Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

The Holy Spirit was irresistible for me ...he did not force himself onto me.....

If you have not experienced it...then you would not be able to relate...which clearly you haven’t.

Nowhere does scripture state that grace is "irresistible" which has been demonstrated on this thread several times.

We judge all things by the word of God, not by experience alone.

 

[EleventhHour]

And what about those who died never hearing the gospel?

So God can reach the ones He has selected where ever they may be........ but cannot reach the ones He has not selected?

 

[EleventhHour]

no on puts any demand on God, god did that himself when he claimed to be a god of love

Amen!!!

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

You BLESSED ME with a CRYING song for the FAITHFULNESS JESUS CHRIST, for the 2nd time today. What a blessing to CRY 2 Twice in one day, Worshiping Jesus Christ. Kim Walker-Smith, you can tell she is BORN AGAIN, and was SINGING TO THE LORD, as she sang.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING IT. I was expecting to go home to the LORD, before that song ended.

now you got mw watching it too. that is a nice song.

 

[preacher4truth]

"Lost man always rejects the things of the Spirit" then why are some saved if lost man always rejects...I consider all men are lost, how is that he can be saved? Thanks

Answer: Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

#
​

who were dead in trespasses and sins; not only dead in Adam, in whom they sinned, being their federal head and representative; and in a legal sense, the sentence of condemnation and death having passed upon them; but in a moral sense, through original sin, and their own actual transgressions: which death lies in a separation from God, Father, Son, and Spirit, such are without God, and are alienated from the life of God, and they are without Christ, who is the author and giver of life, and they are sensual, not having the Spirit, who is the spirit of life; and in a deformation of the image of God, such are dead as to their understandings, wills, and affections, with respect to spiritual things, and as to their capacity to do any thing that is spiritually good; and in a loss of original righteousness; and in a privation of the sense of sin and misery; and in a servitude to sin, Satan, and the world: hence it appears, that man must be in himself unacceptable to God, infectious and hurtful to his fellow creatures, and incapable of helping himself: so it was usual with the Jews to call a wicked and ignorant man, a dead man; they say - John Gill

#​

We who were dead are quickened (Eph_2:5), we are saved from the death of sin and have a principle of spiritual life implanted in us. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. As death locks up the senses, seals up all the powers and faculties, so does a state of sin, as to any thing that is good. Grace unlocks and opens all, and enlarges the soul. Observe, A regenerate sinner becomes a living soul: he lives a life of sanctification, being born of God; - Matthew Henry

#​

Even when we were dead] This is again repeated, because hardly believed. We are apt to conceit better of ourselves than there is cause for, and can hardly be persuaded that we are dead in sins and trespasses, and lie rotting and stinking in the graves of corruption, much worse than Lazarus did after he had lain four days in his sepulchre. We would be sorry but our penny should be as good silver as another’s, and are ready, with the Pharisee, to set up our counter for a thousand pound. In fine, a dead woman we say must have four to carry her forth. A man shall have much ado to persuade the merry Greeks of this world, but that they have the only life of it, and that others are dead in comparison of them. Hence this iteration of the blow upon the natural man, to knock him down dead, as it were, to bring him to Paul’s pass, Rom_7:9. - John Trapp

#
​

Even when we were dead in our sins. Repeated from Eph_2:1, in order to set in its true light the declaration that follows of what God did for us to make more emphatic the free and sovereign mercy of God. Though sin is the abominable thing which he hates, loathsome to him in the last degree, he did not turn from us when we were immersed in it; nor did he wait till we began to move towards him: he began to influence us even when we were dead. Made us alive together with Christ (συνεζωοποίησε τῷ Χριστῷ). Made us alive with the life which is in Christ and which flows from Christ. - The Complete Pulpit Commentary

#​

Again, you ask how? The answer is summed up in all the above in two words; "But God..." Ephesians 2:4.

 

[preacher4truth]

For those interested in the truth of the matter, Irresistible Grace does not teach grace cannot be resisted.

There is no need to assume something has been defeated when one does not know what it actually teaches. Those poor straw men getting beat up all the time!

"And when I say it’s irresistible grace, I certainly do not mean you can’t resist it. Irresistible grace is often laughed out of court by pointing to obvious texts in the Bible that say we do resist the Holy Spirit, and they’re all over the place, right? For example, Acts 7:51 says, “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.” And then here’s this kook John Piper who talks about irresistible grace. And some might say, “Well, that’s ridiculous. Of course, it’s not irresistible because the Bible says it can be resisted. So stop talking about irresistible grace.”

Well, no, I’m not going to stop talking about it because all it means is whenever God pleases, he overcomes your resistance."

more: https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/the-free-will-of-the-wind/excerpts/is-grace-really-irresistible

 

[Laish]

The Holy Spirit was irresistible for me ...he did not force himself onto me.....

