The truth about tongues: a DIVISIVE force in Christianity today

[Blain]

blain what you up to? i always remember the story you said about working in the heat and it was so hot you went around back into a walk in freezer and layed down on some frozen french fries or something. they way you told it sounded so funny.

yeah the real tongues had a legit reason, they were commanded to go off into the nations where they spoke unknown language.

Well after I had to stop working there mainly because it was the not my choice but the people at little ceasers were worried about me I had a very hard time finding a job anywhere else, being how I am disabled more physically weak than others they let me go for health reasons/
After that I got my eye infected and I was unable to see anyone who could actually help at that time because the people I lived with said it was just allerfies, but as it turns out the infection got so bad it aspread to my other eye and I was almost completely blind it has been over a year now and my eyes are still not fully healed I have my eyes sown shut about 60% with very expensive eye frops just to get them healed again.

only this year was I able to see enough to be on cc again and we are still trying to save my eyes, I am a hard worker but I need the chance to actually do it, so far it seems working is not something God has allowed.
But then again I did kind of ask for it, I am always hungry for him so much so I feel starved at times and on my walk with him I came to the realization I will only truly find him in the storm so I said to him no matter what the cost or what I have to go through if it meant finding him at the end of the darl tunnel I would go through hell itself if it mean finding him.
Ironically I always said to him It isn't these eyes I want to see through and no sooner had I told him these things did my eyes have these problems, I literally was almost completely blind and I still am legally blind but hey be carefuk what you wish for right?

There were so many times I had to go through things that terrify me like having needles stuck in my eyes without anything to dull the pain or surgeries that went wrong or times
I was so blind I ran into walls. But one thing I did gain from this was learning to choose to trust him, it has always come naturally to me but in this storm I had to choose to trust him.

 

[garee]

This is a strawman. You are stating something you believe as though it was a fact. It's not. "The completeness" does not mean "the complete written Bible". It's just something you believe because you are a cessationist.


Tongues, prophecy, and word of knowledge are not gifts, they are manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Tongues and prophecy are not "divine revelation". Tongues is a person speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2). Prophecy are words of edification, exhortation, and comfort to the church (1 Cor 14:3). The manifestation of prophecy is not further revelation to add to the Bible. Getting a word of knowledge is revelation, but again, it is not to add to the Bible. It is God giving you information about something.


Since you do not know that tongues, prophecy, and a word of knowledge are for, your conclusion is faulty, and wrong.


You do not understand what tongues is. You are afraid of it. So you diss it.


Now THAT is not a rational statement. That's like saying because not all people are good drivers, nobody should drive.

Rational according to what, lying wonderments?

A person cannot just make up things as they go along. There is a foundation already set up in the old testament .It was fulfilled in the new.

Tongues is prophecy, God's divine understanding to mankind . When a person tries to separate the understanding of God from prophecy then you have mumbling senseless sounds as lying wonderments..

The law is clear.. Prophecy in the language of all nations.


Believers those who have a new tongue the gospel

Unbelievers Those who reject prophecy the tongue of God in any language

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14:21 -22

How do you define the law? Who and what does the sign represent .Those who beleive prophecy the tongue of God or those who will have nothing to do with prophecy.

 

[garee]

Fallacy: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Did you have something to add to it as your evidence? Is there a law missing by which we could know our God more adequately? Or is evidence needed to believe non evidence Just beleive without a foundation ? Babbling making senseless self edifying sounds and calling that evidence?

Where the evidence ?

 

[Nehemiah6]

He said by revelation that he would like all Christians to speak in tongues.

Not really. Let's take a close look at what was actually said, and why it was said: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. (1 Cor 14:5)

Does that sound like Paul saying that he really would like to see all speak in tongues? The "but rather" is the clue to understanding what Paul really said.
What Paul is saying above in modern parlance is "It would be really nice -- in other words it is wishful thinking on your part -- but I have already told you that not all will speak in tongues" (1 Cor 12:30).

And here is how this verse should be understood today:
International Standard Version
Now I wish that all of you could speak in foreign languages, but especially that you could prophesy. The person who prophesies is more important than the person who speaks in a foreign language, unless he interprets it so that the church may be built up.

