Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Because in Calvinism, God's grace is only given to people who have faith.
In Freegrace, God's grace is given to people who stop having faith.


God's grace is high, and wide, and deep but is confined to those who have faith.
But Freegrace says God's grace is boundless and not confined to any limitation of faith and even follows us back into unbelief if we so choose to go there.
So there is a definite distinction being made here between two graces of God. There isn't just one God's grace in this discussion.

This would be incorrect.
Faith is the instrument of salvation, once a person is saved they are saved.

Someday maybe you will.acceot that salvation is an eternal position not a day by day temporal thing.

Some people cannot seem to come to grips with the truth that it takes one belief at one moment in time to be saved eternally.

 

[jackrosie]

Sigh 😔

Rejoicing here with the truth...

 

[Judges1318]

Umm, but I would not associate with Calvnism and antinomianism.

That's right.
Calvinism and antinomianism (lawlessness) are light years apart.
Only in Freegrace can antinomianism be found in the believer's life and them still be considered saved.
In Calvinism, antinomianism is the sign of the unsaved.

 

[jackrosie]

You shall know them by their Fruits.

Mathew 7:15-20

Beware false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing,but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
You will know them by their fruits.
Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?
Even so,every good tree cannot bear bad fruit,nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

 

[EleventhHour]

It's true, the point is not if one OSAS camp is saved over and above the other.
You are right that it's about the stark contrast in doctrine between Calvinist OSAS and Freegrace OSAS.

For those following along, @eternally-gratefull has a more Calvinist leaning OSAS doctrine, while 11th hour and decontroversal are Freegrace OSASer's.

There is only one truth, doctrine that salvation is secure.

It is based on God's work.. and He remains faithful to His promises.

 

[jackrosie]

That's good.
Just keep these scriptures in mind:

"...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:21

"So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" - 1 Corinthians 10:12


Living in sin means purposely living in sin as an accepted way of life. This is the mark of the unsaved person. Though I believe a saved person can be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin and find himself willfully living once again in the life God saved him from. And unless they repent they will be lost, not saved, when Jesus returns. They have in effect gone back to unbelief. Ultimately, willful sinning is the sign of the unbeliever, while the struggle with sin is the sign of the believer.

According to the parable of the sower, how deeply rooted the word is in a person's heart determines the potential for them falling back in unbelief to their old lifestyle of willful sin. And how deeply rooted the word is depends on the condition of the person's heart.

That's good.
Just keep these scriptures in mind:

"...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." - Romans 11:21

"So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" - 1 Corinthians 10:12


Living in sin means purposely living in sin as an accepted way of life. This is the mark of the unsaved person. Though I believe a saved person can be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin and find himself willfully living once again in the life God saved him from. And unless they repent they will be lost, not saved, when Jesus returns. They have in effect gone back to unbelief. Ultimately, willful sinning is the sign of the unbeliever, while the struggle with sin is the sign of the believer.

According to the parable of the sower, how deeply rooted the word is in a person's heart determines the potential for them falling back in unbelief to their old lifestyle of willful sin. And how deeply rooted the word is depends on the condition of the person's heart.

I am trying to understand that bro...for me if God places his Love in the heart of a believer...there can never be doubt in that believers heart...because God placed/ manifested it there.they have eternal life...


I certainly agree about being arrogant.
But find your post informative...thanks for answering,x

 

[fredoheaven]

That's right.
Calvinism and antinomianism (lawlessness) are light years apart.
Only in Freegrace can antinomianism be found in the believer's life and them still be considered saved.
In Calvinism, antinomianism is the sign of the unsaved.

My copy and paste of free grace theology.

