Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
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Probably because Scripture says so and she happens to believe all of it.
God isn't just a merciful God, as you truncate his attributes incessantly to fit this to your narrative. He exercises mercy on whom he wills, and hardens some not showing them mercy. That's a fact, and he is just to do so. He has full right to judge any man in sin, and exercise justice on any man at will without them having an opportunity to "choose" or even hear the Gospel.
Note everyone the text in Exodus 33:12-23; Romans 9:11ff.
God has elected whom he willed to save by his purpose, counsel and will, based upon nothing good in them, not based in that they would choose him, but solely based in his purpose, counsel and will, and is pure unmerited favor, aka grace.
You don't like those facts and try to put him in a box to fit into your logic of what you deem to be "fair."
Guess what?
God doesn't bow to any mans demands of what he may deem to be fair, or of what man may deem unfair and then claim he cannot be God. He's God in spite of mans demands.
He does as he wills as said above. One can believe the testimony of Scripture that proves this, or one can be the man in Romans 9:19-20.
@Rosemaryx I am glad to see how you have grown in Scripture, grace, knowledge and haven't allowed truncated versions of "God" and man made narratives of how he should act to affect you. Stick to the whole counsel of God. Do not feel intimidated by any man.
God isn't just a merciful God, as you truncate his attributes incessantly to fit this to your narrative. He exercises mercy on whom he wills, and hardens some not showing them mercy. That's a fact, and he is just to do so. He has full right to judge any man in sin, and exercise justice on any man at will without them having an opportunity to "choose" or even hear the Gospel.
Note everyone the text in Exodus 33:12-23; Romans 9:11ff.
God has elected whom he willed to save by his purpose, counsel and will, based upon nothing good in them, not based in that they would choose him, but solely based in his purpose, counsel and will, and is pure unmerited favor, aka grace.
You don't like those facts and try to put him in a box to fit into your logic of what you deem to be "fair."
Guess what?
God doesn't bow to any mans demands of what he may deem to be fair, or of what man may deem unfair and then claim he cannot be God. He's God in spite of mans demands.
He does as he wills as said above. One can believe the testimony of Scripture that proves this, or one can be the man in Romans 9:19-20.
@Rosemaryx I am glad to see how you have grown in Scripture, grace, knowledge and haven't allowed truncated versions of "God" and man made narratives of how he should act to affect you. Stick to the whole counsel of God. Do not feel intimidated by any man.
How’s your obedience going?
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When we get derailed in our love for God by focusing on “works of obedience” we end up losing our FIRST LOVE.....
Just Repent and Return to the Gospel, Remember and STAY IN FIRST LOVE - DO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF FIRST LOVE - great joy and strength in Christ!!! Lots of praise and worship!
Just Repent and Return to the Gospel, Remember and STAY IN FIRST LOVE - DO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF FIRST LOVE - great joy and strength in Christ!!! Lots of praise and worship!
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You’re doing it guy. Your putting words in my mouth I didn’t say. Jumping to conclusions I haven’t made.
You HATE when you believe people are doing that to you. Please recognize that is what you are doing to me right now.
I put 5 or 6 different passages of Scripture, from different authors, saying God chose us, not the other way around. None have been answered or refuted.
I didn’t say anything, about anybody else. And I feel no animosity towards those that don’t believe that.
So believe what ya like. I got no problem with that.
You HATE when you believe people are doing that to you. Please recognize that is what you are doing to me right now.
I put 5 or 6 different passages of Scripture, from different authors, saying God chose us, not the other way around. None have been answered or refuted.
I didn’t say anything, about anybody else. And I feel no animosity towards those that don’t believe that.
So believe what ya like. I got no problem with that.
