Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Pretty sure this thread is trying to "work" it's way to Heaven.

It actually is NOT....

however UNTIL it is scrubbed completely from the internet it has been a mighty defense of the Gospel of Christ Jesus which is

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

And that salvation is SECURE! it cannot be left behind nor taken away because He is faithful!

 

[Chester]

It actually is NOT....

however UNTIL it is scrubbed completely from the internet it has been a mighty defense of the Gospel of Christ Jesus which is

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

And that salvation is SECURE! it cannot be left behind nor taken away because He is faithful!

Salvation and eternal life are never taken from the one who is believing in Jesus Christ! Yes and amen!

 

[EleventhHour]

Salvation and eternal life are never taken from the one who is believing in Jesus Christ! Yes and amen!

Salvation is secure because of Christ Jesus... and is secure from the moment we are born from above in Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation and eternal life are never taken from the one who is believing in Jesus Christ! Yes and amen!

So it’s up to us not God?

 

[Chester]

So it’s up to us not God?

Ephesians 2:8-10 is clear that all of this is because of God's grace - it is the starting place from which our faith springs. Our faith is not something we contrive on our own strength, but is a gift of God.

 

[Oncefallen]

That's right disagree!
Because tossing someone under the bus and not having the answer yourself looks INTELLIGENT!

Not!

Well, except for DCpnstipated they are not that bad.

Two down, how many more are going to fail to heed my warning?

Clearly sarcastic insults and personal attacks are not going to be tolerated any more.

As much as it pains me I am reading every post in this thread and will remove whoever fires the first shot.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Can you explain the doctrine of irresistible grace?

When I received the Holy Spirit....I could not resist his purity.Love....it wasn’t dirty as a member on here told me.

It was pure and natural...a receiving of the Holy Spirit into my heart.....unbelievable!

Irresistible grace doesn't teach no one resists the Holy Spirit, but that those who are saved don’t resist it all the way until death. Remember, John Calvin didn’t come up with the TULIP. It’s been around since around 1900 or so. I don’t think anyone knows for sure who came up with TULIP. Irresistible grace is not a perfect name for it, but you can’t spell TULIP TULEP. I’d guess that’s why they used Irresistible Grace for that acrostic.

Another name for it is effectual calling. Notice how effectual the Spirit’s drawing was when you received Him. That’s what we teach. When He draws ppl, they come. They aren’t forced to be saved, neither does He drag them kicking and screaming against their will. The Greek word used is ‘helko’(pronounced hel-koo-o) and it means to literally drag off, lead, impel, draw with an inward power.

It is also found in John 18:10 when Peter drew(helko) his sword. Did the sword say no when Peter drew it, or did Peter effectually draw it from its scabbard?

It is also found in John 21:11 when Peter drew the net to shore. Did the net say no when Peter drew it, or did Peter effectually draw it to the shore?

It is also found in Acts 16:19 when they dragged(KJV uses drew) Paul and Silas to the market place. Did they say no or did the mob of ppl effectually draw them to the market place?

It is also found in Acts 21:30 when the ppl dragged(KJV uses drew) Paul out of the temple and shut the doors behind him. Did Paul say no when the ppl drew him out of the temple, or did the ppl effectually draw him out of the temple?


Again, this doesn’t mean God drags us to Him kicking and screaming against our wills, but teaches us when He draws them, He effectually draws them to Himself.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g1670

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 2:8-10 is clear that all of this is because of God's grace - it is the starting place from which our faith springs. Our faith is not something we contrive on our own strength, but is a gift of God.

If continuing to believe is required it’s on us not God

 

[EleventhHour]

When He draws ppl, they come. They aren’t forced to be saved, neither does He drag them kicking and screaming against their will.

Is it possible for God's calling to ineffectual?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Is it possible for God's calling to ineffectual?

Not per Romans 11:29.

 

[EleventhHour]

Not per Romans 11:29.

So then it must be admitted that the human resistance must be overridden by God in order for His call to always be effectual?

 

[Chester]

If continuing to believe is required it’s on us not God

For my continued believing, the power source and origin is God - just like it was when I came to Christ.

But each to his own opinion . . .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For my continued believing, the power source and origin is God - just like it was when I came to Christ.