Core beliefs common to Free Grace theology historically include:

Belief Explanation Faith alone God declares a person righteous by faith in Christ (imputed righteousness) regardless of works accompanying faith either before or after. John 3:14–17 compares believing in Jesus to the Israelites looking upon the bronze serpent in the wilderness for healing from deadly venom (Numbers 21).[47]

Free choice Justifying faith is not an irresistible gift of God but a human response to God's love. Humanity retains a free will capable of both belief or unbelief when God lovingly woos and invites. Sanctifying faith also involves choice. People choose whether or not to obey, and the resulting consequences (sanctification and reward, defilement and punishment) are due to their choices. The principle that “we reap what we sow” applies to all humanity, because all humans have a God-given gift of making choices.[48]

Relationship differs from intimacy A permanent relationship with God as Father and the believer as a child begins by faith alone. When someone believes, there is a “new birth” and this spiritual birth cannot be undone. However, the familial relationship does not guarantee fellowship; intimacy with God requires obedience.[49]

Justification differs from sanctification Justification before God is a free unconditional gift by faith alone but sanctification requires obedience to God. Sanctification of all Christians is not guaranteed. Only final glorification of all Christians to a sinless state is guaranteed (Romans 8:30; Philippians 2:12).[50][51]

Eternal security Once a person has believed in Jesus Christ as God and Savior that person spends eternity with God regardless of subsequent behavior.

God's eternal acceptance is unconditionally given. Belonging to God's family is a permanent and irrevocable gift (Romans 11:29).[52][53]

Assurance of salvation Confidence of spending eternity with God is possible for every Christian since God justifies through faith alone and provides eternal security.[54][23]

Rewards and discipline All Christians will undergo judgment by Christ based upon their works and degree of conformity to Christ's character (or lack thereof). This is called the judgment seat or Bema Seat of Christ, where Christians are rewarded based on obedience to God through faith.[55]

This judgment does not concern heaven or hell but rewards (payment for service) or temporary punishment. God's familial acceptance of his children is unconditionally given. However, God's payments of eternal honor, riches, and positions of authority are only given for children who obediently served God. Good parents discipline their children and will not approve behavior that is detrimental. Neither will God approve sinful behavior that leads to destructive consequences (Hebrews 12:5–11)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_grace_theology

 

[jackrosie]

My copy and paste of free grace theology.

Core beliefs common to Free Grace theology historically include:

Belief Explanation Faith alone God declares a person righteous by faith in Christ (imputed righteousness) regardless of works accompanying faith either before or after. John 3:14–17 compares believing in Jesus to the Israelites looking upon the bronze serpent in the wilderness for healing from deadly venom (Numbers 21).[47]

Free choice Justifying faith is not an irresistible gift of God but a human response to God's love. Humanity retains a free will capable of both belief or unbelief when God lovingly woos and invites. Sanctifying faith also involves choice. People choose whether or not to obey, and the resulting consequences (sanctification and reward, defilement and punishment) are due to their choices. The principle that “we reap what we sow” applies to all humanity, because all humans have a God-given gift of making choices.[48]

Relationship differs from intimacy A permanent relationship with God as Father and the believer as a child begins by faith alone. When someone believes, there is a “new birth” and this spiritual birth cannot be undone. However, the familial relationship does not guarantee fellowship; intimacy with God requires obedience.[49]

Justification differs from sanctification Justification before God is a free unconditional gift by faith alone but sanctification requires obedience to God. Sanctification of all Christians is not guaranteed. Only final glorification of all Christians to a sinless state is guaranteed (Romans 8:30; Philippians 2:12).[50][51]

Eternal security Once a person has believed in Jesus Christ as God and Savior that person spends eternity with God regardless of subsequent behavior.

God's eternal acceptance is unconditionally given. Belonging to God's family is a permanent and irrevocable gift (Romans 11:29).[52][53]

Assurance of salvation Confidence of spending eternity with God is possible for every Christian since God justifies through faith alone and provides eternal security.[54][23]

Rewards and discipline All Christians will undergo judgment by Christ based upon their works and degree of conformity to Christ's character (or lack thereof). This is called the judgment seat or Bema Seat of Christ, where Christians are rewarded based on obedience to God through faith.[55]

This judgment does not concern heaven or hell but rewards (payment for service) or temporary punishment. God's familial acceptance of his children is unconditionally given. However, God's payments of eternal honor, riches, and positions of authority are only given for children who obediently served God. Good parents discipline their children and will not approve behavior that is detrimental. Neither will God approve sinful behavior that leads to destructive consequences (Hebrews 12:5–11)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_grace_theology

Find this interesting..

