Not By Works

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Answer: Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

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who were dead in trespasses and sins; not only dead in Adam, in whom they sinned, being their federal head and representative; and in a legal sense, the sentence of condemnation and death having passed upon them; but in a moral sense, through original sin, and their own actual transgressions: which death lies in a separation from God, Father, Son, and Spirit, such are without God, and are alienated from the life of God, and they are without Christ, who is the author and giver of life, and they are sensual, not having the Spirit, who is the spirit of life; and in a deformation of the image of God, such are dead as to their understandings, wills, and affections, with respect to spiritual things, and as to their capacity to do any thing that is spiritually good; and in a loss of original righteousness; and in a privation of the sense of sin and misery; and in a servitude to sin, Satan, and the world: hence it appears, that man must be in himself unacceptable to God, infectious and hurtful to his fellow creatures, and incapable of helping himself: so it was usual with the Jews to call a wicked and ignorant man, a dead man; they say - John Gill

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We who were dead are quickened (Eph_2:5), we are saved from the death of sin and have a principle of spiritual life implanted in us. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. As death locks up the senses, seals up all the powers and faculties, so does a state of sin, as to any thing that is good. Grace unlocks and opens all, and enlarges the soul. Observe, A regenerate sinner becomes a living soul: he lives a life of sanctification, being born of God; - Matthew Henry

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Even when we were dead] This is again repeated, because hardly believed. We are apt to conceit better of ourselves than there is cause for, and can hardly be persuaded that we are dead in sins and trespasses, and lie rotting and stinking in the graves of corruption, much worse than Lazarus did after he had lain four days in his sepulchre. We would be sorry but our penny should be as good silver as another’s, and are ready, with the Pharisee, to set up our counter for a thousand pound. In fine, a dead woman we say must have four to carry her forth. A man shall have much ado to persuade the merry Greeks of this world, but that they have the only life of it, and that others are dead in comparison of them. Hence this iteration of the blow upon the natural man, to knock him down dead, as it were, to bring him to Paul’s pass, Rom_7:9. - John Trapp

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Even when we were dead in our sins. Repeated from Eph_2:1, in order to set in its true light the declaration that follows of what God did for us to make more emphatic the free and sovereign mercy of God. Though sin is the abominable thing which he hates, loathsome to him in the last degree, he did not turn from us when we were immersed in it; nor did he wait till we began to move towards him: he began to influence us even when we were dead. Made us alive together with Christ (συνεζωοποίησε τῷ Χριστῷ). Made us alive with the life which is in Christ and which flows from Christ. - The Complete Pulpit Commentary

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Again, you ask how? The answer is summed up in all the above in two words; "But God..." Ephesians 2:4.

I hadn’t seen this when I posted my previous response to him. So much for great minds thinking alike, right?

 

[preacher4truth]

Why are some saved? But God...[Eph. 2:4a]

Amen! "But GOD!!!"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry again, but no one here is the spokesman for all on here and can claim "no on <sic>" has said this or that.

You're again incorrect, some do put these demands on God.

You're asking for proof, right, proof any person has put the demands on God I listed? Is this what you are asking me to prove?

I don't believe you possess the knowledge that no one on here has done what I've stated.

Sorry. But you claimed people put demands on God
So using your response here. You must have no right Toni say oeople
Do

You also made the comment in support of your belief system most likely accusing people here of doing this (why else would you say it

So Can you please Prove your point By showing which people here put demands in god?

Otherwise. You really have no point.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So, God elected those He knew would be willing. Then that means He never elected those He knew wouldn’t be willing. So even in your schema, you have God leaving ppl in their fallen condition.

@mailmandan

Would you please address this post? Thanks in advance.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So God can reach the ones He has selected where ever they may be........ but cannot reach the ones He has not selected?

Yes, He reaches the elect through the gospel. 1 Cor. 1:21 says God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. He doesn’t use mystical means and saves ppl outside the gospel. Faith comes from hearing the word, not by being zapped in a remote area with no idea what the gospel is.

Ephesians 1:13 also involves hearing the gospel and believing the message. Not being zapped by God with never hearing the gospel.

Romans 10:14-17 clearly shows the necessity of the gospel in bringing the elect to salvation. He doesn’t zap ppl who never heard the gospel.

God uses means to save the elect. The gospel is the means.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I think it's possible to say the many called and few chosen, aren't necessarily about Salvation, but a specific purpose for the few chosen.

There are those that are going to attain a "better resurrection". I'm not sure this is the same as the narrow path Jesus talks about.

There is the general call and the effectual call. The general call is given to all who hear the message. The effectual call is God working through the gospel’s proclamation, bringing His elect to salvation. That’s why “many called, but few chosen” supports our stance.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Context of my comment to you was no
One here, I can see you possibly misunderstandings my so will give you a Another chance,

So tell me who here in Christian chat is putting a demand in God can you name any? I can”t but am Willing to give you an audience so you can show us

And is. Still waiting for you to tell me how Adam needed grace and salvation Pre fall. When he was still perfect. Can you please Answer?

Adam, and all creation, need God’s grace every second of their lives. Let God withdraw His grace and watch their whole world crumble. Just look at our nation. No doubt in my mind God’s hand of grace has been withdrawn from us. And look at the result. As far as salvation, yes he was perfect.

It is impersonal because we are given no understanding/information upon which God makes the decision.

Deuteronomy 7:7-8

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Why are ALL MEN without excuse? WHY are all men accountable?

Because what they saw via natural revelation they attributed it to some sort of idol. Romans 1:18ff

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, He reaches the elect through the gospel. 1 Cor. 1:21 says God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. He doesn’t use mystical means and saves ppl outside the gospel. Faith comes from hearing the word, not by being zapped in a remote area with no idea what the gospel is.