Also, prophecies were for that time (in the apostolic churches). They are not for today (as Paul already told us).

 

[Absolutely]

If modern tongues were the same as biblical tongues, there would be no division. And the doctrine which was postulated to justify modern tongues was also divisive.

Nothing has changed
Tongues are of the same Holy Spirit

Mockers ,detractors,busybodies,and keyboard experts we will always have with us.

The mentally discerning will never ever see the same thing as those walking in the spirit.

Spirit preceeds .
Manifestation follows.

The root of tongues is the Holy Spirit.

Satan can counterfeit.

Without the prism I just outlined,all we have is people guessing.

Those that move and operate in the spirit are usually not the world's impressive people.

God uses the foolish things to confound the "wise"

Mental discernment will get us some place.

Not far,but some little place nonetheless.

 

[Reformyourself]

Another language only

 

[garee]

Nothing has changed
Tongues are of the same Holy Spirit

Mockers ,detractors,busybodies,and keyboard experts we will always have with us.

The mentally discerning will never ever see the same thing as those walking in the spirit.

Spirit preceeds .
Manifestation follows.

The root of tongues is the Holy Spirit.

Satan can counterfeit.

Without the prism I just outlined,all we have is people guessing.

Those that move and operate in the spirit are usually not the world's impressive people.

God uses the foolish things to confound the "wise"

Mental discernment will get us some place.

Not far, but some little place nonetheless.

Mental discernment is how we receive the spiritual understanding. Let the mind of Christ dwell in us. he helps us understanding the parables .They are hid from those who seek after signs and wonders.

The root of tongues is the Holy Spirit. The foundation of the doctrine is found in Isaiah 28.

What does it inform us seeing the law is revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22?

Do we pretend there is no foundation? Men one day just started making senseless noise and fell backward for some reason ? Where did the mighty force come from that causes them to fall backward. . . in the spirit of judgement? "I AM He" ? That unseen force?

John 18:5-6 King James Version (KJV) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Falling backward quite a wonderment to them who seek after a signs and wonders gospel. None was given. The sign of Jonas the last.

Why not simply believe prophecy the tongue of God? What hope is there in wondering?
.

 

[Washed]

lets start over, you dont seem to be getting what i am trying to explain.

lets say you have two men, both have wives in the hospital with the flu. both men pray, one man prays in tongues the angel language (mystery /spirit etc), the other man prays in tongues the common language.

please explain the difference in these prayers.

One of the men is praying to God in his known language, the other is operating a manifestation of the gift of the gift of the Holy Spirit, praying in a language he does not know.

 

[Washed]

another problem with tongues, if you go through the bible and examine the divine gifts given by the Father, fire from heaven, staff turning to a snake, remote viewing, walking on water, healing leprosy, casting out demons, etc etc, unless you have divine help from the heavens (gift) you cant do these things, people cant just go walk on water or heal leprosy with a single touch, however tongues as in a mystery language is something anyone can do, all you have to do is start making babble sounds.

Speaking in tongues is not "babble sounds". It is you speaking in a language you do not know as inspired by the Spirit.

 

[Duskey]

You can claim whatever you desire, I received the gift of speaking in tongues 43 years ago while in my room praying, and it's exactly the same today.

Are you superior to other Christians because you have the gift of tongues?

 

[Washed]

Yep, this is the elephant in the room.

No one can verify tongues, unlike the other gifts, so that is the clear reason why continualists focus so much on tongues.

What would satisfy you? What would convince you tongues are "genuine"?

 

[Washed]

Yes modern tongues serve no other purppse but true tongues that of which is born out of a true of heart of God and from God is born from only the most pure of reasons. Todays tongues is so commonly mimicked abd misused so much so people think tongues whenever talked about testified of or even heard of from other people is fake and sadly I have enbcountered mostly fake tongues.

The state of which tonguies is now thanks to these so called tongue speakers makes it appear fake and irrelevant, had i not grown to believe what I do based solely on him and not on other people or what I percieve to be truth I also would have without a doubt seen tongues as not just fake but complete nonsense.

