Catholicism vs Protestantism
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You're the one who is going beyond God's Word, not me. One time you refute sola scriptura, then you contradict yourself. I'm not going to tell you the exact wording that I want scripture to say. The Bible -- God's word -- says what it says.
There are those of us who believe God's Word is complete and sufficient and there are others who don't believe that. Which camp are you in?
There are those of us who believe God's Word is complete and sufficient and there are others who don't believe that. Which camp are you in?
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The word debunks your understanding. The epistles of the apostles make up a large portion of the bible. In the Apostolic Era the epistles were distributed and read to those in the NT churches.
2 Peter 3:15-16
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 1:12-15
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
2 Peter 3:15-16
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 1:12-15
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
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The 7 Churches is a prophesy of how the Church age will go in popular influence among the people, and if any flaws God always has people that are in the truth.
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
The Church was popular in abiding in the truth, but they left their first love which seems like they were not loving people like they should which Jesus told them to repent or He would remove their candlestick, and that is because love is the fulfilling of the law, and love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
It is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their occult, pagan ways, and it became their foundation for interpreting scriptures, and the occult, and paganism are of the devil.
Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
It appears as if it is still the Roman Catholic Church but advanced in deception as time goes on, for like a Christian in the truth will advance in the truth, a person that is going by the occult, and paganism of a false interpretation will advance in that.
Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
It still seems like the Roman Catholic Church, and they covered many years of operating and being a popular influence upon people.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Then the Protestant movement that started to become popular, but they did not become popular in the truth, but they were closer to it, but lacked, but they were not identified with a Satanic influence like the prior 3 Churches.
Jesus said that their works were not found perfect before God, and for them to repent or He would come upon them like a thief.
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Then the 6th Church the popular belief was one that Jesus did not have anything bad to say about them, but told them to hold unto what they have for much deception is going on especially with the new age movement.
Jesus said He would deliver the saints from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
And there can only be one temptation that can come upon all the world at the same time, and that is when the nations come together and say Peace and safety, which is soon to happen, and Paul said that the saints will not be deceived by that for they know it is not the operation of God, and not reality but they will be following the new age movement and their interpretation of the Bible, and all religions.
Which God said multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision, for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision, for they have a choice to stay with God for the hypocrites, get with God, or follow the world.
Jesus will deliver the saints in the truth from that temptation, and Paul said the saints will not be deceived by that.
The Pope will be the spiritual leader of the unified religious system, and the Vatican the headquarters, as they embrace the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, but was planned out to be that way.
Since the Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts down the world then the Roman Catholic Church will change because the Roman Empire has changed, and become bigger with America being the main influence for the setting up of the New Age Christ kingdom.
The world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, and they will mingle themselves with the seed of men, the ethnic groups, nations, but they shall not cleave to one another even as iron is not mixed with clay, which started in America and spread to the world.
America and their influence in their nation, and the world is why the nations came together, and America will change, and do whatever it takes to get the world to cooperate with each other, whether conflicts, or peace.
They will mingle themselves with the seed of men, but they will not cleave to one another, and that is because of the selfishness, arrogance, and self exaltation of people, but they will come together if they feel that there is problems that is affecting them, and their nation.
An example is 911 when patriotism shot up, and flags went up on the cars, for now they had a threat against them, so they came together, but as soon as the threat is over the flags come down, and the middle finger goes back up, and it is business as usual, which America is all about the business of trying to get all they can get.
Which Jesus said since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold.
And America is the nation that is responsible for the world following her, and without her influence the nations would of not come together, and the nations have drunk of the wrath of her fornication, and her sins have reached unto heaven, and God said come out of her my people.
So America has punishment coming.
Continued,
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
The Church was popular in abiding in the truth, but they left their first love which seems like they were not loving people like they should which Jesus told them to repent or He would remove their candlestick, and that is because love is the fulfilling of the law, and love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
It is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their occult, pagan ways, and it became their foundation for interpreting scriptures, and the occult, and paganism are of the devil.
Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
It appears as if it is still the Roman Catholic Church but advanced in deception as time goes on, for like a Christian in the truth will advance in the truth, a person that is going by the occult, and paganism of a false interpretation will advance in that.
Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
Rev 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
It still seems like the Roman Catholic Church, and they covered many years of operating and being a popular influence upon people.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Then the Protestant movement that started to become popular, but they did not become popular in the truth, but they were closer to it, but lacked, but they were not identified with a Satanic influence like the prior 3 Churches.
Jesus said that their works were not found perfect before God, and for them to repent or He would come upon them like a thief.
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Then the 6th Church the popular belief was one that Jesus did not have anything bad to say about them, but told them to hold unto what they have for much deception is going on especially with the new age movement.
Jesus said He would deliver the saints from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
And there can only be one temptation that can come upon all the world at the same time, and that is when the nations come together and say Peace and safety, which is soon to happen, and Paul said that the saints will not be deceived by that for they know it is not the operation of God, and not reality but they will be following the new age movement and their interpretation of the Bible, and all religions.
Which God said multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision, for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision, for they have a choice to stay with God for the hypocrites, get with God, or follow the world.
Jesus will deliver the saints in the truth from that temptation, and Paul said the saints will not be deceived by that.
The Pope will be the spiritual leader of the unified religious system, and the Vatican the headquarters, as they embrace the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, but was planned out to be that way.
Since the Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts down the world then the Roman Catholic Church will change because the Roman Empire has changed, and become bigger with America being the main influence for the setting up of the New Age Christ kingdom.
The world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, and they will mingle themselves with the seed of men, the ethnic groups, nations, but they shall not cleave to one another even as iron is not mixed with clay, which started in America and spread to the world.
America and their influence in their nation, and the world is why the nations came together, and America will change, and do whatever it takes to get the world to cooperate with each other, whether conflicts, or peace.
They will mingle themselves with the seed of men, but they will not cleave to one another, and that is because of the selfishness, arrogance, and self exaltation of people, but they will come together if they feel that there is problems that is affecting them, and their nation.
An example is 911 when patriotism shot up, and flags went up on the cars, for now they had a threat against them, so they came together, but as soon as the threat is over the flags come down, and the middle finger goes back up, and it is business as usual, which America is all about the business of trying to get all they can get.
Which Jesus said since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold.
And America is the nation that is responsible for the world following her, and without her influence the nations would of not come together, and the nations have drunk of the wrath of her fornication, and her sins have reached unto heaven, and God said come out of her my people.
So America has punishment coming.
Continued,
Continued,
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Then we get to the last Church age that is popular which many will be heaping money, and material things to themselves, and the prosperity Gospel, and preachers that are millionaires, which the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.
Which this happens more in America than anywhere else, and this can only happen at the time of technology that caused money and material things to flow like a raging river.
Which God said at the last generation the people will devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men, which can only happen because of technology, for people can branch out farther to make money, and can reach more people to make money.
The Roman Catholic Church, the Protestant movement, and the 7th Church age with their wanting to go by their wants will all be at this time.
So it appears as if the Protestant movement is in a better position than the Roman Catholic Church unless individuals change their ways, and get in the truth.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Then we get to the last Church age that is popular which many will be heaping money, and material things to themselves, and the prosperity Gospel, and preachers that are millionaires, which the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.
Which this happens more in America than anywhere else, and this can only happen at the time of technology that caused money and material things to flow like a raging river.
Which God said at the last generation the people will devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men, which can only happen because of technology, for people can branch out farther to make money, and can reach more people to make money.
The Roman Catholic Church, the Protestant movement, and the 7th Church age with their wanting to go by their wants will all be at this time.
So it appears as if the Protestant movement is in a better position than the Roman Catholic Church unless individuals change their ways, and get in the truth.
