Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
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Hello Ahwatukee 
I agree that none are worthy, we all fall short, and that grace is unmerited favor. Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself if He be lifted up, which He has been, and we are also told that none are without excuse. If one has been chosen for destruction, is that not their excuse? How can they choose if the choice is neither meant for nor offered to them to make in the first place?
Can God do as He pleases? Why, yes, He can. However, He cannot act against His character nor renege on His promises.
I agree that none are worthy, we all fall short, and that grace is unmerited favor. Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself if He be lifted up, which He has been, and we are also told that none are without excuse. If one has been chosen for destruction, is that not their excuse? How can they choose if the choice is neither meant for nor offered to them to make in the first place? Can God do as He pleases? Why, yes, He can. However, He cannot act against His character nor renege on His promises.
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Hello Ahwatukee I agree that none are worthy, we all fall short, and that grace is unmerited favor. Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself if He be lifted up, which He has been, and we are also told that none are without excuse. If one has been chosen for destruction, is that not their excuse? How can they choose if the choice is neither meant for nor offered to them to make in the first place?
Can God do as He pleases? Why, yes, He can. However, He cannot act against His character nor renege on His promises.
I agree that none are worthy, we all fall short, and that grace is unmerited favor. Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself if He be lifted up, which He has been, and we are also told that none are without excuse. If one has been chosen for destruction, is that not their excuse? How can they choose if the choice is neither meant for nor offered to them to make in the first place? Can God do as He pleases? Why, yes, He can. However, He cannot act against His character nor renege on His promises.
"Drawing all men to Himself" refers to all those who were chosen for salvation before the world began, not all men period.
The problem with this is that people attempt to contend that salvation is in each individuals hands and by doing so they come in with only partial information, just you did. You ignore the other scriptures. Tell me, what do you make of the following:
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come."
I gave you the scripture above, as well as others that demonstrated predestination and you did not respond to them.
The scripture above demonstrates that before the world even began, there were names written in the book of life and there were names that were not written in the book of life. This is not based on man's effort or desires, but on God's Sovereign will.
You didn't comprehend anything thing that I said in the previous post, even though I provided the scriptures which supports this truth and you ignored them.
"When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were [appointed] for eternal life believed.
Since they were appointed for eternal life, it was not by their choosing, but by God's sovereign choice. God is the One did the appointing.
HELPS Word-studies
5021 tássō – properly, arrange (put in order); to place in a particular order, appoint; (figuratively) ordain, set in place; "station" (J. Thayer).
5021 /tássō ("place in position, post") was commonly used in ancient military language for "designating" ("appointing, commissioning") a specific status, i.e. arranging (placing) in a deliberate, fixed order.
Someone's doing the designating and arranging and it's not man, but God'.
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Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
John
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Please note WHY some will not find salvation. It is because they are of the number that WILLFULLY REJECT Jesus. No one is denied hope or the chance to go to Heaven. The end times are upon us folks. The "church" is rife and packed to overflow with the doctrines of devils.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
John
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Please note WHY some will not find salvation. It is because they are of the number that WILLFULLY REJECT Jesus. No one is denied hope or the chance to go to Heaven. The end times are upon us folks. The "church" is rife and packed to overflow with the doctrines of devils.
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No, I know I don't think that way. God did choose me and I do think that makes me special, so special in fact I want to obey Him and go do exactly what He commands and go out proclaiming His word to the whole world to save the others He is calling. I can say honestly that for the 6 years since He picked me up and gave me new life, I have not 1 time sat down and thought of myself as "more special" in worth over someone else, I don't believe that, everything God blessed me with He offers to ALL others, and it doesn't make me feel arrogance towards others, or better than them, it makes me feel compassion for them and makes me want to share the good news that God is calling them too.
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The reason there are cults, false churches, false gospels.....because people reject the inspired word of God.....the following is clear, the order of the verse is clear and so is the use of "and"..........it is not only utterly disgusting how some on this thread reject this, but also surprisingly tragic in the case of one particular individual.....Calvinism is not of God. It is divisive, it breeds elitism, it denies many biblical truths, it skews truth and it loves to divide and conquer.....it is false and the tenants pushed by it's man made dogma are false. I suggest a study of the GREEK WORD translated "AND" combined with HONESTY!
dcontroversal said:
Yeah....I disagree...the context of the verse is salvation....end of story!
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
AND is clear, the knowledge of the truth is tied directly to salvation and this verse refutes one of the false tenants of calvinism!
dcontroversal said:
Yeah....I disagree...the context of the verse is salvation....end of story!
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
AND is clear, the knowledge of the truth is tied directly to salvation and this verse refutes one of the false tenants of calvinism!
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Good day!
As believers in Christ, we should not be basing our faith on Calvinism or any other group, but should be based solely ont he word of God. Why identify yourself as a Calvinist or any other group and not as a believer in Christ and His word.
