Amen! You are right! But he said them out loud and I am glad we have his words recorded for us today!
By Works
- Thread starter Chester
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Amen! You are right! But he said them out loud and I am glad we have his words recorded for us today!
Amen!There's going to be a time you/we figure out we work (ooh key word) out our own salvation. So that.. its not what others are doing.. what are you doing? You/flesh can not be part of this. For no man will glory in His sight. Its ALL Him and to Him alone gets all the glory and praise.
Its easy.. just say "here I am lord .. use me". And let Him lead.none of this could have been done with out Him..with out you saying I believe in Jesus and that new birth. Its the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. So the good works.. are of the spirit.. its all HIM in you. We have to get over it..its all Him. Everything right now.. its all HIM! Take Him out.. and theres no thing here.
He looks for the one.. that will simply say yes.
All without being water baptized following his repentance and belief
Good one! But SHhhhhh! We don't want "baptism" added to this thread!
He was being put to death for thievery and murder (when all accounts of Barabbas and his gang is viewed from scripture) HE HAD NO WORKS, ZERO, NONE and was saved by FAITH!
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
You keep making these accusations
who tell are you talking about?
can you prove people here are teaching this?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Some people find this hard to understand, that this is true
the thief had evidence of conversion, because in faith he called out to God (remember me when you enter your kingdom) and through that faith he was saved, (today you will be with me in paradise). And his emotion and demeanor changed, he praised god, because he was saved by grace through faith
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Jesus did not need evidence,
this evidence stuff is for the birds,
people act like christians who are no more Gods children than a heathen, and people who are christian could be prodigal children or babes in Christ, and you would never think they are saved,
that’s why evidence is a faulty interpretor Of who is truly saved and who is not
Its not that the bible is in disagreement with itself.
It is only your understanding that does not stand up because you consider one verse to be at odds with what you are thinking the others are saying.
Everything you do is works!
They can be the works after the flesh pursuing your lusts and the pride of your own reason.
They can be the works after the law pursuing your self righteousness.
They can be the works after faith pursuing the love of God.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes agree.
It is a wonderful passage of conversion that is displayed.
I was thinking about those that talk about evidence of conversion they have to see later an over time to determine if the conversion was genuine.
With the thief on the cross his conversion is the evidence... not some works he had to do to prove it.
He was saved by faith and there were no works.
Paul and Silas did not wait for works from the jailer to prove his conversion they took him to be baptized.
His works being his shouting out in faith. What he did with that faith was his works of faith.
Which saved him.
IF you confess with your mouth (works of faith ) Jesus as lord and believe in your heart (faith) you shall be saved.
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EleventhHour
Guest
I guess we don't agree.
If our words are not works the how does confession work?
Psalm 104:24
O LORD, how many are Your works! In wisdom You have made them all; The earth is full of Your possessions.
And all God did was speak.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us
hmm ... EXERCISE.... sounds like Work
but seriously, i think you missed the point maybe ... and the verse:
Chester said:
By Works!
(James 2)Blue_OF_Lake said:
without works = we are dead. life IS work and so likewise with Spiritual matters.
" 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: " ... then comes the "Rest".
this is a Spiritual concept.
don't forget to Work first! Thus we shall come to see the Kingdom. ☺
"6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
I missed nothing, faith alone saved the thief on the cross without one work on his behalf!!hmm ... EXERCISE.... sounds like Work
but seriously, i think you missed the point maybe ... and the verse:
Chester said:
By Works!
Blue_OF_Lake said:
without works = we are dead. life IS work and so likewise with Spiritual matters.
" 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: " ... then comes the "Rest".
this is a Spiritual concept.
don't forget to Work first! Thus we shall come to see the Kingdom. ☺
"6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
Get your facts straight pal!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Not of works lest anyone should boast Eph 2hmm ... EXERCISE.... sounds like Work
but seriously, i think you missed the point maybe ... and the verse:
Chester said:
By Works!
Blue_OF_Lake said:
without works = we are dead. life IS work and so likewise with Spiritual matters.
" 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: " ... then comes the "Rest".
this is a Spiritual concept.
don't forget to Work first! Thus we shall come to see the Kingdom. ☺
"6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
if abraham was found by works he has something to boast (Rom 4)
not by works of righteousness which we have done Titus 3
what part of “not of works” are you not understanding?
Somehow you and some others seem to be missing the point of this thread. There is another thread going called "not of works" which emphasizes that salvation is by faith, and not by works.
