What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

[Blik]

Jesus was effectively saying that one has to completely forget himself from before getting to know God and be born again as God's servant. That means, no more living outside of religion. Life must be completely God based. It is basically true acceptance of God's reality and true adulthood.

I think you have explained it best.

It is the difference between using logic and intelligence to accept our existence and giving over our understanding to be led by God. It is not logical that sin entered the world and sin kills. It is not logical that through Christ we can live. Those who insist on their own reasoning they were born with and will not accept God's truth are dead, those who accept God can live.

One of the scrolls found in the dead sea caves speaks of the last days when man becomes so very intelligent and has do many answers but the results are disastrous. It seems so true it makes you wonder about the findings in those caves.

 

[rhern]

The physical birth -- common to all mankind -- was automatically discounted by Christ in His response to Nicodemus.

Christ was revealing the absolute necessity of the New Birth, which is (1) supernatural, (2) spiritual, (3) unseen with the human eye, (4) necessary to enter into the Kingdom of God, and (5) enables one to see the invisible Kingdom of God (as presently constituted).

It is when we come to John 3:5 that a huge number of misunderstandings and misinterpretations arise. "Born of the Spirit" means born of God, born from above, and born again. This is the totally supernatural effect of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved (John 1:12,13). But what does "born of water" mean?

If people would go back to the Old Testament and see what it says about the New Birth (and Nicodemus should have know this but either forget it or ignored it) they would realize that the New Birth is not produced through water baptism. It is the "water" of the Word of God, as well as the "water" of the Holy Spirit that Christ was talking about (since water is used as a metaphor in this connection).

EZEKIEL 36: THE FUTURE REDEMPTION AND RESTORATION OF ISRAEL
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land [Israel].
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

While this is addressed to Israel, it is also a part of the New Covenant, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (30 AD) and which will again happen after the Second Coming of Christ.

But when Jesus referred to this while addressing Nicodemus, He also made it a reality for the Church Age. The Church was born on the day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Jews were given the GIFT of the Holy Spirit and saved by grace. And ever since every sinner who was saved received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And it is only after a sinner receives the gift of the Spirit that He is "born of the Spirit". But the "water" is the Word of God -- indeed the Gospel -- and Peter made this clear in his first epistle (1 Pet 1:23-25), but called the Gospel the "incorruptible seed" which produces the New Birth.

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.

If the Christian Church was started on the day of Pentecost then how can you explain these passages:

Acts 21:
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Acts 3:
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus;
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 11:19
Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

---Paul was chosen by Jesus to be a vessel and given revelation which were unknown to the Jews.

Acts 9:
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,


Ephesians 2
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[Nehemiah6]

If the Christian Church was started on the day of Pentecost then how can you explain these passages:

All those passages easily fit into the FACT that the Church started on the day of Pentecost as noted in Acts 2:47. As we know from Romans 9-11, believing Israel (saved Jews) are presented as "the good olive tree" of the Church, whereas saved Gentiles are presented as the branches grafted from "the wild olive tree" into the good olive tree. So the Church was primarily Jewish to begin with.

Acts 21:

Jewish believers were first added to the Church (Acts 2). And they did not automatically stop being Torah observant as soon as they were saved. There would be several years until all Gospel truth was being taught within the churches.

Acts 3; 11:19

Jesus had already commanded the apostles to start preaching the Gospel in Jerusalem, the Judea, then Samaria, then to the uttermost parts of the earth. In Acts 3 the Gospel is being preached to the Jews.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Yes. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was the apostle to the Jews. But in all his missionary journeys, Paul always went first to the Jewish synagogues throughout the Roman empire. The Gospel was "to the Jews FIRST, then to the Gentile". But we also know that because the bulk of Israel rejected Christ, the Church began to become predominantly Gentile. All the other passages you have quoted simply fit into this. What Paul meant in Romans 16:25 was the the mystery of the Church as being composed of BOTH Jews and Gentiles was revealed to him, and through him to all Christians. That is a part of Gospel Truth.

 

[WithinReason]

John 3

King James Version


3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

I think it goes something like what this person shares:

 

[rhern]

All those passages easily fit into the FACT that the Church started on the day of Pentecost as noted in Acts 2:47. As we know from Romans 9-11, believing Israel (saved Jews) are presented as "the good olive tree" of the Church, whereas saved Gentiles are presented as the branches grafted from "the wild olive tree" into the good olive tree. So the Church was primarily Jewish to begin with.

Jewish believers were first added to the Church (Acts 2). And they did not automatically stop being Torah observant as soon as they were saved. There would be several years until all Gospel truth was being taught within the churches.

Jesus had already commanded the apostles to start preaching the Gospel in Jerusalem, the Judea, then Samaria, then to the uttermost parts of the earth. In Acts 3 the Gospel is being preached to the Jews.

Yes. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was the apostle to the Jews. But in all his missionary journeys, Paul always went first to the Jewish synagogues throughout the Roman empire. The Gospel was "to the Jews FIRST, then to the Gentile". But we also know that because the bulk of Israel rejected Christ, the Church began to become predominantly Gentile. All the other passages you have quoted simply fit into this. What Paul meant in Romans 16:25 was the the mystery of the Church as being composed of BOTH Jews and Gentiles was revealed to him, and through him to all Christians. That is a part of Gospel Truth.

Jews are blind until the fullness of the Gentiles is complete

Luke 21:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Romans 11:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

2 Peter 3:15-16 King James Version (KJV)
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Scribe]

The physical birth -- common to all mankind -- was automatically discounted by Christ in His response to Nicodemus.

