Not By Works

[jackrosie]

He prevails when people understand. I’m sorry you don’t understand. Perhaps you could ask Him to help you understand. “If any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God..”

(I’ll drop this exchange now. Not ignoring, just moving on, you see.)

There you go again “assuming “......you stick with what you believe....and I will do the same....none of what you teach makes any sense to me whatsoever.
I pray you come to an understanding of what salvation means as well.
So swiftly moving on.

 

[jackrosie]

In fact the ONLY place I could even find it was the NIV bible and they use it, as a MADE UP ADJECTIVE, which is not in the GREEK, talking about a Great Mighty Army sweeping over everything like a flood.

Daniel 11:10 (NIV)
10 His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.


The NIV clearly made that word up. I suspect that she is talking about the "Charismatic Experience", which some assume it is the Holy Spirit. If that is what she wants to believe, I guess she can do that if she wants to, as long as it is in a Charismatic or Pentecostal Church. Personally in my opinion, it is all counterfeit, but that is just my opinion, and it is not my understanding.[/QUOTE]


You say the NIV made that word up in Daniel 11:10.
Irresistible.
How would you know that?
Does the NIV have a lot of made up words?
Is the NIV not to be trusted?

Can other members answer this question as well please..thank you.

 

[EleventhHour]

As I have said before...receiving the Holy Spirit for some happens naturally/automatically.

The wind blows where ever it pleases.
You hear it’s sound,but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit...Scripture.John 3:8

And this is not connected to the concept of irresistable grace.

 

[Magenta]

1 Timothy 2:1-4

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

If all the doctors in the hospital cared for him alone letting 20 others die, those 20 others have a clear case of injustice against them. If the doctors shrug their shoulders and say no one deserved to be revived, it doesn’t make it just.

You see, if God selected you, He could have as easily selected all with no effort at all. In your theology He just didn’t. Bad luck for them, I guess, is your view, right?

“For grace to be grace it must be free.” Dr. James White. God could have saved everyone and He is just. He could have left the whole human race in their fallen state and still be just. Him saving those He elected still makes Him just. God is just, period. This fallen notion of fairness is an insult, and affront to His character.

 

[EleventhHour]

Amen. But that doesn’t mean by saving some and not all makes Him unjust. You’re conflating His justice...giving ppl exactly what they deserve...with fairness.



Not so. Him giving ppl what they deserve is just. Him saving those who He wasn‘t obligated to save to begin with, is grace.



In our system, none deserve salvation. That why it’s called grace.



He leaves no one out. All fell in Adam. All deserved eternal damnation. Yet, He, in His grace and mercy, is saving a number of God-hating ppl that no man can number, and that’s not fair. You’re demanding Him to call everyone or He isn’t meeting your demands.



Again, making demands of God I see. Completely inept in our system? We are the ones who say God saves everyone He intends to save. Your system has God trying to save everyone, but He can’t overcome their pesky free will. I pray God blesses up you, but you and I are done. Good bye.

Thank you so much this thread is not about the tenets of Calvinism anyway... a topic of very limited interest to me actually since I was never fond of Augustine when I read his book a few years back.

That such strange ideas of a Catholic priest still have such traction is baffling to me.

 

[EleventhHour]

You are quite right. The word Irresistible, is never used in the BIBLE.

In fact the ONLY place I could even find it was the NIV bible and they use it, as a MADE UP ADJECTIVE, which is not in the GREEK, talking about a Great Mighty Army sweeping over everything like a flood.

Daniel 11:10 (NIV)
10 His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.


The NIV clearly made that word up. I suspect that she is talking about the "Charismatic Experience", which some assume it is the Holy Spirit. If that is what she wants to believe, I guess she can do that if she wants to, as long as it is in a Charismatic or Pentecostal Church. Personally in my opinion, it is all counterfeit, but that is just my opinion, and it is not my understanding.

The faulty concept of irrestible grace originated with St. Augustine of the....Latin/Catholic Church.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

There you go again “assuming “......you stick with what you believe....and I will do the same....none of what you teach makes any sense to me whatsoever.
I pray you come to an understanding of what salvation means as well.
So swiftly moving on.

She said God prevails when ppl understand? Srsly? Let’s see what the Bible says...What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”[Romans 3:9-12] I’m quoting from the NASB and OT verses quoted in NT verses are in caps. The Bible says there aren’t any who understands. This is also found in Psalm 14.

 

[jackrosie]

And this is not connected to the concept of irresistable grace.

