Ordination
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As long as it is biblically sound, I’m good with it.
When it’s done in accordance to man’s tradition, I’m not good with it.
Should it be sought for?
Well:
1 Timothy 3
[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
Most Preachers have no problem with mentioning The life of Christ, His miracles and good works...but if Jesus Christ had come and done all the things and not been Crucified and made the Sacrifice, there could be no one that can be saved. None of His miracles saved a person. The majority of Preachers are ok with preaching Jesus only, but Paul clearly said, we preach Christ Crucified. It was Jesus Christ act at Calvary that saved mankind. Paul didn’t say we preach Christ the miracle worker. He didn’t say we preach Christ the sick healer, but we preach Christ Crucified. Therefore, if the Preacher is not pointing every “jot and tittle” of the word of God to Calvary, Christ becomes of no benefit to the Believer. If the Preacher doesn’t believe this or understand this, it becomes a wasted sermon without power of the Holy Ghost. The Preacher must preach Christ Crucified only. And the Believer Faith must be placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified to receive Grace, the benefits of this resurrection life. Deny yourself and take up your cross.
99% of the things preach is a bag of flesh!
99% of the things preach is a bag of flesh!
God's way vs. man's way. That is what I wonder about. Should it be done by the Lot? Should one keep silence if not ordained?
Anybody who thinks that any other thing works, except for what God did in Christ at the Cross is a drunken thinker spiritually. They are not sober minded spiritually (Rom. 12:3). God is only working in that narrow way. Jesus said, "ONLY A FEW WILL FIND IT (Matthew 7:14)." Beware of these religious types with a form of godliness, mixing Truth with mans schemes. Proverbs 4:18-19
While one’s faith is in anything other than the cross, such as the Purpose Driven, The Government of 12, or any other of the golden calves men have brought into the Church, they walk in blindness with only a deceiving FORM, but no power (2 Timothy 3:5). To think we need something other than what God has provided for us in Christ and His atoning work at Calvary, is to tell God, “The Cross was not enough.” Until the Church returns to faith in the Cross alone, there will be no repentance granted, for repentance can only take place as one acknowledges the Truth (2 Timothy 2:24-26), which is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. The Cross is what God did in Christ to save and to transform all who will believe upon Him. Anything else is a self transformational ministry and is of Satan (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). Trust Christ and HIS WORK at the Cross and you will find the power of God you need daily, as it is called Grace!
When we look back at Exodus Chapter 32, we see that only one tribe of twelve walked away from their own self righteous idol building bondage. Just one! It is the same today! There is a way that seems right to man, but the end of that way is death (Proverbs 14:12, 16:25). There is only one Way that God sees as right for ALL men, and that is the Way of His Son, Jesus Christ, The Way of Righteousness, that being the Way of the Cross! Those who are a part of THAT faith, are supporting THAT faith!
Only one tribe of the twelve tribes of Israel came out from among the Golden Calf worshippers in Exodus 32. The Way of the Cross might feel lonely, but we are never alone!
We March On!
Out of 603,550 men who were readied for war that came out of Egypt under the power of God (Numbers 1:44-46), only two took their inheritance; Joshua (a type of Christ) and Caleb (a type of the body of Christ) (Matthew 7:14). There is only one message that changes the body of Christ into the image of Christ, and that is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
Jesus Christ and Him Crucified alone is the only answer for mankind...not human reasoning!
While one’s faith is in anything other than the cross, such as the Purpose Driven, The Government of 12, or any other of the golden calves men have brought into the Church, they walk in blindness with only a deceiving FORM, but no power (2 Timothy 3:5). To think we need something other than what God has provided for us in Christ and His atoning work at Calvary, is to tell God, “The Cross was not enough.” Until the Church returns to faith in the Cross alone, there will be no repentance granted, for repentance can only take place as one acknowledges the Truth (2 Timothy 2:24-26), which is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. The Cross is what God did in Christ to save and to transform all who will believe upon Him. Anything else is a self transformational ministry and is of Satan (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). Trust Christ and HIS WORK at the Cross and you will find the power of God you need daily, as it is called Grace!
