The Second Coming of Christ is for JUDGMENT

[Runningman]

A genocide of Christians is taking place right now in Islamic nations across the Middle East and Africa.
Thousands of Christians are being beheaded, blown up, shot, stabbed, tortured, and imprisoned.
Millions have been tortured and killed in communist gulags. Soviet Russia, Communist China, Cambodia, North Korea. Etc.
The ancient heart of the Middle Eastern churches have been all but wiped out.
The annihilation of the churches named in Revelation 2 & 3 has come to pass.

But some Christians on the periphery of Biblical prophecy cannot accept the idea of a refining process.
They believe themselves to be exempt.

We are told to be prepared. We should be.
We may have to minister under difficult conditions to younger Christians in a crisis of faith because they were never taught endurance as preached by Jeremiah, Daniel, Jesus, Paul, Peter & John.

Because pre-tribulation rapturists convinced them the love of Christ meant a sure escape of the persecution of antichrist.
Not to be questioned.

While what you are saying is a true assessment of the state of affairs, we cannot justify this current point in time as the time known as the The Great Tribulation.

For starters, if you interpret the Bible literally then the anti-Christ will sit in temple of God, Solomon's temple, in Jerusalem. The temple has been destroyed twice meaning that for an anti-Christ to sit there then a third temple would need to be rebuilt which hasn't happened yet.

"3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

But yes, I do also agree with your post-tribulation rapture view point which is Biblical.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's just odd.

Because I just got done saying that the Church which is His body has experienced this ALL THROUGHOUT it existence on the earth, since the first century. We are not awaiting a future 7-yr period to experience it!

There is a future 7-yr period, but it is not slated for *that* purpose. It has another purpose. (We, the Church which is His body, will not be here on the earth for those 7 yrs. But again, we are not awaiting those 7-yrs in order to experience "tribulations and persecutions" and refining... that has taken place all throughout the Church-which-is-His-body's existence on the earth, since the first century, 2Th1:4 is just one example of that, where Paul is acknowledging their PRESENT and ONGOING experience of such... but also discloses the sequence of events pertaining to "the WRATH COMING" which refers, per context, to the wrath coming onto the earth at a certain point in time [yet future], having to do with "an eschatalogical 'salvation' which is the CONTEXT of Paul's Thessalonians epistles [addresses to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"].)

The Church will be present upon earth during the future Great Tribulation.

The future Great Tribulation will be 1,260 days or 42 months long, no place in scripture is 7 years mentioned as you claim.

 

[Kolistus]

But it only means how God is going to gather us, it does not mean a plan to escape something horrible.
I love how we see the very CHOSEN of Christ Himself (Disciples) had to endure torture and for all but one a horrendous death. But somehow, those today believe they get a free escape card over a false doctrine.

Who are WE compared to the Apostles who were brutally beaten, tortured, murdered?

Some actually believe we are more special and will never be made to suffer something like the Tribulation.

The Bible nowhere tells us this. Why would we believe such garbage? Because the preacher said so? Hahahahahahahahaha

This is a common attack against a pre-trib rapture but completely made of straw.

No pre-tribber denies the Church has gone and is going now in parts of the world, immense persecution and they are being slaughtered for their faith.

But the difference between THE tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble and whats happening to us now is that the world and the devil is persecuting Christians now. In the tribulation, it is the Lamb who is unleashing all the seals trumpets and vials. And the pre-trib claim is, to that, we are not appointed to.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Truth7t7 ,

I think you're joking, am I right?

Paul is telling the SEQUENCE, of WHAT happens WHEN in RELATION [time-wise] TO WHAT OTHER thing... in 2Th2.

So the TWO THINGS he is telling about WHAT happens WHEN in RELATION TO the OTHER,
[are] those being "the DOTL [TIME PERIOD of JUDGMENTS unfolding upon the earth]"
and "our Rapture/'THE Departure' [of us, in the Rapture (IN THE AIR)]' " [<--ONE of these happens "*FIRST*"]


In view of this, would you consider a post I just made in a different thread? (Post #767, bottom half of that post - https://christianchat.com/threads/a...ime-among-some-christians.192730/post-4289357 [scroll down to bottom half of that post])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

This is a common attack against a pre-trib rapture but completely made of straw.
No pre-tribber denies the Church has gone and is going now in parts of the world, immense persecution and they are being slaughtered for their faith.
But the difference between THE tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble and whats happening to us now is that the world and the devil is persecuting Christians now. In the tribulation, it is the Lamb who is unleashing all the seals trumpets and vials. And the pre-trib claim is, to that, we are not appointed to.