And the only way that anyone is OSAS is if they continue in faith. We're not just saved because we said some words. Our lives have to reflect our decision. As believers in Christ, if we turn back to willfully practicing the sin, i.e. living according to the sinful nature, then we are accumulating sin in that state and on our way to condemnation, unless we turn back to God in faith.
"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
My brothers = James is speaking to believers
If one of you should wander from the truth = turning from faith and going back into the world
Whoever turns a sinner/wanderer from the error of his way = saves the wander from death and covers over a multitude of sins
In addition, anyone who believes in Amillennialism, is simply ignoring the plain literal meaning of the scriptures, which repeat the words "a thousand years" six times but instead opt for an allegorical interpretation, which the context does not require.
As believers in Christ, we should not be basing our faith on Calvinism or any other group, but should be based solely ont he word of God. Why identify yourself as a Calvinist or any other group and not as a believer in Christ and His word.
And the only way that anyone is OSAS is if they continue in faith. We're not just saved because we said some words. Our lives have to reflect our decision. As believers in Christ, if we turn back to willfully practicing the sin, i.e. living according to the sinful nature, then we are accumulating sin in that state and on our way to condemnation, unless we turn back to God in faith.
"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
My brothers = James is speaking to believers
If one of you should wander from the truth = turning from faith and going back into the world
Whoever turns a sinner/wanderer from the error of his way = saves the wander from death and covers over a multitude of sins
In addition, anyone who believes in Amillennialism, is simply ignoring the plain literal meaning of the scriptures, which repeat the words "a thousand years" six times but instead opt for an allegorical interpretation, which the context does not require.
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Lol, one posts Scripture showing undeniably that God predestines and chooses whom He wills, and the other posts Scripture only in attempt to negate said truth. "Here! I'll undo that truth with this verse over here! There! I neutralized that! Never liked that verse anyhow!!!"
Anti-Cals, pitting Scripture against Scripture, taking it out of context, melding verses together to rewrite the narrative, day in, day out.
Anti-Cals, pitting Scripture against Scripture, taking it out of context, melding verses together to rewrite the narrative, day in, day out.
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Lol, one posts Scripture showing undeniably that God predestines and chooses whom He wills, and the other posts Scripture only in attempt to negate said truth. "Here! I'll undo that truth with this verse over here! There! I neutralized that! Never liked that verse anyhow!!!"
Anti-Cals, pitting Scripture against Scripture, taking it out of context, melding verses together to rewrite the narrative, day in, day out.
Anti-Cals, pitting Scripture against Scripture, taking it out of context, melding verses together to rewrite the narrative, day in, day out.
This is what you are best at sadly. But I see nothing to laugh at. I'm not even laughing at you, as foolish as this post is. You just do not seem able to actually address what gospel oriented people here post and you actually lie about what they post.
It's sad to see.
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Hello oyster67!
The reason that they reject Jesus, is because the Father is not drawing them. And that because their names were not written in the book of life before the world began.
God so loved the world = Those whom God chose to be saved before the world began throughout all of history. Did you read the following?
"‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
to bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were [appointed] for eternal life believed.
=======================================================
See, I lay in Zion a stone,
a chosen and precious cornerstone;
and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame.”
To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
and,
“A stone of stumbling
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word—and to this they were appointed.
==================================================
“I already told you,” Jesus replied, “but you did not believe. The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf. 26But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
The above is talking about election. They refuse to believe because they are not the Lord's sheep. It is the Father who appointed and gave all believers to Jesus.
Salvation is not in man's hands, but is by God's Soverign will.
The reason that they reject Jesus, is because the Father is not drawing them. And that because their names were not written in the book of life before the world began.
God so loved the world = Those whom God chose to be saved before the world began throughout all of history. Did you read the following?
"‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
to bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were [appointed] for eternal life believed.
=======================================================
See, I lay in Zion a stone,
a chosen and precious cornerstone;
and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame.”
To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
and,
“A stone of stumbling
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word—and to this they were appointed.
==================================================
“I already told you,” Jesus replied, “but you did not believe. The works I do in My Father’s name testify on My behalf. 26But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
The above is talking about election. They refuse to believe because they are not the Lord's sheep. It is the Father who appointed and gave all believers to Jesus.
Salvation is not in man's hands, but is by God's Soverign will.