It is the "imo" that concerns me. It is not to be our "opinion" that we base anything upon. Thus the matter of "Final Authority" that I spake of. This truly is the difference.
They would more than likely say the 'Magisterium' (a nebulous terminology to be sure, but none-the-less).
Yes, most "Protestants" "say" alot, but do not actually follow through with what they "say".
Disagree. That alters the "Final Authority" and takes the position of the Catholic faith. Thus why I stated what I did in regards "Final Authority" being the central issue.
Basically "Catholic" these days.
The statement assumes something about "Orthodoxy", namely that it thinks it is the "church". It is not. This based in "Final Authority" again, as was stated from the first.
This is the defining difference on matters "Soteriology" and "Final Authority", and why I stated what I did. This is the difference between "Catholic" (big or small 'c') and "Protestant" theology.
They would more than likely say the 'Magisterium' (a nebulous terminology to be sure, but none-the-less).
Yes, most "Protestants" "say" alot, but do not actually follow through with what they "say".
Disagree. That alters the "Final Authority" and takes the position of the Catholic faith. Thus why I stated what I did in regards "Final Authority" being the central issue.
Basically "Catholic" these days.
The statement assumes something about "Orthodoxy", namely that it thinks it is the "church". It is not. This based in "Final Authority" again, as was stated from the first.
This is the defining difference on matters "Soteriology" and "Final Authority", and why I stated what I did. This is the difference between "Catholic" (big or small 'c') and "Protestant" theology.
This statement essentially proves the argument that the Catholic ideology of 'immaculate conception' is not a scriptural (Bible) teaching, but exists outside and separate from it.
I also disagree with your sentiment. Isaiah 8:20 to begin with, and Isaiah 28:10,13; John 10:35 (KJB) just for starters.
Most people mis-define "Sola Scriptura" anyway, and is why they have a wrong conception about it.
I also disagree with your sentiment. Isaiah 8:20 to begin with, and Isaiah 28:10,13; John 10:35 (KJB) just for starters.
Most people mis-define "Sola Scriptura" anyway, and is why they have a wrong conception about it.
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You misunderstood me, my brother, I believe Paul is in heaven, what I don't believe is paul able to hear us, Paul like Abraham that able to speak to rich man in hades, so do to us on earth.
Remember my question, if so why don't he come to my church to preach?
My brother, when Jesus say the kingdom of God is like a farmer, spread the seed.
You can't tale it literal, we read the message. This is an analogy my brother.
My brother, the rich man was from the hades, not from earth
How do we know it was real mary, in my country devil able to pretend to be our death uncle.
we speak about God here, are we prophet too?
Remember my question, if so why don't he come to my church to preach?
My brother, when Jesus say the kingdom of God is like a farmer, spread the seed.
You can't tale it literal, we read the message. This is an analogy my brother.
My brother, the rich man was from the hades, not from earth
How do we know it was real mary, in my country devil able to pretend to be our death uncle.
we speak about God here, are we prophet too?
B
Again remeber my response. We cannot tell God what he must do before we believe.
Before you claimed that the story of Abraham and the rich man was a parable.
A parable is not an analogy. It is a teaching story. Jesus was teaching.
The principle is no different.
Because the Church has carefully examined all the evidence and authenticated certain Marian appearances as valid and worthy of belief.
A prophet is not just someone who speaks about God, but someone who speaks a message from God, speaks for God.
Personally I think this particular topic has run it's course. Unless you particularly want to pusue it I will leave it there.
Before you claimed that the story of Abraham and the rich man was a parable.
A parable is not an analogy. It is a teaching story. Jesus was teaching.
The principle is no different.
Because the Church has carefully examined all the evidence and authenticated certain Marian appearances as valid and worthy of belief.
A prophet is not just someone who speaks about God, but someone who speaks a message from God, speaks for God.
Personally I think this particular topic has run it's course. Unless you particularly want to pusue it I will leave it there.
