The truth about tongues: a DIVISIVE force in Christianity today
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Well at the time I had no clue why I said it or where I even got the idea, but in this year this message has been a constant and he has been pouring this theme into my life more and more, my poems my visions my dreams even just talking with other believers who have felt the same thing.
Something is coming and he is trying to get the church to listen. He lead me to pay more attention to the feast days and today tabernacle in particular was something that I felt he wanted me to check out.
Something is coming and he is trying to get the church to listen. He lead me to pay more attention to the feast days and today tabernacle in particular was something that I felt he wanted me to check out.
J
so if i pray for my wifes ear infection when she actually has a tooth infection i didnt know about, the Father will ignore my prayer because i was not specific? not sure i agree on that one. anyway i am pretty sure Jesus covered this problem when He explained how the Father knows our heart when we ourselves may be confused and not to worry, in other words have faith in the Father and He will sort it out when you ask, no secret language required.
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Are you kidding me? I sincerely hope you do not actually think that. I mean I love the kjv but if this is the view of the kjv only believers then I would say maybe read a different version.
I mean this was insulting uncalled for and flat out rude.If you cannot debate in a calm christ like and mature manner then you sohuldn't be debating. I mean the absurdity of such a comment is simply astounding this isn't grade school and if your a believer in Christ the show it, if your not five years old resorting to such childish remarks then prove it.
I mean this was insulting uncalled for and flat out rude.If you cannot debate in a calm christ like and mature manner then you sohuldn't be debating. I mean the absurdity of such a comment is simply astounding this isn't grade school and if your a believer in Christ the show it, if your not five years old resorting to such childish remarks then prove it.
How many support pieces do you need?
3. I don't "support" any Bible. I use the NASB for daily reading, I also use the NIV (1975) and the KJV, along with a couple of interlinear versions, and I reference Young's Literal and a dozen others.
4. Because I understand that there are several approaches to translation, none of them perfect.
https://christianchat.com/threads/king-james-bible-only-or-not.153153/post-3111579
Now back to my previous statement. Do you really think God is going to show anything, especially tongues, to a person that believes that every bible is IMPERFECT?
If you want more proof that you claim all bibles have errors, just Google “all bibles have errors, Christian chat and Dino”.
3. I don't "support" any Bible. I use the NASB for daily reading, I also use the NIV (1975) and the KJV, along with a couple of interlinear versions, and I reference Young's Literal and a dozen others.
4. Because I understand that there are several approaches to translation, none of them perfect.
https://christianchat.com/threads/king-james-bible-only-or-not.153153/post-3111579
Now back to my previous statement. Do you really think God is going to show anything, especially tongues, to a person that believes that every bible is IMPERFECT?
If you want more proof that you claim all bibles have errors, just Google “all bibles have errors, Christian chat and Dino”.
If you don’t realize that you are the woman and Christ is the husband then you’re in pretty bad shape spiritually. That’s one of the most basic tenants of Christianity.
But I think I get it. The verses I brought up were written in tongues and yet don’t speak in tongues yet.
First get that heart circumcised so you can understand the KJV, then you can speak in tongues too. Hurry before it’s too late, things are about to go DRASTICALLY bad in this world.
But I think I get it. The verses I brought up were written in tongues and yet don’t speak in tongues yet.
First get that heart circumcised so you can understand the KJV, then you can speak in tongues too. Hurry before it’s too late, things are about to go DRASTICALLY bad in this world.
Hi Blane, just reiterating, this thread is about mindless incomprehensible babble practiced in many denominations today.
As we are aware the gatherings in Corinth were getting themselves into all sorts of issues needing some correcting by Paul. Mindless babble was one of those issues Paul had to address.
Well it's not so much about what I said, but more about what Paul said regarding this issue.
Can I encourage you to do a in depth research for yourself, particually I Corinthians chapter 14
As we are aware the gatherings in Corinth were getting themselves into all sorts of issues needing some correcting by Paul. Mindless babble was one of those issues Paul had to address.
Well it's not so much about what I said, but more about what Paul said regarding this issue.