Ephesians 1:13 also involves hearing the gospel and believing the message. Not being zapped by God with never hearing the gospel.

Romans 10:14-17 clearly shows the necessity of the gospel in bringing the elect to salvation. He doesn’t zap ppl who never heard the gospel.

God uses means to save the elect. The gospel is the means.

I never stated any of the above with regards to being zapped.

And really does not respond to my observation which was actually raised. .. If he can reach the selected where ever they may be, then he can reach others where ever they maybe be.

 

[EleventhHour]

Deuteronomy 7:7-8

Sorry that is pertaining to the Israelites... it is impersonal still with regards to selection under the New Covenant.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Irresistible grace.

That doesn’t mean He forces them to believe. He just works grace into their heart that just have to have Him as Lord and Savior.

 

[EleventhHour]

That doesn’t mean He forces them to believe. He just works grace into their heart that just have to have Him as Lord and Savior.

Sorry it is either one or the other.
Either people can and do resist the prompting of the Holy Spirit or they cannot.

Even Piper states eventually God overcomes their resistance.

And you still have the dilemma of why God pursues some and not others.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Sorry it is either one or the other.
Either people can and do resist the prompting of the Holy Spirit or they cannot.

Even Piper states eventually God overcomes their resistance.

And you still have the dilemma of why God pursues some and not others.

The only dilemma is yours. You’re calling God unfair if He doesn’t pursue everyone. You’re putting a demand on God that He must pursue everyone or He‘s not being fair. God didn’t have to pursue anyone, yet He chose to save a number that no man can number, that should be cast into hell, and you take umbrage with that.

 

[preacher4truth]

Sorry. But you claimed people put demands on God
So using your response here. You must have no right Toni say oeople
Do

I don't have a right to do this? Isn't this what you are saying? Could you make comprehensible sentences please, unlike the above? They are hard to decipher.

It appears you are saying I have no right to make claims yet it also appears you've granted yourself the right make claims.

You also made the comment in support of your belief system most likely accusing people here of doing this (why else would you say it

So Can you please Prove your point By showing which people here put demands in god?

Otherwise. You really have no point.

Oh, I have a point.

First things first. When I said you don't possess the knowledge to claim "no on <sic>" makes demands on God, nothing I stated meant the entire world, nation, universe or a certain country. You came back and said you meant on here.

I wasn't speaking of the entire world as I figured you meant on here.

Sorry, once again, but you don't possess such knowledge on this site or anywhere else. None of us are the spokesmen for this entire community and shouldn't appoint nor appear to have appointed ourselves to such a stead. Right?

Lastly there is proof some demand God owes an opportunity to all or he cannot be God and cannot send them to hell unless he does, and if he doesn't he's not a God of love.

 

[preacher4truth]

Context of my comment to you was no
One here, I can see you possibly misunderstandings my so will give you a Another chance,

The above is difficult to decipher.

This sentence makes no sense "I can see you possibly misunderstandings my so will give you a Another chance,"

You're "giving" me another chance? Hmmmm. That sounds rather odd.

 

[preacher4truth]

The only dilemma is yours. You’re calling God unfair if He doesn’t pursue everyone. You’re putting a demand on God that He must pursue everyone or He‘s not being fair. God didn’t have to pursue anyone, yet He chose to save a number that no man can number, that should be cast into hell, and you take umbrage with that.

That is exactly the picture of the Romans 9:19-20 person Paul was speaking of.

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

I don't have a right to do this? Isn't this what you are saying? Could you make comprehensible sentences please, unlike the above? They are hard to decipher.

It appears you are saying I have no right to make claims yet it also appears you've granted yourself the right make claims.



Oh, I have a point.

First things first. When I said you don't possess the knowledge to claim "no on <sic>" makes demands on God, nothing I stated meant the entire world, nation, universe or a certain country. You came back and said you meant on here.

I wasn't speaking of the entire world as I figured you meant on here.

Sorry, once again, but you don't possess such knowledge on this site or anywhere else. None of us are the spokesmen for this entire community and shouldn't appoint nor appear to have appointed ourselves to such a stead. Right?

Lastly there is proof some demand God owes an opportunity to all or he cannot be God and cannot send them to hell unless he does, and if he doesn't he's not a God of love.

God is not the author of confusion... so, while there remains doubt over our beliefs and reasonings - they may not be of God. so ... back to the drawing board??

 

[EleventhHour]

The only dilemma is yours. You’re calling God unfair if He doesn’t pursue everyone. You’re putting a demand on God that He must pursue everyone or He‘s not being fair. God didn’t have to pursue anyone, yet He chose to save a number that no man can number, that should be cast into hell, and you take umbrage with that.

Nope ... I do not impugn the character of God....and give Him a character of love and hate in equal doses

God is just ... it is your system that makes Him unjust... only some are deserving of salvation in your system....why because He purposely leaves others out.

It is the Calvinist scheme that makes God morally ambigous, or completely inept.....selecting a few when He could select all.

 

[jackrosie]

Nowhere does scripture state that grace is "irresistible" which has been demonstrated on this thread several times.

We judge all things by the word of God, not by experience alone.

As I have said before...receiving the Holy Spirit for some happens naturally/automatically.

The wind blows where ever it pleases.
You hear it’s sound,but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit...Scripture.John 3:8

 

[Magenta]

As I have said before...receiving the Holy Spirit for some happens naturally/automatically.

The wind blows where ever it pleases.
You hear it’s sound,but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit...Scripture.John 3:8

Or supernaturally