Amen! Spot on!

 

[Truth7t7]

This is a common attack against a pre-trib rapture but completely made of straw.

No pre-tribber denies the Church has gone and is going now in parts of the world, immense persecution and they are being slaughtered for their faith.

But the difference between THE tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble and whats happening to us now is that the world and the devil is persecuting Christians now. In the tribulation, it is the Lamb who is unleashing all the seals trumpets and vials. And the pre-trib claim is, to that, we are not appointed to.

The plagues in the seal, vials, Trumps, are controlled by the "Two Witnesses" seen in Revelation 11:1-15

The future Great Tribulation is going to be a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt. During this time the Hebrews were protected from the plagues, it's going to be the same for the church during the tribulation.

As clearly seen below, the plagues come upon the beast and His kingdom followers.

Revelation 16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The plagues in the seal, vials, Trumps, are controlled by the "Two Witnesses" seen in Revelation 11:1-15

No.

If you study out the chronology in Revelation [the FUTURE aspects of the Book], we can see that the Two Witnesses' 1260 days STRADDLE the two halves, and correspond only with the "TRUMPETS" (during 6 TRUMPETS of the 7 of them), like this:

l-------[.....2W.....]-------l


The SEALS precede their 1260 days of testimony [when they also do the "plagues" thing, as often as they will],
and the VIALS [plus 7th Trumpet before those] FOLLOW their 1260 days of testimony...

...and of the VIALS (which come in AFTER the 2W have ascended up into Heaven) it is said of those, [re: VIALS] "the SEVEN LAST PLAGUES" and "for IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED" [not, 'IS STARTED']

You need to study out the SEQUENCE of the events in the trib years, better and more carefully, coz your idea of it is skewed and inaccurate.

The future Great Tribulation is going to be a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt. During this time the Hebrews were protected from the plagues, it's going to be the same for the church during the tribulation.
As clearly seen below, the plagues come upon the beast and His kingdom followers.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ note: my "depiction" ^ is "not to scale" (it became even more disproportionate when I applied the BOLD to parts of it. LOL!)

 

[biker]

This is a common attack against a pre-trib rapture but completely made of straw.

No pre-tribber denies the Church has gone and is going now in parts of the world, immense persecution and they are being slaughtered for their faith.

But the difference between THE tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble and whats happening to us now is that the world and the devil is persecuting Christians now. In the tribulation, it is the Lamb who is unleashing all the seals trumpets and vials. And the pre-trib claim is, to that, we are not appointed to.

God's Wrath is Judgement. As in Eternal Suffering. A mass murder of unbelievers in Armageddon is just Christ showing His other side from how He was when He first came. But God's WRATH is Judgement. Tribulation is not Judgement. Armageddon is not Judgement. Eternal Damnation is Judgement and God's Wrath!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Tribulation is not Judgement.

That is incorrect. The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are periods of DIVINE JUDGMENT.

Within the 7th seal judgments, the first six angels announce the judgments during the Tribulation. The seventh angel announces the judgments during the Great Tribulation. Each period consists of 3 1/2 years.

People should really take some time to study these things and see what the Bible has to say.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

God's Wrath is Judgement. As in Eternal Suffering. A mass murder of unbelievers in Armageddon is just Christ showing His other side from how He was when He first came. But God's WRATH is Judgement. Tribulation is not Judgement. Armageddon is not Judgement. Eternal Damnation is Judgement and God's Wrath!

So you think the SPANS of TIME that it takes for the "7 VIALS" to unfold upon the earth, is the "ETERNAL DAMNATION-JUDGMENT" (where it says of the 7 Vials, "for IN THEM the WRATH of God IS COMPLETED" [not 'IS STARTED']) ??

I must disagree.


Besides that, may the readers consider the following post I made some time back, explaining parts of what I believe is also involved:

[quoting that post]

[re: "SEAL #1 (rider of horse) versus Rev19 (Rider of horse)"]

I've posted on this Subject in the past (this will save me some typing, if you don't mind = ) )...

I agree that Rev19 is Jesus.