Regardless of subsequent behaviour.you posted..........I am saying ....if they think they can behave as they wish.....then I would question that.salvation.

 

[Duskey]

Rejoicing here with the truth...

Unfortunately you sway too often. I pray you become rooted in the Truth.

 

[star]

Because in Calvinism, God's grace is only given to people who have faith.
In Freegrace, God's grace is given to people who stop having faith.


God's grace is high, and wide, and deep but is confined to those who have faith.
But Freegrace says God's grace is boundless and not confined to any limitation of faith and even follows us back into unbelief if we so choose to go there.
So there is a definite distinction being made here between two graces of God. There isn't just one God's grace in this discussion.

There is only one Grace which is given by God Almighty Creator. It is sacrilegious IMO to divide (by man's thoughts) His grace into "camps." There is no distinction to what God gives out. Any distinctions spoken of is not what God has done.

The only grace is what He has been so mercifully given out.

 

[jackrosie]

Unfortunately you sway too often. I pray you become rooted in the Truth.

I am rooted to the truth in that area.

Sway or not..God allows it and it got me to his truth in that area..never to sway again.

Walking in faith and trust....you don’t get the truth without walking in faith also trust.

 

[EleventhHour]

You shall know them by their Fruits.

Mathew 7:15-20

Beware false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing,but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
You will know them by their fruits.
Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?
Even so,every good tree cannot bear bad fruit,nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

And how do you know Jesus is referring to fruits of the Spirit?

If very clearly is about false teachers, their doctrine and their followers.

 

[jackrosie]

And how do you know Jesus is referring to fruits of the Spirit?

If very clearly is about false teachers, their doctrine and their followers.

And how do you know he isn’t?

I can’t relate to your belief..so really pointless in trying to get me to....I find your posts confusing.make no sense..only the scripture....but even then I don’t interpret it the way you do.

Surely you know what the fruits of the Spirit are?..it tells you in scripture?

 

[fredoheaven]

Find this interesting..

Regardless of subsequent behaviour.you posted..........I am saying ....if they think they can behave as they wish.....then I would question that.salvation.

Interesting, but have you considered the Corinth believers? What is you're take when despite of their wrong behavior still Paul called them saints? 1 Cor. 1;2, enlighten me please...

 

[fredoheaven]

Rosie, are you going to judge them they are not saved? Thnx

 

[EleventhHour]

And how do you know he isn’t?

I can’t relate to your belief..so really pointless in trying to get me to....I find your posts confusing.make no sense..only the scripture....but even then I don’t interpret it the way you do.

Surely you know what the fruits of the Spirit are?..it tells you in scripture?

Instead of attacking me personally how about you use scripture to support that fruits of the spirit is in view in that passage.

Certainly false teachers are great pretenders at being kind and loving....they pretend to be like sheep.

 

[jackrosie]

Instead of attacking me personally how about you use scripture to support that fruits of the spirit is in view in that passage.

Certainly false teachers are great pretenders at being kind and loving....they pretend to be like sheep.

I already have posted the scripture if you don’t understand what it means..then you need to figure it out yourself.

As for attacking you..don’t even go there....I remember when I joined this site you attacked me fiercely....

 

[fredoheaven]

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Who are these 'them' - v.15 provides the answer.

 

[jackrosie]

Rosie, are you going to judge them they are not saved? Thnx

I am saying you will know them by their fruits and their fruits are?

 

[star]

1 John 4:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

This is a must if one is trying to decide who is speaking truth and who is not.

Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Be careful, test the what is good, true