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L
Like I said, only if I thought He chose me based on some merit of my own..
it reveals His sovereignty. that it is His purpose in election, showing mercy to whom He will.
that we, like Job, cannot answer back to Him - only clap our hands over our mouths - that anything else is empty arrogance.
the accusation is commonly made, that if God chooses one and not the other, that God is being capricious, or that God is 'unfair' -- in my opinion this argument is predicated on the idea that 'everyone deserves their fair shake' from God. but the fact is that all of us stand guilty as charged, undeserving of anything but condemnation. which is why it's called "mercy" -- because yeah, if He doesn't save me, i am getting exactly what i deserve. just because someone across town wins the lottery doesn't mean it's unjust that i didn't also. i don't deserve to win the lottery, and neither did that guy across town - he received a blessing. it's called a blessing because it wasn't something he earned. what we both 'earned' is death, because we both have sin.
God doesn't have to give anyone eternal life. He was just to wipe out the whole earth with the flood -- and gracious to spare Noah. if He erased every one of us, He'd still be just. He doesn't owe me. if He grants me life -- i owe Him everything
it reveals His sovereignty. that it is His purpose in election, showing mercy to whom He will.
that we, like Job, cannot answer back to Him - only clap our hands over our mouths - that anything else is empty arrogance.
the accusation is commonly made, that if God chooses one and not the other, that God is being capricious, or that God is 'unfair' -- in my opinion this argument is predicated on the idea that 'everyone deserves their fair shake' from God. but the fact is that all of us stand guilty as charged, undeserving of anything but condemnation. which is why it's called "mercy" -- because yeah, if He doesn't save me, i am getting exactly what i deserve. just because someone across town wins the lottery doesn't mean it's unjust that i didn't also. i don't deserve to win the lottery, and neither did that guy across town - he received a blessing. it's called a blessing because it wasn't something he earned. what we both 'earned' is death, because we both have sin.
God doesn't have to give anyone eternal life. He was just to wipe out the whole earth with the flood -- and gracious to spare Noah. if He erased every one of us, He'd still be just. He doesn't owe me. if He grants me life -- i owe Him everything
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The following is from an excerpt from Questions.com, which is in agreement with what I have understood from the word of God regarding God as being the One who is the One doing the saving. And that based solely on His Sovereign will and not by anything we have done or could do.
Ephesians 1:5 tells us that God “predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.” According to this verse, the basis of our being predestined is not something that we do or will do, but is based solely on the will of God for His own pleasure. As Romans 9:15-16 says, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.” Similarly, Romans 9:11 declares regarding Jacob and Esau, “Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls.” Then again in Ephesians 1:11 we see that people are “chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” From these and many other passages, we see that Scripture consistently teaches that predestination or election is not based upon something that we do or will do. God predestined people based on His own sovereign will to redeem for Himself people from every tribe, tongue, and nation. God predetermined or predestined this from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) based solely on His sovereign will and not because of anything that He knew the people would do.
Ephesians 1:5 tells us that God “predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.” According to this verse, the basis of our being predestined is not something that we do or will do, but is based solely on the will of God for His own pleasure. As Romans 9:15-16 says, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.” Similarly, Romans 9:11 declares regarding Jacob and Esau, “Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls.” Then again in Ephesians 1:11 we see that people are “chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” From these and many other passages, we see that Scripture consistently teaches that predestination or election is not based upon something that we do or will do. God predestined people based on His own sovereign will to redeem for Himself people from every tribe, tongue, and nation. God predetermined or predestined this from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) based solely on His sovereign will and not because of anything that He knew the people would do.
Based on the rest of the scriptures: "Not willing that any = those who whose names were not written in the book of life before the world began, whom God predestined and foreknew.
You have to bring in all of the scriptures regarding this or any issue in order to come to a right interpretation. Therefore the "any" in the scripture refers to those whom God chose before the world began. By ignoring the other scriptures, you interpret "any" as all of mankind, which is false based on the other scriptures. How do you interpret the following:
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come." - Rev.17:8
"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain." - Rev.13:8
It tells me that, before the world even began, some names were written in the book of life and some were not. And this is not based on man's efforts or desires, but on God's Sovereing will.
You have to bring in all of the scriptures regarding this or any issue in order to come to a right interpretation. Therefore the "any" in the scripture refers to those whom God chose before the world began. By ignoring the other scriptures, you interpret "any" as all of mankind, which is false based on the other scriptures. How do you interpret the following:
"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come." - Rev.17:8
"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain." - Rev.13:8
It tells me that, before the world even began, some names were written in the book of life and some were not. And this is not based on man's efforts or desires, but on God's Sovereing will.
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Agree.... "world" "any" "all" etc. are all secret code words for ELECT ... Once you become ELECTED you are blessed to understand the new and improved definitions.
This what He is really saying
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward/ELECT, not willing that ELECT should perish, but that ELECT should come to repentance..... as was explained right on this thread by our resident in chief Calvinist.
This what He is really saying
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward/ELECT, not willing that ELECT should perish, but that ELECT should come to repentance..... as was explained right on this thread by our resident in chief Calvinist.
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