However there is a true tongues given only to the worthy. I have encountered tongues only once and what it did for me I can never forget. I am sure the enemy would love for us to think tongues is gone but even if I haden;t experienced it myself I base my beliefs not on what I think I know or what others think they know but what I have come to know of him.
The enemy has done a great job of producing fake tongues, so much so people think it is gone, but anyone who knows me on here knows I am an honest person perhaps to honest given I give testimony to what I have seen and experienced to much and the only testimony to my name for tongues was perhaps the most profund and powerful thing I have experienced in him

Why do you say that "modern" tongues are not true tongues? Where do you get the idea tongues are mimicked, faked, and irrelevant?

 

[Washed]

blain what you up to? i always remember the story you said about working in the heat and it was so hot you went around back into a walk in freezer and layed down on some frozen french fries or something. they way you told it sounded so funny.

yeah the real tongues had a legit reason, they were commanded to go off into the nations where they spoke unknown language.

Speaking in tongues is not a witnessing tool. It is not for missionary work. It is a Christian speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2).

 

[Washed]

we are told to test all things.

What would satisfy you?

 

[Washed]

Rational according to what, lying wonderments?

A person cannot just make up things as they go along. There is a foundation already set up in the old testament .It was fulfilled in the new.

Tongues is prophecy, God's divine understanding to mankind . When a person tries to separate the understanding of God from prophecy then you have mumbling senseless sounds as lying wonderments..

The law is clear.. Prophecy in the language of all nations.


Believers those who have a new tongue the gospel

Unbelievers Those who reject prophecy the tongue of God in any language

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14:21 -22

How do you define the law? Who and what does the sign represent .Those who beleive prophecy the tongue of God or those who will have nothing to do with prophecy.

I'm sorry, garee, but typical of most of your posts, this is incomprehensible. It seems you just string a lot of religious sounding words together. One point: tongues is not prophecy. It never has been, and never will be.

 

[Washed]

He said by revelation that he would like all Christians to speak in tongues.

Not really.

1 Cor 14:5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Let's take a close look at what was actually said, and why it was said: I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. (1 Cor 14:5)

Does that sound like Paul saying that he really would like to see all speak in tongues?

Yes, it does. To deny it is simply denying the words of scripture.

The "but rather" is the clue to understanding what Paul really said.
What Paul is saying above in modern parlance is "It would be really nice -- in other words it is wishful thinking on your part -- but I have already told you that not all will speak in tongues" (1 Cor 12:30).

That is a COMPLETE bastardization of what Paul said. Here is what he said:

1 Cor 14:5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Paul said he would like all Christians to speak in tongues, but rather that they prophesied, because greater is he that prophesies than he that speaks in tongues EXCEPT [unless] HE INTERPRET, so the church can be edified.

And here is how this verse should be understood today:
International Standard Version
Now I wish that all of you could speak in foreign languages, but especially that you could prophesy. The person who prophesies is more important than the person who speaks in a foreign language, unless he interprets it so that the church may be built up.

Do not ignore the rest of the verse: "...unless he interprets so the church can be built up".

Also, prophecies were for that time (in the apostolic churches).

Prophecies are also for today, for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of the church.

They are not for today (as Paul already told us).

Paul said no such thing.

 

[Washed]

Are you superior to other Christians because you have the gift of tongues?

Christians who operate the manifestation of speaking in tongues are not superior in any way to Christians who don't.

 

[Dino246]

Did you have something to add to it as your evidence? Is there a law missing by which we could know our God more adequately? Or is evidence needed to believe non evidence Just beleive without a foundation ? Babbling making senseless self edifying sounds and calling that evidence?

Where the evidence ?

Your babbling senseless post might have some value if you understood what I had written. You don't... clearly.

 

[Dino246]

I'm sorry, garee, but typical of most of your posts, this is incomprehensible. It seems you just string a lot of religious sounding words together. One point: tongues is not prophecy. It never has been, and never will be.

I have tried explaining that to him... repeatedly. Save yourself the frustration.

 

[Guojing]

What would satisfy you? What would convince you tongues are "genuine"?

How about if they are actual foreign languages that the speaker did not learn? Are those extinct already?