I agree with you, but who does Jesus say is the only true God? See John 17:3.
Questions about JW’s
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John 14:7 - 11
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
I'm one of Jehovah's witnesses and thought I'll quickly address the points you made, for the benefit of others, as some are inaccurate.
"..So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam [Jesus] became a life-giving spirit.." (1 Corinthians 15:45)
"..He [Jesus] was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.." (1 Peter 3:18)
FALSE. We accept that Jesus is God, in a certain sense (Isaiah 9:6, John 10:28, Heb 1:8), we simply do not accept him as the 'one God'. Scripture is clear that the 'one God' is the Father, this is according to 1 Cor 8:4-6 among other scriptures, "there is no God but one...just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ...", as we can see by the verse, only the Father is identified as the 'one God', not Jesus.
TRUE, we deny the trinity doctrine.
TRUE, we deny that Jesus rose with the same body he died in, rather, we believe he rose in a 'spirit body', this is based on the fact that scripture explicitly states Jesus rose as a spirit:
"..So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam [Jesus] became a life-giving spirit.." (1 Corinthians 15:45)
"..He [Jesus] was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.." (1 Peter 3:18)
SOMEWHAT TRUE, Angel is simply a term relating to a spirit person (see Hebrews 1:7), Angels are spirits, Demons are also spirits as well as God himself. Anyone who is not the 'one God' is an angelic/spirit being, one of the only distinction between spirits is between a wicked spirit (fallen angel). Since Jesus is not the 'one God' he is a spirit being, we believe Jesus to be the highest being in the universe both prior and after his coming to earth after the 'one God' the Father.
HALF TRUE. We do not believe in a literal fiery hell, this is because it does not fit in with God's nature of love and because of many scriptures contradicting the notion of a fiery hell, for example, Romans 6:23 states "the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord", if the wages sin pay is death, if we die without the gift of eternal life then our sins have been paid by out death, as the verse states, so it goes beyond Scripture and what God has revealed to state God eternally tortures us.
TRUE. We believe only 144,00 will go to heaven, everyone else will remain on the new earth mention in "the new Heaven and new Earth" in Rev 21:1-5. Scripture is clear that the 'meek will inherit the earth' (Matt 5:5), and "The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it" (Ps 37:29).
FALSE, we do not believe Jesus is Lucifer's brother, it is Mormons that believe this, not JW's.
FALSE, the curse to Adam is still in effect today, hence why we're all still dying since it was death that was the curse.
FALSE, we do not believe in sinless perfectionism, we can only attain perfection by means of Jesus Christ and being brought to perfection by means of him.
I do not understand what you said about the tree, but yes, we believe Jesus death was an equivalent/corresponding sacrifice in relation to what Adam lost, hence the reason why Jesus is called the "last Adam" (see 1 Cor 15:45 and 1 Cor 15:22). We believe Jesus death was to atone for our sins.
FALSE, only those who accept the ransom and worship God will attain eternal life, any unbelievers will not survive.
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you
overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood. Acts 20:28
Thanks, but you did not answer the question. Please address John 17:3.
As someone else highlighted, not believing that Jesus is the 'one God' does not mean you are not Christian. The term 'Christian' was penned and applied to someone who was a follower of Christ, thus, anyone who follows Christ is a Christian according to the definition. There is nothing in the bible that stipulates that one has to accept the trinity or that Jesus it the 'one God' to be called a Christian, this idea is typically pushed by Trinitarians to muddy the image of anyone not accepting trinitarianism.
Thayers Greek Lexicon: STRONGS 5546, Χριστιανός..Χριστιανου, ὁ (Χριστός), a Christian, a follower of Christ
I missed this one by mistake.
FALSE, we do not view all other versions of the bible to be false, in fact no translation of the bible is 100% correct, not even the NWT, only the orginal Hebrew and Greek manuscripts are correct and inspired, all bibles are simply translations 'of' the inspired texts. JW's use many bibles, we are not told to stick to the NWT, it is simply the bible we most readily use. Even in the JW app that is available to anyone with a smartphone contains the NWT, KJV, Byington, and ASV, all of which are trinitarian translation, except of course the NWT.
The note about the NWT having the most errors and words changed is false, the NWT has not done anything different to what many bibles have done apart from one thing, which is putting the name Jehovah in the NT in some places. Other than that the NWT contains far less errors than most commonly used bibles on the simple basis most have removed God's name Jehovah/Yahweh/YHWH almost 7000 times. Which means, a typical bible you pick up has 7000 more errors than the NWT does.
FALSE, we do not view all other versions of the bible to be false, in fact no translation of the bible is 100% correct, not even the NWT, only the orginal Hebrew and Greek manuscripts are correct and inspired, all bibles are simply translations 'of' the inspired texts. JW's use many bibles, we are not told to stick to the NWT, it is simply the bible we most readily use. Even in the JW app that is available to anyone with a smartphone contains the NWT, KJV, Byington, and ASV, all of which are trinitarian translation, except of course the NWT.
The note about the NWT having the most errors and words changed is false, the NWT has not done anything different to what many bibles have done apart from one thing, which is putting the name Jehovah in the NT in some places. Other than that the NWT contains far less errors than most commonly used bibles on the simple basis most have removed God's name Jehovah/Yahweh/YHWH almost 7000 times. Which means, a typical bible you pick up has 7000 more errors than the NWT does.
J
jaybird88
Guest
But according to you they are not allowed to follow scripture, they have to follow your church.