As far as Rev6, I do not believe the rider of the white horse with a "bow" is Jesus, I believe Jesus is the One OPENING that Seal, from His position IN HEAVEN, and these are the "effects upon the earth" of that opening [of Seal / ... &Seals, as they progress].

[quoting my post from May __th (I think it was) [EDIT: not in this thread], which is really only a brief intro to much more that could be said... and I can try to come back to answer any questions that may arise, from this post]

1) Seal #1 is the equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 (Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' bringing deception, which is oft-times how the word "bow" is used in the OT]']" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of (Olivet Discourse);

...and Rev1:1 is saying that the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book (which INCLUDES "SEAL #1) are "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (<--compare the bolded words with that of 1:19c and 4:1...meaning, the things which come after "the things WHICH ARE" which, by contrast, do not take place "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"...
So, IOW, the SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS will take place within the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period, which comes after "the things WHICH ARE" [<--and which things ('WHICH ARE') are NOT said to come to pass "in quickness," by contrast]);


2) Paul said that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" that the DOTL [time period] will ARRIVE "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" [this is pertaining to when (are) the "LAMPS LIT" for the NIGHT WATCHES ; )

(note: this is done by the "10 Virgins [/Bridesmaids; PLURAL]" NOT "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" ; ) and is associated with the post I'd made about THAT Subject... won't go into that here);

[Note also: the posts I'd made about the "4 living creatures" [Rev4-5] having the SAME descriptions as the 4-directional plotment of Israel (in the OT times). ; ) ... (EDIT to add: so this pertains in some measure as to the "PURPOSE" of the opening of the SEALS--i.e. earthly-governmental-related)]


3) Also, in Rev5, Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, [and I believe parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4...

...IOW, "the enemy" is His rod/tool/instrument "of My anger" like Isa10:5,6 says, and like this Lam2:3-4 (amidst "WRATH" words) says "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy"... (comp. 2Th2:7b-8a)...

...(i.e. lifting His RESTRAINT and letting 'im at 'em! [like, opening SEAL #1]), and like Hab1:12b says "thou hast ordained them [the Babylonians, v.6] for/as judgment; and...hast established them [the Babylonians, v.6] for correction" (note the connection btwn "Neb" as "head of gold" and the far-future "ten toes" of the same "dream/statue/image"--this being what the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is referring to, distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]"])]


That's all I'll post for now... but I hope you can see just a small part of why I see it as I do. = )

[end quoting that post]

 

[Truth7t7]

No.

If you study out the chronology in Revelation [the FUTURE aspects of the Book], we can see that the Two Witnesses' 1260 days STRADDLE the two halves, and correspond only with the "TRUMPETS" (during 6 TRUMPETS of the 7 of them), like this:

l-------[.....2W.....]-------l


The SEALS precede their 1260 days of testimony [when they also do the "plagues" thing, as often as they will],
and the VIALS [plus 7th Trumpet before those] FOLLOW their 1260 days of testimony...

...and of the VIALS (which come in AFTER the 2W have ascended up into Heaven) it is said of those, [re: VIALS] "the SEVEN LAST PLAGUES" and "for IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED" [not, 'IS STARTED']

You need to study out the SEQUENCE of the events in the trib years, better and more carefully, coz your idea of it is skewed and inaccurate.

Revelation 11:3 & Revelation 13:5 are "Parallel" events in the same time frame, 1260 days, 42 months.

The "Two Witnesses" will be present on earth the entire time (The Beast) is given authority.

The book of Revelation is written in "Parallel" teachings of same events and time frames.

Dispensationalism "Falsely Teaches" the book of Revelation is in chronological order, "A Lie"!

(Exact Same Time Frame Seen In Parallel)

Revelation 11:3KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 

[Truth7t7]

So you think the SPANS of TIME that it takes for the "7 VIALS" to unfold upon the earth, is the "ETERNAL DAMNATION-JUDGMENT" (where it says of the 7 Vials, "for IN THEM the WRATH of God IS COMPLETED" [not 'IS STARTED']) ??

I must disagree.


Besides that, may the readers consider the following post I made some time back, explaining parts of what I believe is also involved:

[quoting that post]

[re: "SEAL #1 (rider of horse) versus Rev19 (Rider of horse)"]

I've posted on this Subject in the past (this will save me some typing, if you don't mind = ) )...

I agree that Rev19 is Jesus.