So if the power source is god how could it ever fail and you stop believing

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then it must be admitted that the human resistance must be overridden by God in order for His call to always be effectual?

Romans 11 is about Gods call and promise to Israel, not individual believers., so it does not fit

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So then it must be admitted that the human resistance must be overridden by God in order for His call to always be effectual?

If you read Romans 8:5-9, Paul meticulously shows the unregenerate and regenerate ppl. Those who are unregenerate are hostile(KJV uses at enmity, which means to have an ill-will towards) God. They hate Him in their fallen and unregenerate state. They have hearts of stone that cannot love Him. That is why He must first give them a new heart and spirit whereby they can love Him. He has to do a spiritual CPR on them, seeing they are dead in transgressions and sin. He has to divinely quicken them, in this divine quickening He imparts faith and repentance, they exercise them and are saved. All this happens simultaneously.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you read Romans 8:5-9, Paul meticulously shows the unregenerate and regenerate ppl. Those who are unregenerate are hostile(KJV uses at enmity, which means to have an ill-will towards) God. They hate Him in their fallen and unregenerate state. They have hearts of stone that cannot love Him. That is why He must first give them a new heart and spirit whereby they can love Him. He has to do a spiritual CPR on them, seeing they are dead in transgressions and sin. He has to divinely quicken them, in this divine quickening He imparts faith and repentance, they exercise them and are saved. All this happens simultaneously.

This means he makes a person who is dead because of sin alive BEFORE sin is taken care of. how is this so, and where is an example of this anywhere in any judicial system instituted by God?

 

[EleventhHour]

Romans 11 is about Gods call and promise to Israel, not individual believers., so it does not fit

Agree.. I know they use that chapter to support the dogma of foreordained predestination of individuals.

 

[PennEd]

Ok how does the light bulb 💡 turn on . Was it something in the man that led this to happen .
Was the preacher just that good?
it couldn’t be God right ?

These are the questions that make it so I can never get to the place that I chose God, without HIM gifting me the faith to believe. I kinda think it’s where Rosemary and a few others are.

I am not a Calvinist, and have actually never read a single word John Calvin wrote. I’m only going by what I believe Scripture clearly says, without a human understanding of “ but that’s not fair” .

I also do not believe limited atonement is in the Bible. So Calvinists aren’t too keen on me either. Must be doing something right if I have something that offends everyone! Lol

I truly believe the main division is about the sovereignty of man vs the sovereignty of God. Or free will vs predestination. We will not get an absolute answer to this on this side of eternity. It’s THE Gospel unto Salvation that is vital, not this issue.

But ima take a stab at it anyway!
I KNOW I wouldn’t have chosen Christ. I was living a completely sinful life, and always sought new and better ways to further that sinful lifestyle.

My brother got saved in the navy, came home and gave me the True Gospel. I’d like to say I lived happily ever after, but yeah, no.
I continued in my lifestyle for a good while. Then, a couple yrs later, and several requests from him, I found myself at his Church! Lol. I DID the Church thing already. 8 yrs Catholic grammar school and Church. No waaaay I’m doing that stuff again!

Yet there I was. Somehow in his Church! Immediately I could feel something different here. There was no phoniness, people were genuinely Worshiping the Lord, and what I now know, was the Holy Spirit Present! I believe it was there that I became a true believer and Child of God.

So several places, including Jesus Himself, say we are dead. We’re not sick, we’re not weak. We are DEAD!

A dead man can do nothing but be dead. So I know it was ALL the Lord ! I’m not going to speak about anybody else. I just know it was all Him.

 

[EleventhHour]

This means he makes a person who is dead because of sin alive BEFORE sin is taken care of. how is this so, and where is an example of this anywhere in any judicial system instituted by God?

In this dogma God regenerates before they come to salvation.. if God does not regenerate them they have total inability to respond to the Gospel.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Wow,

I thought the OSAS/NOSAS debate was a mine field; this free grace/forced grace (Correct terminology?) thing is pretty touchy for some I see.

What I see in scripture is that God offers the free gift of eternal life through repentance and belief. All men have a free will to either receive it, reject it, or come short of it.