If you have not experienced it...then you would not be able to relate...which clearly you haven’t.

Yes it’s a humbling experience to come to the realization that a Holy God exists When you weren’t even looking or concerned with the things of God . From the perspective of a atheist ( former atheist now ) it is something that scares then immediately fills one with gratitude Knowing He is merciful .
Blessings
Bill

 

[PennEd]

I never disagreed that many do surrender.....but there is only one way anyone is accepted, by grace through faith and the calling of GOD IS IRREVOCABLE.....so....if the bible says....Many are called, but few chosen....I can conclude correctly that the ones not found in the "few" rejected the call and indeed did resist grace!

I think it's possible to say the many called and few chosen, aren't necessarily about Salvation, but a specific purpose for the few chosen.

There are those that are going to attain a "better resurrection". I'm not sure this is the same as the narrow path Jesus talks about.

 

[preacher4truth]

no on puts any demand on God, god did that himself when he claimed to be a god of love

You're incorrect. None of us are the spokesmen for everyone else, thus your "no on <sic> puts any demand on God" is unfounded. Though you've made this claim you do not possess such knowledge.

People do in fact put demands on God. Romans 9:19-20 shows this to be true. This person is calling God unfair for finding fault with sinners to whom He wills to show no mercy. To this person it is not fair for God to do such a thing. Yet it is fair, He is God, we are not, and He is still a God of love even though He does not show mercy on all, but only on those who me He wills to show it.

Some others put demands on God, such as if he doesn't give every single person a chance or opportunity for salvation then he isn't a God of love. That is demanding God do what man uses as a criteria of measure God must meet in order for God to be God. But God does not do this though some demand Him to do so.

 

[preacher4truth]

I think it's possible to say the many called and few chosen, aren't necessarily about Salvation, but a specific purpose for the few chosen.

There are those that are going to attain a "better resurrection". I'm not sure this is the same as the narrow path Jesus talks about.

I've never thought of the above, yet with all due respect your hypothesis does not match the narrative of Matthew 22:1-14. Obviously salvation is the subject of this parable.

 

[VCO]

I never disagreed that many do surrender.....but there is only one way anyone is accepted, by grace through faith and the calling of GOD IS IRREVOCABLE.....so....if the bible says....Many are called, but few chosen....I can conclude correctly that the ones not found in the "few" rejected the call and indeed did resist grace!

Some people Never understand that GOD KNOWS every decision we will make in our entire life, before He wrote our names in the BOOK OF LIFE, before the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. The word disciple, ONLY means follower, and does not mean SAVED. These are the ones who will fall away. Thus, NONE of them were ever of us, 1 John 2:19. So why does HE call followers, who are NEVER going to be Born Again, that HE knows they will not endure till the END ? ? ?

I would say, HE wants to REMOVE their EXCUSE, so they will KNOW they deserve eternity in Hell, for Rejecting HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER. MANY want a Savior, but FEW want a LORD to rule their Lives. Rom. 10:9-10, tells us that HE does not become our SAVIOR until the Holy Spirit empowers us to Receive HIM as LORD, and in that instant we are Genuinely Born Again, and then we are SAVED!

Yeas ago I noticed, most TV Preachers only tell the Viewers to "JUST ACCEPT JESUS AS SAVIOR, AND YOU ARE SAVED." I think that is a
HUGE MISTAKE, but they get more scalps to count that way. They have to receive HIM as LORD first, then HE becomes your SAVIOR.
Are they not just ushering them through the Wide Gate?

When we are Born Again, the HOLY SPIRIT SEALED us, so that we are the ones that WILL endure till the End.
That thought just came to me, to broaden my understanding of what SEALED also means.

Matthew 24:11-13 (YLT)
11 `And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray;
12 and because of the abounding of the lawlessness, the love of the many shall become cold;
13 but he who did endure to the end, he shall be saved;

And when were we SAVED ? ? ? Before Time Began when HE Foreknew every decision we would ever make.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think it's possible to say the many called and few chosen, aren't necessarily about Salvation, but a specific purpose for the few chosen.

There are those that are going to attain a "better resurrection". I'm not sure this is the same as the narrow path Jesus talks about.

It might be possible I guess. But not sure why we would see it any
Other way

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're incorrect. None of us are the spokesmen for everyone else, thus your "no on <sic> puts any demand on God" is unfounded. Though you've made this claim you do not possess such knowledge.

People do in fact put demands on God. Romans 9:19-20 shows this to be true. This person is calling God unfair for finding fault with sinners to whom He wills to show no mercy. To this person it is not fair for God to do such a thing. Yet it is fair, He is God, we are not, and He is still a God of love even though He does not show mercy on all, but only on those who me He wills to show it.