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jaybird88
Guest
J
jaybird88
Guest
You mean they edited the scripture like 1 John 5 where people changed the scripture to read Father, Son, spirit? That kind of editing?
That's not a bad definition.
Where does the Bible say you have to believe in the Trinity or believe that Jesus Christ is God in order to be a Christian?
I didnt use Webster dictionary, I used Joseph Thayer definition in his lexicon, which I the best lexicon of the NT in history.
Where in John 3 and Ezekiel 36 does it define the term Christian?
Rob Bowman has a complete set of Scriptural reasons for the subpoints of the Trinity doctrine here:
http://bib.irr.org/biblical-basis-o...2XWq1YXRAfRgBJ1F_KupvTOtzrGdC-KiOk_lXfJ3IKevI
There is one God.
This one God is the single divine being known in the OT as Jehovah or Yahweh (“the LORD”).
The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is God.
The Son, Jesus Christ, is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each someone distinct from the other two.
Conclusion: The Bible teaches the Trinity.
What difference does the doctrine of the Trinity make?
Using his Scripture proofs, you can easily defend the Trinity against heretical views of God's nature.
For instance, Oneness people deny this point: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each someone distinct from the other two.
Like I have said, heretical groups also distort church history to justify their claims and to support their boogeyman narrative of Constantine or the Roman Catholic church. The RC Church has doctrinal errors but the Trinity is not one of them.
http://bib.irr.org/biblical-basis-o...2XWq1YXRAfRgBJ1F_KupvTOtzrGdC-KiOk_lXfJ3IKevI
There is one God.
This one God is the single divine being known in the OT as Jehovah or Yahweh (“the LORD”).
The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is God.
The Son, Jesus Christ, is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each someone distinct from the other two.
Conclusion: The Bible teaches the Trinity.
What difference does the doctrine of the Trinity make?
Using his Scripture proofs, you can easily defend the Trinity against heretical views of God's nature.
For instance, Oneness people deny this point: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each someone distinct from the other two.
Like I have said, heretical groups also distort church history to justify their claims and to support their boogeyman narrative of Constantine or the Roman Catholic church. The RC Church has doctrinal errors but the Trinity is not one of them.
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FAQ: 1Cor 15:50 says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of
God. Wouldn't that fact alone preclude the possibility of Christ's crucified
dead body restored to life and taken to Heaven?
A: The kingdom of God is one of the "earthly things" that Jesus and
Nicodemus discussed in John 3:3-12; so we're not talking about Heaven in
1Cor 15:50.
Also, the Greek word translated "inherit" is kleronomeo (klay-ron-om-eh'-o)
which speaks of heirs; roughly defined by Webster's as someone who is
entitled to receive something from an ancestor.
In a nutshell, the kingdom of God is not the kind of estate that natural
parents can share with their natural posterity by means of either a trust fund
or a will. People can only inherit the kingdom of God from God; and not just
from God as a supreme being, but from God as a parent, i.e. a Father. So
then; in order to be entitled to an inheritance from God, people must first
qualify as His legal kin.
Now, this matter of inheritance is a serious problem for non Spirit-born JWs
because they do not expect, neither in this life nor the next, to undergo the
supernatural birth spoken of in John 1:12-13 and John 3:3-12.
It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank and file
missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will
never be allowed to enter.
_
FAQ: 1Cor 15:50 says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of
God. Wouldn't that fact alone preclude the possibility of Christ's crucified
dead body restored to life and taken to Heaven?
A: The kingdom of God is one of the "earthly things" that Jesus and
Nicodemus discussed in John 3:3-12; so we're not talking about Heaven in
1Cor 15:50.
Also, the Greek word translated "inherit" is kleronomeo (klay-ron-om-eh'-o)
which speaks of heirs; roughly defined by Webster's as someone who is
entitled to receive something from an ancestor.
In a nutshell, the kingdom of God is not the kind of estate that natural
parents can share with their natural posterity by means of either a trust fund
or a will. People can only inherit the kingdom of God from God; and not just
from God as a supreme being, but from God as a parent, i.e. a Father. So
then; in order to be entitled to an inheritance from God, people must first
qualify as His legal kin.
Now, this matter of inheritance is a serious problem for non Spirit-born JWs
because they do not expect, neither in this life nor the next, to undergo the
supernatural birth spoken of in John 1:12-13 and John 3:3-12.
It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank and file
missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will
never be allowed to enter.
_
Actually Thayer was a Unitarian and he did not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ. Having said that I have one question for you that perhaps you can clear up.
Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, and spreading out the earth ALL ALONE.
So, why is Jesus Christ, the Son of God identified as the creator at John 1:3, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him, (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being."
Or at Colossians 1:16, "For by Him ALL THINGS were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorties--ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM."
Hebrews 1:10. God the Father is speaking about His Son." And Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst LAY THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORK OF THY HANDS."
Finally, Revelation 3:14. "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God." The Greek word for "Beginning" in the verse is "arche." We get our English word "architect" from that word. An architec is the one who designs the plans, or is the "origin/planner" of something. This verse is "NOT" teaching that Jesus is a created being. And btw, neither is Proverbs 8:22 teaching Jesus is created.
So, how do you reconcile what Isaiah 44:24 says that God created all alone and by Himself with the verses I just posted? One more thing I would like to know? The NWT has inserted the word "other" at Colossians 1:16. Can you please give me a list of what these so-called "other" things are that are not included in the "ALL" things that have been created by Jesus Christ?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto