Not By Works

[preacher4truth]

You posted these...







You said God elects those He knows will be willing. He uses His foreknowledge that way. So, by implication and logic, He did not elect those He knew would not be willing. You can’t say He elected those He knew would be willing, and then turn around and say He elected the whole human race. Any way you slice it, election has God justly leaving ppl in their already condemned state.

Yep, and that entire philosophy which is not biblical turns grace into merit. God chose me BECAUSE of the act he saw me do. BECAUSE I did that, he chose me. That means by your act you merited being chosen.

That is not grace as grace is unmerited favor.

Nope. 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. John 1:13 dogmatically denies human will as having any determining factor in our salvation.

 

[fredoheaven]

Wonderful! He was a Calvinist, too, and that buttresses our stance. The lost are gifted faith and they exercise it and are saved. That’s what we’ve said all along. That’s for the support! I truly appreciate it.

Umm, the point I am trying to show is that when one sinner upon the conviction of the Holy Spirit exercise faith or respond via faith through hearing the gospel is not considered a merit as exactly what Paul is saying in Eph 2:8. So whosoever beleiveth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. john 3;16

 

[jackrosie]

God chooses who he elects..we don’t choose him....to me that is such an honour to be chosen by God.

When I was saved....I felt honoured and more important than the Queen....seriously I did.

 

[mailmandan]

You said God elects those He knows will be willing. He uses His foreknowledge that way. So, by implication and logic, He did not elect those He knew would not be willing. You can’t say He elected those He knew would be willing, and then turn around and say He elected the whole human race. Any way you slice it, election has God justly leaving ppl in their already condemned state.

Again, I will never understand your logic. You have your understanding of election and I have mine. Moving on...

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

Ok how does the light bulb turn on . Was it something in the man that led this to happen .
Was the preacher just that good?
it couldn’t be God right ?

"Deep calleth unto deep"

 

[preacher4truth]

Hold on a minute. You’ve said repeatedly God, via His foreknowledge, knew who would be willing, and He elected them based upon that foreknowledge.

I remember when I was first saved I believed that, then realized I came up with that on my own and not from scripture.

 

[mailmandan]

Yep, and that entire philosophy which is not biblical turns grace into merit. God chose me BECAUSE of the act he saw me do. BECAUSE I did that, he chose me. That means by your act you merited being chosen.

That is not grace as grace is unmerited favor.

This explains why I don't understand the logic of election as taught in Calvinism. Salvation by grace through faith, not works is not turning grace into merit. Salvation by works would be merit -- ..and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. There is no merit in receiving a free gift through faith. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:1-2) It's a choice. No merit for man and Christ gets all the merit for salvation. We either accept the free gift of eternal life or reject it.

 

[EleventhHour]

Umm, the point I am trying to show is that when one sinner upon the conviction of the Holy Spirit exercise faith or respond via faith through hearing the gospel is not considered a merit as exactly what Paul is saying in Eph 2:8. So whosoever beleiveth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. john 3;16

Exactly, it is not considered a merit because the belief is in Jesus not oneself.
Choice is not a work.

 

[preacher4truth]

This explains why I don't understand the logic of election as taught in Calvinism. Salvation by grace through faith, not works is not turning grace into merit. Salvation by works would be merit -- ..and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. There is no merit in receiving a free gift through faith. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:1-2) It's a choice. No merit for man and Christ gets all the merit for salvation.

No, sorry my man, salvation isn't a choice, all men are not owed an opportunity, we are not saved via human will and decision, and so called Calvinism isn't logic, it's biblical.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Adam had not sinned before the fall. Neither had he eaten from the Tree of Life.

Nor was he created immortal. God alone dwells in immortality.

Amen

Adam walked with Gid because he was all be. The Moment he sinned he died and at that moment was under grace Because he believed God

 

[mailmandan]

Exactly, it is not considered a merit because the belief is in Jesus not oneself.
Choice is not a work.

Believing is certainly not a work that merits salvation. Through believing, we are trusting in Another's work (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The saved need God’s Grace every day. That was poorly worded by me about salvation. I was agreeing he was perfect pre-fall.

Thank you
and I agree. We need Gods Grace everyday.

 

[EleventhHour]

This explains why I don't understand the logic of election as taught in Calvinism. Salvation by grace through faith, not works is not turning grace into merit. Salvation by works would be merit -- ..and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. There is no merit in receiving a free gift through faith. We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:1-2) It's a choice. No merit for man and Christ gets all the merit for salvation. We either accept the free gift of eternal life or reject it.

Amen ... there is no merit in receiving................ that is what we do receive

And Grace is not compulsive.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That’s all ppl do in their unregenerate state my friend. But God...[Eph. 2:4a]

Yes but I did not ask that. I am sorry you misunderstood me..

my question was after a person was regenerated. Before they had faith, Have they ever said no?

 

[Magenta]

Exactly, it is not considered a merit because the belief is in Jesus not oneself.
Choice is not a work.

Choice, as I said before, is a sticking point. Some say they did nothing, i.e., played no role whatsoever in their salvation, and that would include making a choice, while at the same time saying nobody is forced. But it can't be both. It is either/or. One either makes a choice, or they have no choice in the matter.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I‘m referring to those who died never hearing the gospel. Natural revelation tells thems God exists as Creator, but not Savior. It doesn’t tell them what Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. It doesn’t them about the gospel and Christ dying and raising from the tomb three days later.

So the HS failed to
Convict them if sin righteousness and judgment?

They may have not heard it
From another man. But if they did not hear at all. Technically they have an excuse.

 

[jackrosie]

This explains why I don't understand the logic of election as taught in Calvinism. Salvation by grace through faith, not works is not turning grace into merit. Salvation by works would be merit -- ..and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. There is no merit in receiving a free gift through faith. We have

No, sorry my man, salvation isn't a choice, all men are not owed an opportunity, we are not saved via human will and decision, and so called Calvinism isn't logic, it's biblical.

I never made a choice...Why did he choose me?

He has shown me his will for my life..which is coming to pass...it’s been amazing watching it unfold.

Little me saved by Almighty God......how Awesome is that.....

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

Yep, and that entire philosophy which is not biblical turns grace into merit. God chose me BECAUSE of the act he saw me do. BECAUSE I did that, he chose me. That means by your act you merited being chosen.

That is not grace as grace is unmerited favor.

Nope. 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. John 1:13 dogmatically denies human will as having any determining factor in our salvation.

Good News for Gentiles
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.…

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope. Let's not go back. Let's handle this and not skip out.

You say no one has put demands on God. You challenged me as if I made this up, and made pretense that you know no one has ever done that here. Again none of us are the spokesmen for others on this site. I've not placed myself in that stead.

Now, again, you said no one puts demands like I listed on God. Do you want the proof, or not?

nope we are not playing that game

I stand by what I said and you keep making excuses as to why you
Can not understand my question. Thus I am finished with that because it is useless

You made an accusation against me awhile ago. Please
Answer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

After reading another’s response, maybe perfect isn’t correct. He was created sinless, but he wasn’t in a state of where he could not have sinned. So, maybe perfect is not an apt description?

This makes sense. Maybe a better term would be he was made alive

Where once he sinned he died and had to be born again (Saved) because it was then he required grace

I agree I think that he was able to sin it’s part of free will that God gives man the way i see it