Christ was revealing the absolute necessity of the New Birth, which is (1) supernatural, (2) spiritual, (3) unseen with the human eye, (4) necessary to enter into the Kingdom of God, and (5) enables one to see the invisible Kingdom of God (as presently constituted).

It is when we come to John 3:5 that a huge number of misunderstandings and misinterpretations arise. "Born of the Spirit" means born of God, born from above, and born again. This is the totally supernatural effect of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved (John 1:12,13). But what does "born of water" mean?

If people would go back to the Old Testament and see what it says about the New Birth (and Nicodemus should have know this but either forget it or ignored it) they would realize that the New Birth is not produced through water baptism. It is the "water" of the Word of God, as well as the "water" of the Holy Spirit that Christ was talking about (since water is used as a metaphor in this connection).

EZEKIEL 36: THE FUTURE REDEMPTION AND RESTORATION OF ISRAEL
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land [Israel].
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

While this is addressed to Israel, it is also a part of the New Covenant, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (30 AD) and which will again happen after the Second Coming of Christ.

But when Jesus referred to this while addressing Nicodemus, He also made it a reality for the Church Age. The Church was born on the day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Jews were given the GIFT of the Holy Spirit and saved by grace. And ever since every sinner who was saved received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And it is only after a sinner receives the gift of the Spirit that He is "born of the Spirit". But the "water" is the Word of God -- indeed the Gospel -- and Peter made this clear in his first epistle (1 Pet 1:23-25), but called the Gospel the "incorruptible seed" which produces the New Birth.

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.

Yes and that is why he told Nicodemus that as a teacher of the scripture he should have known about Ezek 36, or Jer

 

[Kolistus]

One of the scrolls found in the dead sea caves speaks of the last days when man becomes so very intelligent and has do many answers but the results are disastrous. It seems so true it makes you wonder about the findings in those caves.

Could you tell me which scroll and where can I find out more about this topic? Extremely interested!

 

[Wansvic]

But when Jesus referred to this while addressing Nicodemus, He also made it a reality for the Church Age. The Church was born on the day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Jews were given the GIFT of the Holy Spirit and saved by grace. And ever since every sinner who was saved received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Why do you believe the baptism of the 3,000 Jews was the Holy Spirit? It would seem water baptism is more plausible since Peter had just instructed those present to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and stated that if they repented and did this they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why do you believe the baptism of the 3,000 Jews was the Holy Spirit?

Acts 2:38 makes it very clear. However, after they received the Holy Spirit, they were baptized as believers.

 

[rhern]

Acts 2:38 makes it very clear. However, after they received the Holy Spirit, they were baptized as believers.

Acts 1:
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;



The Jews believed in signs and wonders as in the days of Moses The Red Sea was opened

These are signs and wonders:

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

 

[Gregoryp]

it is living with Jesus wise counsel, its making the effort to reject the traditions, values and morals of the world and become true to yourself and God. Always live the truth, and it will set you free. So that means a rejection of prosperity theology amongst many other things I wont go into here. The world is temporary, the truth is permanent, embrace it or perish along with the rest of the world

 

[rhern]

Acts 2:38 makes it very clear. However, after they received the Holy Spirit, they were baptized as believers.

1 Corinthians 1

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;



The Jews believed in signs and wonders as in the days of Moses The Red Sea was opened

These are signs and wonders:

Acts 2:

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

 

[crossnote]

John 3
What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(2Co 5:17)

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
(Eph 2:2-5)

 

[cuz]

Waters are what you live by
Think of it this way
you can go without food for a long time
but you can only go about 3 days without water
John 4
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Jesus talks about this water
The water on the earth gives life for about 3 days
but if we drink the water Jesus gave life never ends

The waters he gave is Love other as he has loved you

John 15
9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

things to think on

Matthew 20:22

But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Luke 22:20

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

 

[Wansvic]

Acts 2:38 makes it very clear. However, after they received the Holy Spirit, they were baptized as believers.

Peter addressed people who had not yet received the Holy Ghost. Peter instructed those present to repent and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and they would receive the Holy Ghost. The recorded event goes on to say, "Then they that gladly received his (Peter's) word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:41) The only thing that each person could readily comply with was to be water baptized in Jesus' name since God is the giver of the Holy Ghost. And since the record states that 3,000 souls were added, the group would have received the Holy Ghost as well. Further one can also conclude from this event, as well as other scriptures (Acts 2:1, 38, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6, 22:16) that the sequence of compliance to Peter's message can differ from one individual to the next. More evidence to support this truth is Jesus' statement in Luke 24:47 that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name beginning in Jerusalem. His comment would indicate that the 120 in the upper room would have complied with Peter's instructions being water baptized in Jesus' name after being indwelt with the Holy Ghost.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

uh, er, so............what do YOU think He was saying?

I think he was saying those that are fleshly are not born of God and those that are spiritual are people born again in God.

 

[tantalon]

Conversion is of a SPIRITUAL change. Before conversion our spirit was dead to God in trespasses and sins. The "washing by the word" is the gospel message received by the unbeliever, Ephesians 5:6 and Titus 3:5. The born again experience completed, is the forgiveness of ones sins by God, the impartation of a new nature, and a spiritual baptism into the body of Christ. Water baptism by a pastor, is a public showing among witnesses, of what that spiritual event was, with a public confession of said faith. Romans 10: 9,10. This is the START line for believers, not the finish line, as we start out as babes in Christ, and through obedience to the word, mature until death. Anyone who thinks they have reached full maturity now, do not realized that the standard is Christ, not each other.