Can I encourage you to do a in depth research for yourself, particually I Corinthians chapter 14
If you are inferring that I should ask Christ whether the KJV is the God-approved English translation of the Bible, you are out to lunch.
If you think that is that 1 Cor 14:34-35 mean, you are out to lunch.
No verse in the Bible is written in, or using, the manifestation of tongues.
I am saved, thank you very much, and I already do speak in tongues.
Your last statement may very well be true.
If you think that is that 1 Cor 14:34-35 mean, you are out to lunch.
No verse in the Bible is written in, or using, the manifestation of tongues.
I am saved, thank you very much, and I already do speak in tongues.
Your last statement may very well be true.
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LOl Gotta love the wonderful fill-ups. especially today with a 6 foot pandemic space. The filling station is closed.
Haters should look to the foundation of the law..( Isaiah 28) revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 . The law you and other that avoid searching after in exchange of self edifying, senseless wonders must .They avoid the foundation like a plague.
Prophecy is the tongue of God's understanding. Why promote no understanding, making the law without effect But rather make a baby sound falling backward. What's the falling backward all about .
Getting filled with self edifying wonderments?
Below is a portion of the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 founded in Isaiah 28.
The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.
”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. "They" will be defeated, trapped, and captured. Isaiah 28:9-14 .
Can you explain why they mock the spirit of judgment and call it getting filled or slain in the spirit?
How many time does a person need to be slain? Over and over ?
Haters should look to the foundation of the law..( Isaiah 28) revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 . The law you and other that avoid searching after in exchange of self edifying, senseless wonders must .They avoid the foundation like a plague.
Prophecy is the tongue of God's understanding. Why promote no understanding, making the law without effect But rather make a baby sound falling backward. What's the falling backward all about .
Getting filled with self edifying wonderments?
Below is a portion of the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 founded in Isaiah 28.
The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”
So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”
But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:
“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.
”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. "They" will be defeated, trapped, and captured. Isaiah 28:9-14 .
Can you explain why they mock the spirit of judgment and call it getting filled or slain in the spirit?
How many time does a person need to be slain? Over and over ?
S
I don't think you can get that from what I said. However if you did, I agree with you that is not how it works.
Now as to the benefit Paul saw in praying in an unknown tongue when his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful.
I don't think any of us can clearly explain the mystery behind prayer. Why we are asked to pray when God already knows what we need. We don't have to understand why we just do it because it is God's method and plan that we do it. We do not fully know what happens when we pray in the spirit but our understanding is unfruitful but we do it anyway.
If it is NOT because we are praying about things we do not understand needs to be prayed for, then it is for some other reason, that we do not understand. For one thing we can be certain of is that our understanding is unfruitful. Howbeit we do it anyway.
1 Cor 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
Also, for the benefit of those who respect non pentecostal theologians like F.F. Bruce enough to have an open ear to hear what Paul was talking about please see the below excerpt from F.F. Bruce commentary on Romans 8.
26. The Spirit himself intercedes for us. He is called the disciples’ ‘advocate’ (paraklētos) in John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 (see also note on verse 34, below). Cf. Ephesians 6:18, ‘Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.’ When believers pray ‘in the Spirit’, the Spirit himself intercedes on their behalf. (See p. 57.) With sighs too deep for words. ‘Through our inarticulate groans’ (NEB). The noun stenagmos, like the verb stenazō (used in verse 23), may denote either sighing or groaning. Speaking to God in the Spirit with ‘tongues’ (1 Cor. 14:2) may be included in this expression, but it covers those longings and aspirations which well up from the depths of the spirit and cannot be imprisoned within the confines of everyday words. In such prayer it is the indwelling Spirit who prays, and his mind is immediately read by the Father to whom the prayer is addressed (verse 27). Moreover, these ‘inarticulate groans’ cannot be dissociated from the groaning of verse 23, with which believers (together with all creation) express their longing for the coming resurrection-glory, which will consummate the answer to all their prayers. (See p. 58 with n. 77.)
Bruce, F. F.. Romans (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries) (p. 175). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.
