (in v7) in this case.

You said that your only concern is hearing and obeying God's word. That's great .. unless the meaning that you've assigned to certain words in the KJV is not correct, that is. When you do that (give the wrong meaning to a word in the Bible), you stop obeying God, and you end up obeying "Micaiah-imla" instead (because what you believe to be "obedience" to God ends up being "idolatry", even though it was unintentional).

The KJV is an absolutely wonderful translation, but you have to consider the fact that it was translated into British English more than 400 years ago, and that the meaning of many of the words that were used have changed over the centuries (and because our English is somewhat different here in America, as well). For instance, if you and I were talking to each other in England in 1611, and I said to you, "wow, that girl sure is cute", your reply to me might have been along these lines, "well, that's probably because she trains horses, and has been riding them all day/every day since she was a little girl". The reason that might have been your response (to my calling her "cute" back then) is this, in England, in 1611, "cute" meant "bowlegged".

So, while there is nothing wrong with using the KJV as your one and only translation, you will have to work a little harder in a number of cases to properly understand the meaning of the text in 21st Century America, and context, is always the place to begin!

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - I use the KJV Study Bible. Here's what it has to say about the word translated as "evil" in Isaiah 45:7, just FYI.

45:5–12. The phrase I … create evil refers to physical evil or calamity rather than moral evil. God is in no way pictured in Scripture as the author of sin. ​

​

~King James Version study Bible . (1997). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.​

​

​

 

[Deuteronomy]

One last thing @Micaiah-imla, please don't take my word for it alone. Rather, go and talk to your pastor about the meaning of "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 too

~Deut

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Hello again Miciah-imla, just like Isaiah 45:7, the verses you just mentioned above have nothing to do with the creation of "moral" evil by God.

I never said anything about "moral" evil.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

.. unless the meaning that you've assigned to certain words in the KJV is not correct, that is. When you do that (give the wrong meaning to a word in the Bible), you stop obeying God, and you end up obeying "Micaiah-imla" instead (because what you believe to be "obedience" to God ends up being "idolatry", even though it was unintentional).

The topic at hand has nothing to with instruction to be obeyed. We are simply viewing what a verse is saying about something God does, not us.

And to say that commandment verses are so vague that someone like me might not understood them is absurd.

For example:

When God says, Do not commit adultery, I know what God is saying there.

When Paul said, Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, I know what Paul is saying there.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I never said anything about "moral" evil.

I thought you did, and when I mentioned it both specifically and at length, it seemed that you also did when you replied to me by saying,

God's character isn't negatively affected by the implication that God created evil; He created ALL things.

.
I apologize for the misunderstanding!

I'm also very glad to know that you do not believe that God is the Author/Cause/Creator of moral evil.

~Deut

 

[garee]

All comes from God.

Adam and Eve did not have knowledge of good and evil until they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17).

I would offer. They had knowledge which can puff up and cause false pride. The love of God builds us up .He is the Potter .
We edify him who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure . . not of our owns selves But with Emanuel who has the power to work in us. . . making our load lighter.

The Loving commandment "do not eat". It was given with a desire they trust God not seen. He did not desire they like the deceiver experience a fall through false pride. . Satan make it about the things seen. Causing a moment of wonderment or wrestling with two kinds of thoughts.(yes and no) The spirit of error asked. Did God say? Questioning the authroity of God word. Then in effect he said look a me and live. Then our Lord took away the creature called a serpent's feet so he could not walk.

You could say he like Adam and Eve lost their ability to walk by faith or understand and believe a eternal God not seen

They had no faith coming from the commandment. "do not eat" . .

Fallen mankind like the fallen creature serpent in who the father of lies spoke through, putting his words on the creatures tongue. Because they cannot walk are both informed and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

He said it as a curse to the serpent in Geneisis3: 14 and to Cain in Geneisis3: 19

 

[garee]

Didn't God speak to Adam personally about not eating the fruit?

Yes mankind fell .Adam was to protect her, washing her with the water of the word.(the gospel) He turned his back. They together were deceived. The unit lost the virtue of Christ the third party and the two became brute beasts.