When we look back at Exodus Chapter 32, we see that only one tribe of twelve walked away from their own self righteous idol building bondage. Just one! It is the same today! There is a way that seems right to man, but the end of that way is death (Proverbs 14:12, 16:25). There is only one Way that God sees as right for ALL men, and that is the Way of His Son, Jesus Christ, The Way of Righteousness, that being the Way of the Cross! Those who are a part of THAT faith, are supporting THAT faith!
Only one tribe of the twelve tribes of Israel came out from among the Golden Calf worshippers in Exodus 32. The Way of the Cross might feel lonely, but we are never alone!
We March On!
Out of 603,550 men who were readied for war that came out of Egypt under the power of God (Numbers 1:44-46), only two took their inheritance; Joshua (a type of Christ) and Caleb (a type of the body of Christ) (Matthew 7:14). There is only one message that changes the body of Christ into the image of Christ, and that is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
Jesus Christ and Him Crucified alone is the only answer for mankind...not human reasoning!
What does any of this have to do with the thread topic of ordination?Anybody who thinks that any other thing works, except for what God did in Christ at the Cross is a drunken thinker spiritually. They are not sober minded spiritually (Rom. 12:3). God is only working in that narrow way. Jesus said, "ONLY A FEW WILL FIND IT (Matthew 7:14)." Beware of these religious types with a form of godliness, mixing Truth with mans schemes. Proverbs 4:18-19
While one’s faith is in anything other than the cross, such as the Purpose Driven, The Government of 12, or any other of the golden calves men have brought into the Church, they walk in blindness with only a deceiving FORM, but no power (2 Timothy 3:5). To think we need something other than what God has provided for us in Christ and His atoning work at Calvary, is to tell God, “The Cross was not enough.” Until the Church returns to faith in the Cross alone, there will be no repentance granted, for repentance can only take place as one acknowledges the Truth (2 Timothy 2:24-26), which is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified. The Cross is what God did in Christ to save and to transform all who will believe upon Him. Anything else is a self transformational ministry and is of Satan (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). Trust Christ and HIS WORK at the Cross and you will find the power of God you need daily, as it is called Grace!
When we look back at Exodus Chapter 32, we see that only one tribe of twelve walked away from their own self righteous idol building bondage. Just one! It is the same today! There is a way that seems right to man, but the end of that way is death (Proverbs 14:12, 16:25). There is only one Way that God sees as right for ALL men, and that is the Way of His Son, Jesus Christ, The Way of Righteousness, that being the Way of the Cross! Those who are a part of THAT faith, are supporting THAT faith!
Only one tribe of the twelve tribes of Israel came out from among the Golden Calf worshippers in Exodus 32. The Way of the Cross might feel lonely, but we are never alone!
We March On!
Out of 603,550 men who were readied for war that came out of Egypt under the power of God (Numbers 1:44-46), only two took their inheritance; Joshua (a type of Christ) and Caleb (a type of the body of Christ) (Matthew 7:14). There is only one message that changes the body of Christ into the image of Christ, and that is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
Jesus Christ and Him Crucified alone is the only answer for mankind...not human reasoning!
I will take good preachin' whenever and wherever I can get it.
Agreed, but as MoTC is a Jimmy Swaggart disciple, and most of his posts are actually cut-and-paste quotations from Swaggart publications, I would exclude his contributions from that category.I will take good preachin' whenever and wherever I can get it.
Absolutely. Ordination -- as generally practiced -- is not the same as being ordained by God.
The gifts and calling of God should be the primary requisite. Also creating a division between clergy and laity is not supported by Scripture. Particularly when the clergy are given certain powers over and above the priesthood of believers.
S
Scribe
Guest
The doctrine of the ministry comes to mind. There is definitely a revealed Will of God in the scriptures concerning a call to preach and that of being sent by the church. The reason I am seeking ordination in the Assemblies of God is that I believe that it is God's method to be involved in the local church and to have leadership of other called and ordained preachers who lay hands on you and send you forth to fulfill the great commission whatever that may look like. The examples we have in the book of Acts is why I chose to follow this path. I saw that the local church is God's method. And that the presbytery laying hands on you and the Holy Spirit imparting gifts for ministry is also God's method.