So as you can see in the sentences in red that Bruce sees a connection between what Paul was referring to in praying in tongues and that separate subject of the groanings which cannot be uttered. They are not the same but the REASON might be the same. That just as the Spirit prays through us with groaning that cannot be uttered which in that context specifically says "because we know not what we should pray for as we ought" Bruce is saying that this praying in tongues that Paul did where his understanding was unfruitful was probably also for the same kind of purpose. Now many non pentecostals will agree with F. F. Bruce and I wanted to point out that he is intellectually honest about his interpretation of scripture even though he was not a pentecostal. He was far better at hermeneutics and interpretation of scriptures than anyone on these forumns including myself.
There is much benefit to praying in tongues and interceding in tongues. As a matter of fact all those who have recieved this gift and have prayed in tongues in private for thirty minutes have testimonies of experiencing a spiritual charging, and that when they get immediately into the study of the Word of God after such an intercession time they experience illumination that is beyond their normal bible study experience without praying in tongues for 30 minutes. It is obvious to those who experience these benefits that something awesome happens from praying in tongues that enables them to have understanding in the scriptures, a concentration, a quick recall of other scriptures that contribute to a sudden illumination of a theological concept that they realize was there all along but they had passed over it many times without the light turning on. Their heart burns within them as the see JESUS revealed in Old Testament scriptures and they KNOW it is a direct result of praying 30 minutes in tongues before they started their study.
I hesitate to share these precious benefits in a forum like this because afterwards I cringe at some of the statements that people will make as they proceed to trample on these precious pearls. Please don't be that guy.
Now as to the benefit Paul saw in praying in an unknown tongue when his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful.
I don't think any of us can clearly explain the mystery behind prayer. Why we are asked to pray when God already knows what we need. We don't have to understand why we just do it because it is God's method and plan that we do it. We do not fully know what happens when we pray in the spirit but our understanding is unfruitful but we do it anyway.
If it is NOT because we are praying about things we do not understand needs to be prayed for, then it is for some other reason, that we do not understand. For one thing we can be certain of is that our understanding is unfruitful. Howbeit we do it anyway.
1 Cor 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
Also, for the benefit of those who respect non pentecostal theologians like F.F. Bruce enough to have an open ear to hear what Paul was talking about please see the below excerpt from F.F. Bruce commentary on Romans 8.
26. The Spirit himself intercedes for us. He is called the disciples’ ‘advocate’ (paraklētos) in John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 (see also note on verse 34, below). Cf. Ephesians 6:18, ‘Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.’ When believers pray ‘in the Spirit’, the Spirit himself intercedes on their behalf. (See p. 57.) With sighs too deep for words. ‘Through our inarticulate groans’ (NEB). The noun stenagmos, like the verb stenazō (used in verse 23), may denote either sighing or groaning. Speaking to God in the Spirit with ‘tongues’ (1 Cor. 14:2) may be included in this expression, but it covers those longings and aspirations which well up from the depths of the spirit and cannot be imprisoned within the confines of everyday words. In such prayer it is the indwelling Spirit who prays, and his mind is immediately read by the Father to whom the prayer is addressed (verse 27). Moreover, these ‘inarticulate groans’ cannot be dissociated from the groaning of verse 23, with which believers (together with all creation) express their longing for the coming resurrection-glory, which will consummate the answer to all their prayers. (See p. 58 with n. 77.)
Bruce, F. F.. Romans (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries) (p. 175). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.
So as you can see in the sentences in red that Bruce sees a connection between what Paul was referring to in praying in tongues and that separate subject of the groanings which cannot be uttered. They are not the same but the REASON might be the same. That just as the Spirit prays through us with groaning that cannot be uttered which in that context specifically says "because we know not what we should pray for as we ought" Bruce is saying that this praying in tongues that Paul did where his understanding was unfruitful was probably also for the same kind of purpose. Now many non pentecostals will agree with F. F. Bruce and I wanted to point out that he is intellectually honest about his interpretation of scripture even though he was not a pentecostal. He was far better at hermeneutics and interpretation of scriptures than anyone on these forumns including myself.
