Not By Works

[jaybo]

Yeah

if you are uncapped if falling into sin you can not be tempted if that sin

Say what??

 

[DorothyMae]

How was he tempted them?

By listening to Satan?

He listened to Satan in the sense that he heard the communication and responded but that response was not in agreement. One has to listen to the other to know how to respond. Doesn’t mean acquiesce to the wishes of the other.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dottie has the gumption to speak about our "names" here yet, she calls us OSAS not believing, not knowing, not understanding how God works? How confused she truly is. Kind of like those who can dish it out but cannot take it and cry "victim"

Well she can do it in private now. I can no longer see what she says

 

[DorothyMae]

DM - ALL the works for salvation are COMPLETE IN CHRIST ALONE for EVERY true born again believer that has received the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ as The Lamb of God that takes our sin away and has imputed His Incorruptible SEED of the Word of God - His Body - The Lord our Righteousness in us. THERE ARE NO MORE WORKS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION for those that are saved and born again IN Christ Jesus.

Our spirits are now made alive and we have a NEW Nature that is spiritual, NOT sinful which simply means we no longer desire to sin, if and when we do fall into temptation and sin, sinning makes us miserable. So, we cry for help because we realize we're still dealing with sin and it confuses us.

It's now time for the Holy Spirit to do His works in us. Jesus Christ had to go so the Holy Spirit would come. Jesus FINISHED His works which pertained to Salvation. Now, the Holy Spirit has a work to do - we are SEALED, BAPTIZED and CONTINUALLY FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

It is in the POWER of the Holy Spirit that we are able to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh - it is a growing up process - NOT IMMEDIATE.

Our minds have to be renewed with God's Word and God's Holy Spirit so we can know the perfect Will of God and love it and do it.

It's quite common for saved believers to doubt their salvation because they're still dealing with this sin issue but, Salvation is complete. We just need to cooperate now with the Holy Spirit in the renewing of our minds.

The "work of the Holy Spirit" is to comfort us, lead us, guide us, counsel us, teach us, instruct us, correct us, and empower us to be effective witnesses of Jesus Christ in the Earth.

The more our minds get renewed, the more of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit starts manifesting in our lives and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit manifest, too.

We just need to embrace the Gift of the Holy Spirit by Faith - the same way we embraced the Gift of Salvation in Christ Jesus, and stop resisting, quenching, grieving, and neglecting the Holy Spirit and His work that needs to be done in us.

There's NO NEED to argue over Salvation anymore, time to move on.

Move on from salvation is my whole goal. There is more than salvation in Christ. Let’s stop discussing salvation by all means.

Do you really see that sinning makes all Christians miserable? Really? Don’t you see repetitive sin even here and no misery is detected? There is the theory and there is reality. They aren’t the same.

I actually don’t see that it’s natural for new believers to question their salvation. I cannot recall ever wondering. I think the real salvation experience is so remarkable that the change is a new creature. I do see that merely dry eyed praying a prayer and others pronouncing you “now saved for eternity” might result in uncertainty.

Now I notice you clearly admit we can quench, resist and grieve the Holy Spirit. That is mainly what I also wanted to say. We can do all of these and He is less in our lives if we do. Do you agree ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Say what??

Hate spell check. Lol

If you incapable of falling into a particular sin you can not be tempted of that sin

 

[DorothyMae]

Well she can do it in private now. I can no longer see what she says

Even better for me.

 

[jackrosie]

Hate spell check. Lol

If you incapable of falling into a particular sin you can not be tempted of that sin[/


As a non believer,..There was an area in my life,that I felt very,very strongly about and never gave into desire of the flesh

When I became born again...I was even more stronger in that area,because of the Holy Spirit....I just know in my heart,that I will not give into temptation in that area......,.and the enemy has tempted me to the hilt.....many,many times.

 

[EleventhHour]

Move on from salvation is my whole goal. There is more than salvation in Christ. Let’s stop discussing salvation by all means.

Do you really see that sinning makes all Christians miserable? Really? Don’t you see repetitive sin even here and no misery is detected? There is the theory and there is reality. They aren’t the same.