That is your understanding of it.....mine is the opposite.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

In fact the ONLY place I could even find it was the NIV bible and they use it, as a MADE UP ADJECTIVE, which is not in the GREEK, talking about a Great Mighty Army sweeping over everything like a flood.

Daniel 11:10 (NIV)
10 His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.


The NIV clearly made that word up. I suspect that she is talking about the "Charismatic Experience", which some assume it is the Holy Spirit. If that is what she wants to believe, I guess she can do that if she wants to, as long as it is in a Charismatic or Pentecostal Church. Personally in my opinion, it is all counterfeit, but that is just my opinion, and it is not my understanding.

You say the NIV made that word up in Daniel 11:10.
Irresistible.
How would you know that?
Does the NIV have a lot of made up words?
Is the NIV not to be trusted?

Can other members answer this question as well please..thank you.

Go to www.biblegateway.com and look up other versions and see how they word Daniel 11:10. The way others worded ‘irresistible’ is quite consistent with the others. It’s referring to the forces being successful in what they sought out to do.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

In fact the ONLY place I could even find it was the NIV bible and they use it, as a MADE UP ADJECTIVE, which is not in the GREEK, talking about a Great Mighty Army sweeping over everything like a flood.

Daniel 11:10 (NIV)
10 His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.


The NIV clearly made that word up. I suspect that she is talking about the "Charismatic Experience", which some assume it is the Holy Spirit. If that is what she wants to believe, I guess she can do that if she wants to, as long as it is in a Charismatic or Pentecostal Church. Personally in my opinion, it is all counterfeit, but that is just my opinion, and it is not my understanding.

You say the NIV made that word up in Daniel 11:10.
Irresistible.
How would you know that?
Does the NIV have a lot of made up words?
Is the NIV not to be trusted?

Can other members answer this question as well please..thank you.

The NIV is a very good translation, imo. I’m not as down on the gender inclusion language as others(though not every place where “Brothers/Brethern” is used does it mean Brothers and Sisters), but the NIV is a very solid translation, imo. I read from it quite a bit, but prefer the NASB.

 

[VCO]

The faulty concept of irrestible grace originated with St. Augustine of the....Latin/Catholic Church.

Yes, and that church is into are into the "Charismatic Experience" too.

 

[Magenta]

Go to www.biblegateway.com and look up other versions and see how they word Daniel 11:10. The way others worded ‘irresistible’ is quite consistent with the others. It’s referring to the forces being successful in what they sought out to do.

There is also the excellent resource of biblehub (<- link)

 

[VCO]

The NIV is a very good translation, imo. I’m not as down on the gender inclusion language as others(though not every place where “Brothers/Brethern” is used does it mean Brothers and Sisters), but the NIV is a very solid translation, imo. I read from it quite a bit, but prefer the NASB.

It is an okay translation, IMO
, but in places they had to make up words not in the GREEK to get the point across in their ultra simplified ENGLISH. But I also studied with an NIV for Years and almost wore out my Thompson Chain NIV. My current favorite is Holman's Christian Standard Bible.

 

[EleventhHour]

That is your understanding of it.....mine is the opposite.

... and there is only one truth supported by scripture.

 

[jackrosie]

... and there is only one truth supported by scripture.

Exactly..mine being the opposite to what you believe God is saying in that scripture.

I don’t believe “your” interpretation..as you don’t mine.

Read all of that scripture to Nicodemus..it may help you better understand...but then again it may not.

 

[dcontroversal]

... and there is only one truth supported by scripture.

Many are tossed about with every wind of doctrine when their foundation is shakey due to a lack of growth.....Calvinism is a cult indeed!

 

[jackrosie]

... and there is only one truth supported by scripture.

It’s the same with the fruits of the Spirit.....you don’t seem to believe the same way as I do.....

So our understanding is different...most of what you say I don’t understand....same for you of Me.

Bearing the fruit of the Spirit is very important to me...you shall know them by the fruit they bear.

 

[Magenta]

It is an okay translation, IMO
, but in places they had to make up words not in the GREEK to get the point across in their ultra simplified ENGLISH. But I also studied with an NIV for Years and almost wore out my Thompson Chain NIV. My current favorite is Holman's Christian Standard Bible.

I am strongly leaning to the Berean Study Bible these days

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Adam, and all creation, need God’s grace every second of their lives. Let God withdraw His grace and watch their whole world crumble. Just look at our nation. No doubt in my mind God’s hand of grace has been withdrawn from us. And look at the result. As far as salvation, yes he was perfect.

so you think Adam who was created in his perfect state BEFORE the fall needed grace? What was the purpose for his needing grace, and as a child of God already what did he need saved for?