There is much benefit to praying in tongues and interceding in tongues. As a matter of fact all those who have recieved this gift and have prayed in tongues in private for thirty minutes have testimonies of experiencing a spiritual charging, and that when they get immediately into the study of the Word of God after such an intercession time they experience illumination that is beyond their normal bible study experience without praying in tongues for 30 minutes. It is obvious to those who experience these benefits that something awesome happens from praying in tongues that enables them to have understanding in the scriptures, a concentration, a quick recall of other scriptures that contribute to a sudden illumination of a theological concept that they realize was there all along but they had passed over it many times without the light turning on. Their heart burns within them as the see JESUS revealed in Old Testament scriptures and they KNOW it is a direct result of praying 30 minutes in tongues before they started their study.
I hesitate to share these precious benefits in a forum like this because afterwards I cringe at some of the statements that people will make as they proceed to trample on these precious pearls. Please don't be that guy.
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Actually Paul said that there was NO BENEFIT. Please note carefully:
BOTH MIND AND SPIRIT MUST BE ENGAGED IN PRAYER
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (1 Cor 14:15)
BOTH MIND AND SPIRIT MUST BE ENGAGED IN PRAYER
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (1 Cor 14:15)
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I don't think you can get that from what I said. However if you did, I agree with you that is not how it works.
Now as to the benefit Paul saw in praying in an unknown tongue when his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful.
I don't think any of us can clearly explain the mystery behind prayer. Why we are asked to pray when God already knows what we need. We don't have to understand why we just do it because it is God's method and plan that we do it. We do not fully know what happens when we pray in the spirit but our understanding is unfruitful but we do it anyway.
If it is NOT because we are praying about things we do not understand needs to be prayed for, then it is for some other reason, that we do not understand. For one thing we can be certain of is that our understanding is unfruitful. Howbeit we do it anyway.
1 Cor 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
Also, for the benefit of those who respect non pentecostal theologians like F.F. Bruce enough to have an open ear to hear what Paul was talking about please see the below excerpt from F.F. Bruce commentary on Romans 8.
26. The Spirit himself intercedes for us. He is called the disciples’ ‘advocate’ (paraklētos) in John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 (see also note on verse 34, below). Cf. Ephesians 6:18, ‘Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.’ When believers pray ‘in the Spirit’, the Spirit himself intercedes on their behalf. (See p. 57.) With sighs too deep for words. ‘Through our inarticulate groans’ (NEB). The noun stenagmos, like the verb stenazō (used in verse 23), may denote either sighing or groaning. Speaking to God in the Spirit with ‘tongues’ (1 Cor. 14:2) may be included in this expression, but it covers those longings and aspirations which well up from the depths of the spirit and cannot be imprisoned within the confines of everyday words. In such prayer it is the indwelling Spirit who prays, and his mind is immediately read by the Father to whom the prayer is addressed (verse 27). Moreover, these ‘inarticulate groans’ cannot be dissociated from the groaning of verse 23, with which believers (together with all creation) express their longing for the coming resurrection-glory, which will consummate the answer to all their prayers. (See p. 58 with n. 77.)
Bruce, F. F.. Romans (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries) (p. 175). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.
So as you can see in the sentences in red that Bruce sees a connection between what Paul was referring to in praying in tongues and that separate subject of the groanings which cannot be uttered. They are not the same but the REASON might be the same. That just as the Spirit prays through us with groaning that cannot be uttered which in that context specifically says "because we know not what we should pray for as we ought" Bruce is saying that this praying in tongues that Paul did where his understanding was unfruitful was probably also for the same kind of purpose. Now many non pentecostals will agree with F. F. Bruce and I wanted to point out that he is intellectually honest about his interpretation of scripture even though he was not a pentecostal. He was far better at hermeneutics and interpretation of scriptures than anyone on these forumns including myself.