Everything goes back to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We are told: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17) The word NOT is a reversal. You either eat or you don't eat. Everywhere in the Bible "do not" means "do not". But in the story of the tree of the knowledge people want to say it was God's will for them to disobey Him. We have Calvan, Smith, Wesley and all of these people have their opinion about this story. It was actually to the serpent that God said: "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” (Genesis 3:5) Eve's offspring is Jesus. I would like to see the conversation between Eve and Mary. Because it was actually Mary that birthed Jesus into this world. If we do not understand the first word in the Bible: "Beginning". If we do not understand the first three chapters in Genesis, then nothing else in the Bible is going to make any sense to us. "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" (Isaiah 46:10)
It is interesting they think we are deprived. But the Bible says everything (all) was VERY GOOD. "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." (Genesis 1:31, KJV) If they are depraved it is because they disobeyed God and He gave them over to a depraved mind. "God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done." (Romans 1:28)
It is interesting they think we are deprived. But the Bible says everything (all) was VERY GOOD. "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." (Genesis 1:31, KJV) If they are depraved it is because they disobeyed God and He gave them over to a depraved mind. "God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done." (Romans 1:28)
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Yes, the Jacob/Esau love/hate dynamic is best understood by acknowledging that Jacob and Esau are identified in Scripture as nations = Jacob (Israel) being those who will believe and be saved, and Esau being the enemies of God who will suffer the second death.
Also, as to the hardening of the heart, this is also shown clearly in Scripture with Pharaoh, who hardened his own heart multiple times before God further hardened it in order to show forth His supremacy and power over Egypt's many false gods. Each of the plagues deal with specific false gods
Also, as to the hardening of the heart, this is also shown clearly in Scripture with Pharaoh, who hardened his own heart multiple times before God further hardened it in order to show forth His supremacy and power over Egypt's many false gods. Each of the plagues deal with specific false gods
the beat way to see Jacob and esau is that god did not chose jacob because he was first born or that he was chosen by man, he was chosen by God, as scripture said,
Genesis 25:23
And the Lord said to her: “Two nations are in your womb, Two peoples shall be separated from your body; One people shall be stronger than the other, And the older shall serve the younger.”
and also this
Malachi 1:2
[ Israel Beloved of God ] “I have loved you,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord. “Yet Jacob I have loved; 3. But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”
and understand god is not talking about two kids,or the saved and unsaved, but two nations. one chosen by God, and one who rejected God,
sometimes it is best not to add anything to the word. but just take it for what it says.
vs 6. It is not as if the word of God has Not taken affect, This is the argument paul uses to show hw god did not make a mistake in choosing Israel
The Bible talks about the will of God. 'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.' (Matthew 7:21) We are given a choice to do the will of God or not to do the will of God. We choose life or death, blessing or curse, sickness or health, poverty or prosperity: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live" (Deut30:19)
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"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Rev-20:12)
God writes the book of life before we are born. How well we follow His will for us is recorded in the books that we are judged by. Revelation 3:5 says, “The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life.
God writes the book of life before we are born. How well we follow His will for us is recorded in the books that we are judged by. Revelation 3:5 says, “The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life.
This is what I believe were the order of events of my Salvation.
I was spiritually dead.
I heard the Gospel. My faith given to me by God was “activated” upon hearing it. With that faith I confessed with my mouth and believed in my heart.
I was born again, a NEW creation in Jesus Christ.
No labels. No fancy doctrines. Just that.
I was spiritually dead.
I heard the Gospel. My faith given to me by God was “activated” upon hearing it. With that faith I confessed with my mouth and believed in my heart.
I was born again, a NEW creation in Jesus Christ.
No labels. No fancy doctrines. Just that.
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Don’t forget ole Pelagius way back in the 300’s, the OG free will’er. If you read some of his teachings it seems he knew that man could not have faith unto salvation in his current state so instead of accepting the biblical doctrine of election he chose to deny the imputation Adam’s sin. At least he realized the doctrine of free will does not work with the doctrine of the fall of man. 🤦♂️
These modern day Pelagians/Arminians just scream WHOSOEVER, ALL MEN... with complete disregard for the tsunami of destruction it creates to other doctrines such as the fall, the atonement, grace...
These modern day Pelagians/Arminians just scream WHOSOEVER, ALL MEN... with complete disregard for the tsunami of destruction it creates to other doctrines such as the fall, the atonement, grace...
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Exactly, it is sad. The God of Scripture presented in all His glory is met with hostility by those who also say they were never at enmity with God. Hmmmm. It appears these may actually be at enmity with the true God of Scripture after all.
People despise the exercise of His justice and count Him as unfair if he does so without granting grace and mercy.
People despise the exercise of His justice and count Him as unfair if he does so without granting grace and mercy.
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