This thread is based on what James says - 4 times he says "by works" (see post #1). This thread is intended to amplify and encourage us to move and live in victory over sin and to bring honor and glory to God by our lives.
Of course the thief on the cross was saved by believing - and of course Abraham was saved by believing! Absolutely - and that truth is so foundational and underlies anything and everything that James or any of us discuss when we talk about how to live above sin and do works (through the power of the Spirit) for God's glory!
What is the point in trying to argue that the thief on the cross was saved by faith "without any works"? It is clear that he gave a public testimony in front of all that were there to hear. That is powerful! Dying and yet clearly and publicly testifying of his faith in Christ! Nobody here is saying the thief was saved by his works, or at least I haven't seen it! (Take that back - I see some here may be saying something close to that!
)
What do you mean by this statement "work first" - then we shall see the Kingdom
Do you believe that we do works in order to be justified before God? Do our works bring us salvation?
According to wikipedia, "In the Christian theology, justification is God's righteous act of removing the guilt and penalty of sin while, at the same time, declaring the ungodly too be righteous, through faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice."It's you who remains incorrect and as I already previously explained, you cannot dissect works of faith/good works from the moral aspect of the law. In John 1:17, we read - For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Yet in Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Works of faith/good works are not "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18).
Once again, in James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would be to love your neighbor as yourself.
*In Romans 13:8-10, we read - Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
What work is that? Did Paul forget to mention that work in Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9? Can you show me where Paul said man is saved by grace through faith plus a work done in faith? I can't find that verse in my Bible.
When a person is justified by faith before God they are accounted as righteous in the sight of God. (Romans 4:2-6)
The apostle Paul did not say we are righteous under the law, but he did say we are not justified by the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16) Romans 3:27 - Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. In Romans 10:4, Paul also said - For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
We are justified by faith and have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:1-2) Nothing there about faith and works done out of faith.
Are you saying that the believer is saved by faith plus works done in faith?
Say what? In Ephesians 2:10, the apostle Paul said - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Paul is talking about good works (plural) here and these good works are done in faith. How would that be of the law under the old testament?It's very difficult to follow your unorthodox logic.
I have read Romans 10:8-10 very closely and Paul did not refer to confession here as a "work of faith." Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord is an expression of faith and not a work for salvation.
I've heard people interpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together.
Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to/merely reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.
Someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally confess with their mouth. Where did James mention "confession" as being both the word and work of faith in James chapter 2?
Basically the same as I have been saying from the beginning.
Those under the old covenant could be righteous, through RIGHT LIVING, but could NOT, I repeat, NOT be justified before God through the same works/deeds/acts, because their works were still polluted and seen as filthy rags.
If anyone laid a hammer to a rock when building an alter, God said it would be polluted. The same would hold true for other acts of obedience and love for God and man. Doesn't matter if you are a believer or not. Without faith, everything done, will be place under the law.
Those who attained righteousness through the law, only lived right by being obedient to the law, but Abraham acted on his faith in God's promise, thereby attaining justification.
Abraham was justified/acquitted, through his act of faith, by offering Isaac as his sacrifice to God.
He was NOT justified when he believed God, but accounted righteous.
As Paul said in Rom 10:10, "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness,..."
He did NOT say, 'believeth unto justification'.
Those who do good deeds, such as giving to the poor, are NOT demonstrating the "true faith" you speak of.
They might be giving out of the compassion of their heart because of the Spirit of Christ in them, but how does that demonstrate they have the true faith, and how is that even faith?
A good example of a work done in faith is when Peter commanded the man, at the gate Beautiful, to "rise up and walk" and then proceeded pulled the man to his feet, BEFORE he saw any change in the man's impotent feet.
Who did Peter and the man give glory to?
He gave it to God because it wasn't Peter's power that gave strength to the man's feet, but God's power.
For God's power and strength is made perfect through our weaknesses or inability to heal, deliver, protect, answer prayer, or even get saved.
For salvation, one MUST not only believe in the Lord Jesus, but they ABSOLUTELY MUST, I REPEAT, MUST CONFESS Jesus as their Lord and savior, and if they can't speak, then they can do sign language, which again, is an act of faith.
It is VERY CLEAR in Romans 10:8, that one must both believe in their heart and CONFESS with their mouth to be saved, and the confession is the act of faith.
Again it is written, "Death and LIFE, IS IN THE POWER OF THE TONGUE,... and they SHALL EAT THE FRUIT THEREOF."
The power of life in Christ Jesus is in the faith act or work of the tongue.