There is much benefit to praying in tongues and interceding in tongues. As a matter of fact all those who have recieved this gift and have prayed in tongues in private for thirty minutes have testimonies of experiencing a spiritual charging, and that when they get immediately into the study of the Word of God after such an intercession time they experience illumination that is beyond their normal bible study experience without praying in tongues for 30 minutes. It is obvious to those who experience these benefits that something awesome happens from praying in tongues that enables them to have understanding in the scriptures, a concentration, a quick recall of other scriptures that contribute to a sudden illumination of a theological concept that they realize was there all along but they had passed over it many times without the light turning on. Their heart burns within them as the see JESUS revealed in Old Testament scriptures and they KNOW it is a direct result of praying 30 minutes in tongues before they started their study.
I hesitate to share these precious benefits in a forum like this because afterwards I cringe at some of the statements that people will make as they proceed to trample on these precious pearls. Please don't be that guy.
Now as to the benefit Paul saw in praying in an unknown tongue when his spirit prayed but his understanding was unfruitful.
I don't think any of us can clearly explain the mystery behind prayer. Why we are asked to pray when God already knows what we need. We don't have to understand why we just do it because it is God's method and plan that we do it. We do not fully know what happens when we pray in the spirit but our understanding is unfruitful but we do it anyway.
If it is NOT because we are praying about things we do not understand needs to be prayed for, then it is for some other reason, that we do not understand. For one thing we can be certain of is that our understanding is unfruitful. Howbeit we do it anyway.
1 Cor 14: 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
Also, for the benefit of those who respect non pentecostal theologians like F.F. Bruce enough to have an open ear to hear what Paul was talking about please see the below excerpt from F.F. Bruce commentary on Romans 8.
26. The Spirit himself intercedes for us. He is called the disciples’ ‘advocate’ (paraklētos) in John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7 (see also note on verse 34, below). Cf. Ephesians 6:18, ‘Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.’ When believers pray ‘in the Spirit’, the Spirit himself intercedes on their behalf. (See p. 57.) With sighs too deep for words. ‘Through our inarticulate groans’ (NEB). The noun stenagmos, like the verb stenazō (used in verse 23), may denote either sighing or groaning. Speaking to God in the Spirit with ‘tongues’ (1 Cor. 14:2) may be included in this expression, but it covers those longings and aspirations which well up from the depths of the spirit and cannot be imprisoned within the confines of everyday words. In such prayer it is the indwelling Spirit who prays, and his mind is immediately read by the Father to whom the prayer is addressed (verse 27). Moreover, these ‘inarticulate groans’ cannot be dissociated from the groaning of verse 23, with which believers (together with all creation) express their longing for the coming resurrection-glory, which will consummate the answer to all their prayers. (See p. 58 with n. 77.)
Bruce, F. F.. Romans (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries) (p. 175). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.
So as you can see in the sentences in red that Bruce sees a connection between what Paul was referring to in praying in tongues and that separate subject of the groanings which cannot be uttered. They are not the same but the REASON might be the same. That just as the Spirit prays through us with groaning that cannot be uttered which in that context specifically says "because we know not what we should pray for as we ought" Bruce is saying that this praying in tongues that Paul did where his understanding was unfruitful was probably also for the same kind of purpose. Now many non pentecostals will agree with F. F. Bruce and I wanted to point out that he is intellectually honest about his interpretation of scripture even though he was not a pentecostal. He was far better at hermeneutics and interpretation of scriptures than anyone on these forumns including myself.
There is much benefit to praying in tongues and interceding in tongues. As a matter of fact all those who have recieved this gift and have prayed in tongues in private for thirty minutes have testimonies of experiencing a spiritual charging, and that when they get immediately into the study of the Word of God after such an intercession time they experience illumination that is beyond their normal bible study experience without praying in tongues for 30 minutes. It is obvious to those who experience these benefits that something awesome happens from praying in tongues that enables them to have understanding in the scriptures, a concentration, a quick recall of other scriptures that contribute to a sudden illumination of a theological concept that they realize was there all along but they had passed over it many times without the light turning on. Their heart burns within them as the see JESUS revealed in Old Testament scriptures and they KNOW it is a direct result of praying 30 minutes in tongues before they started their study.
I hesitate to share these precious benefits in a forum like this because afterwards I cringe at some of the statements that people will make as they proceed to trample on these precious pearls. Please don't be that guy.
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