Some others put demands on God, such as if he doesn't give every single person a chance or opportunity for salvation then he isn't a God of love. That is demanding God do what man uses as a criteria of measure God must meet in order for God to be God. But God does not do this though some demand Him to do so.

Context of my comment to you was no
One here, I can see you possibly misunderstandings my so will give you a Another chance,

So tell me who here in Christian chat is putting a demand in God can you name any? I can”t but am Willing to give you an audience so you can show us

And is. Still waiting for you to tell me how Adam needed grace and salvation Pre fall. When he was still perfect. Can you please Answer?

 

[preacher4truth]

Context of my comment to you was no
One here, I can see you possibly misunderstandings my so will give you a Another chance,

So tell me who here in Christian chat is putting a demand in God can you name any? I can”t but am Willing to give you an audience so you can show us

And is. Still waiting for you to tell me how Adam needed grace and salvation Pre fall. When he was still perfect. Can you please Answer?

Sorry again, but no one here is the spokesman for all on here and can claim "no on <sic>" has said this or that.

You're again incorrect, some do put these demands on God.

You're asking for proof, right, proof any person has put the demands on God I listed? Is this what you are asking me to prove?

I don't believe you possess the knowledge that no one on here has done what I've stated.

 

[PennEd]

I've never thought of the above, yet with all due respect your hypothesis does not match the narrative of Matthew 22:1-14. Obviously salvation is the subject of this parable.

I hear you. I think it's a little more tricky than that. Here are some questions to think about:
In Romans 8:29-30 Paul says that all who are chosen (i.e., predestined) will also be called (and later justified). But in Matthew 22:14, Jesus says not all who are called are chosen. Is this a contradiction? Are all the called also chosen or not?

 

[preacher4truth]

I hear you. I think it's a little more tricky than that. Here are some questions to think about:
In Romans 8:29-30 Paul says that all who are chosen (i.e., predestined) will also be called (and later justified). But in Matthew 22:14, Jesus says not all who are called are chosen. Is this a contradiction? Are all the called also chosen or not?

Good stuff bro.

No, not all who are called are chosen thus "many are called, few are chosen."

All are called who are within hearing when the Gospel is preached, only some are elect, thus "many" are called.

Romans 8:29-30 is dealing with the elect and their effectual call, not the general call intertwined with the effectual call in Matthew 22 so it is not dealing with them since the audience in Romans is strictly believers.

Note also the parable of the dragnet, Matthew 23:47-50 as it also teaches the same principle as Matthew 22:1-14.

 

[tourist]

I hear you. I think it's a little more tricky than that. Here are some questions to think about:
In Romans 8:29-30 Paul says that all who are chosen (i.e., predestined) will also be called (and later justified). But in Matthew 22:14, Jesus says not all who are called are chosen. Is this a contradiction? Are all the called also chosen or not?

Good stuff bro.

I agree. Very good stuff. I don't believe it is a contradiction but don't have an answer unless I research it with other scripture. I am reasonably certain that you can probably provide a sensible answer based on scripture. Fascinating question @PennEd asked though.

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree. Very good stuff. I don't believe it is a contradiction but don't have an answer unless I research it with other scripture. I am reasonably certain that you can probably provide a sensible answer based on scripture. Fascinating question @PennEd asked though.

I gave the scripture, you edited it out of my response.

 

[EleventhHour]

For those interested in the truth of the matter, Irresistible Grace does not teach grace cannot be resisted.

There is no need to assume something has been defeated when one does not know what it actually teaches. Those poor straw men getting beat up all the time!

"And when I say it’s irresistible grace, I certainly do not mean you can’t resist it. Irresistible grace is often laughed out of court by pointing to obvious texts in the Bible that say we do resist the Holy Spirit, and they’re all over the place, right? For example, Acts 7:51 says, “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.” And then here’s this kook John Piper who talks about irresistible grace. And some might say, “Well, that’s ridiculous. Of course, it’s not irresistible because the Bible says it can be resisted. So stop talking about irresistible grace.”

Well, no, I’m not going to stop talking about it because all it means is whenever God pleases, he overcomes your resistance."

more: https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/the-free-will-of-the-wind/excerpts/is-grace-really-irresistible

Piper very clearly states....

Well, no, I’m not going to stop talking about it because all it means is whenever God pleases, he overcomes your resistance. He can let you resist him as long as he wants, but when he decides, he triumphs.

Clearly, this is supporting the notion of irresistible grace.

So there in no strawman.

John Calvin stated his erroneous teachings clearly ... at least I could respect he did not pretend to to teach otherwise.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

"Lost man always rejects the things of the Spirit" then why are some saved if lost man always rejects...I consider all men are lost, how is that he can be saved? Thanks

Why are some saved? But God...[Eph. 2:4a]