I actually don’t see that it’s natural for new believers to question their salvation. I cannot recall ever wondering. I think the real salvation experience is so remarkable that the change is a new creature. I do see that merely dry eyed praying a prayer and others pronouncing you “now saved for eternity” might result in uncertainty.

Now I notice you clearly admit we can quench, resist and grieve the Holy Spirit. That is mainly what I also wanted to say. We can do all of these and He is less in our lives if we do. Do you agree ?

Exactly how can one become a NEW creation in Christ under "your un-biblical formula" when He did not atone for all your sins....past present and future?

 

[jackrosie]

God doesn’t see our sin they are hidden in Christ.....we have been cleansed from sin and are a new creation in him....our journey begins....our true journey that is....because God brought us to his truth.

God is the truth.......the world isn’t.?????

 

[EleventhHour]

I am saying that Jesus consistently used nature to teach the spiritual.....growth and maturity are required to bear fruit.....

Except a man ABIDE in the vine Jesus said.....

Not one plant or tree on this planet bears fruit immediately.....they all take growth and maturity....some quicker than others obviously....while we have now been given access to the Spirit by being sealed with the Spirit they are all grown, matured and beough to fruition if you will.

For example...Let Love be PERFECTED in us <-- matured

One thing I think is a disconnect...works are not fruit!

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Yes and we must remember as I was taught, being the daughter of farmers .... that the vine is in the receiving position, it is not in in

the position of feeding the tree.

 

[Duskey]

Does that mean you disagree with those who said I was proud?

I’ve never considered whether or not you’re proud. My focus is on your being deceived and deceitful.

 

[star]

In case anyone needs clarification, this "thread" is about Works do not save." Of course, other stuff has creeped in and for the most part that's okay but as someone suggested, "can we go on from salvation discussion" um no cause that is the gist of the OP.

 

[OneOfHis]

God doesn't need proof to know who He has given a new heart....

If we are made His children and born again, we will hear His voice.

We know He is Lord. This isn't something that is in our power to maintain, it is a gift through His mercy.


I don't find it strange people would come to a thread meant to give glory to Him and miss the whole point.


We live in a world that isn't our home and there is much to be done.... Time is ticking...

There are many who would pervert the love of God and excuse many wicked things as "normal" or "ok" and ignore God's will completely in their lives.... all while professing to be one of His children....


But that doesn't change the gospel.

These people looking for a free ticket to enjoy the world as they please while never knowing Christ... They don't fool God any more than those who would say Lord Lord... have I not done many wonderful works...


When we are made new and no longer enemies, our flesh will remember it's pleasures... temptation is still trying to work its way into our thoughts, but we are no longer in bondage to it... He is with us and ready to deliver us from these things


If you fail you're still His son and come judgement would be covered by the righteousness of Jesus opposed to your own...


There is a huge difference between someone who would submit to Gods righteousness

see themselves as in need of a savior

but stumbles in their weakness

lets say someone who was lgbt understanding how perverted that is before God... understanding the gravity of lust and all the destruction it can bring


but on days they grow lazy
avoid their daily bread

get tempted and opposed to holding a thought captive.... sins in their heart through imagination


that already is adultery in their heart


but they will not be ok with what they allowed to go on and desire righteousness in spirit


opposed to someone who heard of Christ, and would even go so far as to say "God made them that way" and lie about Him in order to live as they want

or actually continue to live entirely without CHASTENING....

This sort doesn't appear to hear His voice ...

Seem from the core to be unchanged...

Same inner man...



(unlike peter who denied Jesus openly...multiple times.... even though he KNEW Jesus... and weeped in his shame and guilt)

 

[jackrosie]

In case anyone needs clarification, this "thread" is about Works do not save." Of course, other stuff has creeped in and for the most part that's okay but as someone suggested, "can we go on from salvation discussion" um no cause that is the gist of the OP.

Salvation is a wonderful gift from God....that we did not work for.

What a wonderful God we serve.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes and we must remember as I was taught, being the daughter of farmers


.... that the vine is in the receiving position, it is not in in the position of feeding the root.

correction ^^^^^

 

[BillG]

Ok..thank you..I am getting a bit overwhelmed at the moment..because I believe I am being fed...God has brought me to a place of starting to understand...and it excites me.