Psalm 73:21-23 New International Version (NIV)When my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered, I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before you. Yet I am always with you; you hold me by my right hand.

 

[Blik]

God created man to live apart from evil until Adam and Eve opened up evil in the Garden of Eden. Then God gave a way to protect us from evil.

God wants us to accept Christ and give over our sin to Him. God arranged for us to be freed from evil and take on only the good through Christ who protects us.

 

[jb]

Where did evil/sin come from?

Sin has no existence by itself, and was not created by God, who created all things. It is simply a possible attitude of soul, and its existence depends solely upon the will of the sinner. If all sinners repented all sin would disappear: it is only the eternal refusal of sinners to repent which would keep sin in eternal existence (hence why Hell (God's eternal prison) exists, for those who have shown they would sin eternally if allowed to). God is in no way responsible for it: He has created free wills, but not evil wills (as some theologians have stated, thus making God the Author of evil). Sin was the child of the first will which chose evil, although the possibility, but not the actuality of it, lay dormant in the freedom of the will: but sin has no separate existence by itself: it is only a possible attitude of will, leading to sinful actions of body.

 

[tantalon]

Sin has no existence by itself, and was not created by God, who created all things. It is simply a possible attitude of soul, and its existence depends solely upon the will of the sinner. If all sinners repented all sin would disappear: it is only the eternal refusal of sinners to repent which would keep sin in eternal existence (hence why Hell (God's eternal prison) exists, for those who have shown they would sin eternally if allowed to). God is in no way responsible for it: He has created free wills, but not evil wills (as some theologians have stated, thus making God the Author of evil). Sin was the child of the first will which chose evil, although the possibility, but not the actuality of it, lay dormant in the freedom of the will: but sin has no separate existence by itself: it is only a possible attitude of will, leading to sinful actions of body.

You have made the Word below your intellect and your intellect and reasoning above it. Isaiah 45:7 tells us, through the prophet, that God created evil, and that, for his purposes. Isaiah 45:7 and I quote: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things". The first line of your post tells us the opposite of what the scripture says.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

I have had this thought for some time, and cannot really get past it.

I like to write stories, and in them there are always an antagonist. Whatever level of evil this person is, to make him/her seem believable and have depth and character I always base him/her on parts of myself. I can exaggerate the level of evil from myself, but I cannot invent something that doesn’t really exist.

If I ask Christians where evil and good comes from, many would say that good has its origin in God and evil in Satan. But Satan was just an angel, created by God. Even if Lucifer was created to be good he turned evil. And if he did, how did he have the capacity of doing so if evil didn’t already exist?

That is a good question, my answer is that good and evil are in free will, angels had free will to do what they wanted to do, they chose to reject God. Its like a person that used to be good and friendly, through circumstances and jealousy they can become evil minded, i have seen that personally. What happened with the angels and with the humans are completely the same. The circumstances surrounding their fall is the same. The evil angels wanted to be like God and rule just as eve and Adam wanted that too, but what is ironic is they already had this capability, and that is what makes them so evil. I dont know and i am not sure if Adam and eve even got saved.

 

[soggykitten]

Yes mankind fell .Adam was to protect her, washing her with the water of the word.(the gospel) He turned his back. They together were deceived. The unit lost the virtue of Christ the third party and the two became brute beasts.

Psalm 73:21-23 New International Version (NIV)When my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered, I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before you. Yet I am always with you; you hold me by my right hand.

That doesn't address my prior question.

 

[soggykitten]

You have made the Word below your intellect and your intellect and reasoning above it. Isaiah 45:7 tells us, through the prophet, that God created evil, and that, for his purposes. Isaiah 45:7 and I quote: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things". The first line of your post tells us the opposite of what the scripture says.

It isn't unusual to find such things in the church. We believe the words in the Bible are those of God. We believe God is the creator that the scripture defines as the source of all things. But, when it comes to particulars within creation that we don't like we defer to other as its source. We cherry pick and claim it isn't God that created that particular thing. Even when God tell us himself that he did.
It is a means of gaining control over what we're led to believe.