I had a very high paying IT consulting job and I could have easily paid the rent on a store front church and just started a church on my own, just "faith in God" and could have done that for as long as necessary until the congregation could pay for the rent and utilities. It would have been easy. Many are doing it. But I did not believe that it was God's will because he made it clear to me that this sort of thing should be done as a result of the body of Christ sending out men full of the Holy Ghost and the laying on of hands of the presbytery and there are so many reasons for this but the main one is that God is in it, and supports it. I need the Holy Spirit to be empowering everything I do or it is not ministry by my definition of ministry. We have enough men just doing things they got the idea to do with no Holy Spirit anointing on it and it is just another personality driven work of flesh.
Ordination is a biblical concept. And from these scriptures and others I did not take the time to look up and post we get the idea that leadership did lay hands on those who were markedly called and gifted to be sent out for ministry. There is an impartation of the Holy Spirit that takes place, it is not a vain ceremony. At least not in the pentecostal churches.
Acts 14:23
And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.
1 Timothy 5:22
Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
Acts 6:3
Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
Titus 1:5
This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—
When the church at Jerusalem heard what had happened, they sent Barnabas to Antioch.
Acts 11
27Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius). 29So the disciples determined, every one according to his ability, to send relief to the brothersd living in Judea. 30And they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul
I had a very high paying IT consulting job and I could have easily paid the rent on a store front church and just started a church on my own, just "faith in God" and could have done that for as long as necessary until the congregation could pay for the rent and utilities. It would have been easy. Many are doing it. But I did not believe that it was God's will because he made it clear to me that this sort of thing should be done as a result of the body of Christ sending out men full of the Holy Ghost and the laying on of hands of the presbytery and there are so many reasons for this but the main one is that God is in it, and supports it. I need the Holy Spirit to be empowering everything I do or it is not ministry by my definition of ministry. We have enough men just doing things they got the idea to do with no Holy Spirit anointing on it and it is just another personality driven work of flesh.
Ordination is a biblical concept. And from these scriptures and others I did not take the time to look up and post we get the idea that leadership did lay hands on those who were markedly called and gifted to be sent out for ministry. There is an impartation of the Holy Spirit that takes place, it is not a vain ceremony. At least not in the pentecostal churches.
Acts 14:23
And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.
1 Timothy 5:22
Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
Acts 6:3
Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
Titus 1:5
This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—
When the church at Jerusalem heard what had happened, they sent Barnabas to Antioch.
Acts 11
27Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius). 29So the disciples determined, every one according to his ability, to send relief to the brothersd living in Judea. 30And they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul
C
cuz
Guest
do you think that it should line up with what Paul laid out ?
1 Timothy 3
Paul talks about these
by the way Im one who did not make the cut
and i found that a blessing to know thats not for me
It seems to me that man does not go by what is laid out
Good orators worry me. They have all week to prepare a few direct points, create an outline defining each point, and then the understanding of the moment in how they deliver these points to achieve the outcome they desire. A true ordained person of God has nothing prepared, because at any given time they follow the Holy Spirit's lead. Peter was on his way to the Temple when the beggar asked for alms. Peter, being led by the Spirit said, silver and gold have I none, but such as I have I give thee. Peter did not have an organization speech prepared. Even in his sermons he spoke from God's lead.
In my opinion, ordained is being led of the Spirit, not being prepared to win a debate.
In my opinion, ordained is being led of the Spirit, not being prepared to win a debate.
S
Scribe
Guest
Ordination is the appointing and sending forth. It is the church/leadership recognizing and agreeing with and supporting your call. It is a faith act of praying for you to be empowered by the Spirit to to represent the collective body of Christ when you go forth to ministry. These are the concepts behind the idea of Ordination in most churches.
Being prepared to preach in season and out of season, with or without preparation as empowered by the Holy Spirit is the life of being full of the Holy Ghost I agree. However whether a preacher has a week to prepare or is called upon in a moment without notice, their preaching will be more effective if they spend much time in the Word of God and Prayer as a lifestyle. It is not hard to preach great messages without notice if you have been preparing them in advance. The more Word you have in you the more will come out.
Nevertheless I believe that a preacher owes it to the people who take the time to come hear him to give them the best that he has.
I find no value in not preparing and thinking that whatever a preacher comes up with at the time is MORE of the Holy Spirit than what he came up with when he prayed and studied the word of God in preparation. As a matter of fact I would call that lazy, irresponsible and not an act of love toward those you are called to minister to. It is also a good way to be sidelined by God for not being faithful to the ministry.
And on that note, I must get off here for a few days as I have a sermon to preach on the 19th and need to use my time to prepare.
When God calls you He appoints you. And when He appoints you He anoints you. And when He anoints you and you are divinely positioned nothing can stop you. Anointing breaks yokes and anointing lifts burdens. Anointing creates excess to GLORY. When a person is anointed - the greater the anointing the greater the move of God in a place. An anointed person opens the heavens and the GLORY of the LORD comes and meets needs in a place. Talent and flesh is not a anointing; it’s tinkling cymbal and sounding brass. Sisters and brothers when someone gets up who is anointed you feel the Heavens shifting and God comes so low to meet that need. Anointing is empowerment to deal with DEMONIC stuff. If Jesus needed the anointing of the Holy Spirit, we need it. That's why when Jesus came He said, "The Spirit of the Lord upon Me - He has anointed Me." That ANOINTING open the Heavens, healed the sick, open blind eyes, raised the dead, made people whole by meeting every need, multiplied bread, filled boats with fish and so much more! It was His anointing that open the Heavens.
Matthew 9:35-38 King James Version (KJV)
35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
Have you receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues?
To be "born of the Spirit" is that which took place at your conversion, as the Holy Spirit brought you to Christ and performed the work of regeneration within your heart and life. To be "Baptized with the Spirit" is in order that you may have Power with God (Acts 1:8). Every Believer should ask the Lord to fill them with the Holy Spirit, and expect to receive (Luke 11:13).
To be "born of the Spirit" is that which took place at your conversion, as the Holy Spirit brought you to Christ and performed the work of regeneration within your heart and life. To be "Baptized with the Spirit" is in order that you may have Power with God (Acts 1:8). Every Believer should ask the Lord to fill them with the Holy Spirit, and expect to receive (Luke 11:13).
S
Scribe
Guest
Heb 1:9 speaking of Jesus..You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.
S
Scribe
Guest
Heb 1:9 speaking of Jesus..You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.
Holiness is a requirement to the anointing. Those who hold on to pet lusts will try to "sound anointed" and yell and prance about on stage and attempt to replace the anointing with emotional hype. I have heard it often through the years. David Wilkerson was one I respected who had that awesome weightiness when he began to speak. He preached holiness and total separation from the world and sinful lusts and lived it as well. There have been preachers who had that message and then something changed, they went from being anointed to putting on an emotional show and you could tell that something was amiss, then they were exposed publicly and it all made sense. You can tell the difference if you yourself are walking in holiness and seeking the face of God.
This is why Paul said, "We preach Christ Crucified (1 Cor. 1:23)." He also said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified." 1 Corinthians 2:2 / The self righteous think it is the Jimmy Swaggart gospel.
Holiness and Sanctification are actually the same thing. Our holiness is obtained by faith and trust in Christ and what He did at the Cross. Without such Faith, there is no holiness, and there is no Salvation.
The gospel remains to be the only avenue through which Righteousness is revealed and experienced (Romans 1:16-17), and without the experience of Righteousness there is no Holiness, and without Holiness, no one can see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).
When the Believer is proclaiming Christ while forsaking the Cross, this is a form of godliness because they are rejecting the power which is the Cross of Christ (1 Cor. 1:18). Because of the flesh, the Cross of Christ is an offence to most Believers after salvation. Therefore, grace stops and sin begins to much more abound.