And all of us.

 

[BillG]

I am a for a fresh start.....but please don’t expect me to go along with all of what you teach .....because like you...I also have the Holy Spirit leading me on this thread...and he Is giving me a lot of scripture at the moment.

I will question and challenge what I don’t believe...also I will question...as I’m here to LEARN. Not argue.

Hope you don't mind me saying but we also need to challenge what it is we believe.
That's the learning part.
Basically what we believe is our foundation that's been built on Jesus. Paul addressed the issue concerning this in Corinthians.

And if the foundation is faulty it will be unstable and we will be thrown around like a ship in a storm.

I had to address this about 8 years ago. Boy it was hard, there was an awful lot of stuff that needed to be dug up and new foundations laid.

Nothing harder than a paradigm shift because the minute satan sees that he will do his best to keep you on the lies that we have been taught or believe.

He who is in us is greater than he who is the world.

 

[Lafftur]

Move on from salvation is my whole goal. There is more than salvation in Christ. Let’s stop discussing salvation by all means.

Do you really see that sinning makes all Christians miserable? Really? Don’t you see repetitive sin even here and no misery is detected? There is the theory and there is reality. They aren’t the same.

I actually don’t see that it’s natural for new believers to question their salvation. I cannot recall ever wondering. I think the real salvation experience is so remarkable that the change is a new creature. I do see that merely dry eyed praying a prayer and others pronouncing you “now saved for eternity” might result in uncertainty.

Now I notice you clearly admit we can quench, resist and grieve the Holy Spirit. That is mainly what I also wanted to say. We can do all of these and He is less in our lives if we do. Do you agree ?

Yes, true Christians with a new nature that is now spiritual will be miserable every time they choose to sin.

However, when true Christians follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and deny their flesh, take up their cross and follow Jesus - they will suffer in their flesh but, their spirit and soul will rejoice because they delight to do God's Will and are pleasing in God's sight - it's a great joy!

Sinners that are NOT saved find trying to be good makes them miserable, they're happy just doing their own will and not interested in God at all!

New baby Christians get beat up by Pharisees and legalistic religious folk that judge and condemn them for stumbling over their flesh and not having good works in their life. This is so ridiculous to me - can you imagine telling a new little tomato plant that it CANNOT be a tomato plant because it does not have any visible tomatoes yet!

All the judgmental and critical pointing fingers towards new baby Christians needs to stop. However, older Christians that have been saved for years and know the Bible and are well acquainted with the power of the Holy Spirit - they know better and will be reprimanded more harshly.

The Holy Spirit is never less in our lives - He is a constant companion but, His rivers of living water won't flow abundantly if we are holding on to any sin in our flesh - got to deny our flesh!

 

[BillG]

Do you agree that, in order for one to have the ability to sin, he must have the sin nature in him?

Did Adam and Eve have a sin nature when God breathed life into them?

 

[DorothyMae]

Yes, true Christians with a new nature that is now spiritual will be miserable every time they choose to sin.

However, when true Christians follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and deny their flesh, take up their cross and follow Jesus - they will suffer in their flesh but, their spirit and soul will rejoice because they delight to do God's Will and are pleasing in God's sight - it's a great joy!

Sinners that are NOT saved find trying to be good makes them miserable, they're happy just doing their own will and not interested in God at all!

New baby Christians get beat up by Pharisees and legalistic religious folk that judge and condemn them for stumbling over their flesh and not having good works in their life. This is so ridiculous to me - can you imagine telling a new little tomato plant that it CANNOT be a tomato plant because it does not have any visible tomatoes yet!

All the judgmental and critical pointing fingers towards new baby Christians needs to stop. However, older Christians that have been saved for years and know the Bible and are well acquainted with the power of the Holy Spirit - they know better and will be reprimanded more harshly.

The Holy Spirit is never less in our lives - He is a constant companion but, His rivers of living water won't flow abundantly if we are holding on to any sin in our flesh - got to deny our flesh!

Paul wrote to the Corinthians that they should have been miserable but weren’t. Your theory just isn’t so. If it were true, no NT would have been necessary nor would there ever be quarrels between believers.

So who are the baby christians here. Do you leave them be?