As far as Rev6, I do not believe the rider of the white horse with a "bow" is Jesus, I believe Jesus is the One OPENING that Seal, from His position IN HEAVEN, and these are the "effects upon the earth" of that opening [of Seal / ... &Seals, as they progress].

[quoting my post from May __th (I think it was) [EDIT: not in this thread], which is really only a brief intro to much more that could be said... and I can try to come back to answer any questions that may arise, from this post]

1) Seal #1 is the equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 (Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' bringing deception, which is oft-times how the word "bow" is used in the OT]']" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of (Olivet Discourse);

...and Rev1:1 is saying that the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book (which INCLUDES "SEAL #1) are "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (<--compare the bolded words with that of 1:19c and 4:1...meaning, the things which come after "the things WHICH ARE" which, by contrast, do not take place "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"...
So, IOW, the SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS will take place within the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period, which comes after "the things WHICH ARE" [<--and which things ('WHICH ARE') are NOT said to come to pass "in quickness," by contrast]);


2) Paul said that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" that the DOTL [time period] will ARRIVE "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" [this is pertaining to when (are) the "LAMPS LIT" for the NIGHT WATCHES ; )

(note: this is done by the "10 Virgins [/Bridesmaids; PLURAL]" NOT "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" ; ) and is associated with the post I'd made about THAT Subject... won't go into that here);

[Note also: the posts I'd made about the "4 living creatures" [Rev4-5] having the SAME descriptions as the 4-directional plotment of Israel (in the OT times). ; ) ... (EDIT to add: so this pertains in some measure as to the "PURPOSE" of the opening of the SEALS--i.e. earthly-governmental-related)]


3) Also, in Rev5, Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, [and I believe parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4...

...IOW, "the enemy" is His rod/tool/instrument "of My anger" like Isa10:5,6 says, and like this Lam2:3-4 (amidst "WRATH" words) says "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy"... (comp. 2Th2:7b-8a)...

...(i.e. lifting His RESTRAINT and letting 'im at 'em! [like, opening SEAL #1]), and like Hab1:12b says "thou hast ordained them [the Babylonians, v.6] for/as judgment; and...hast established them [the Babylonians, v.6] for correction" (note the connection btwn "Neb" as "head of gold" and the far-future "ten toes" of the same "dream/statue/image"--this being what the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is referring to, distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]"])]


That's all I'll post for now... but I hope you can see just a small part of why I see it as I do. = )

[end quoting that post]

Once again, your posting is "Confusing" with large & small print, colors, and underline.

Also it's size would be considered a Novel, break it down to 1-2 paragraphs, make it readable, not mass "Confusion"

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Once again, your posting is "Confusing" with large & small print, colors, and underline.

That's why I put "numbered bullet points" to make it easier to follow the train of thought.

Also it's size would be considered a Novel, break it down to 1-2 paragraphs, make it readable, not mass "Confusion"

...will try again, the streamlined version... = )


____________

[repeat post]

[re: "SEAL #1 (rider of horse) versus Rev19 (Rider of horse)"]

I've posted on this Subject in the past (this will save me some typing, if you don't mind = ) )...
I agree that Rev19 is Jesus.

As far as Rev6, I do not believe the rider of the white horse with a "bow" is Jesus, I believe Jesus is the One OPENING that Seal, from His position IN HEAVEN, and these are the "effects upon the earth" of that opening [of Seal / ... &Seals, as they progress].
[...<snip>...]

1) Seal #1 is the equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 (Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' bringing deception, which is oft-times how the word "bow" is used in the OT]']" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of (Olivet Discourse);

...and Rev1:1 is saying that the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book (which INCLUDES "SEAL #1) are "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (<--compare the bolded words with that of 1:19c and 4:1...meaning, the things which come after "the things WHICH ARE" which, by contrast, do not take place "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"...
So, IOW, the SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS will take place within the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period, which comes after "the things WHICH ARE" [<--and which things ('WHICH ARE') are NOT said to come to pass "in quickness," by contrast]);


2) Paul said that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" that the DOTL [time period] will ARRIVE "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" [this is pertaining to when (are) the "LAMPS LIT" for the NIGHT WATCHES ; )
(note: this is done by the "10 Virgins [/Bridesmaids; PLURAL]" NOT "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" ; ) and is associated with the post I'd made about THAT Subject... won't go into that here);

[Note also: the posts I'd made about the "4 living creatures" [Rev4-5] having the SAME descriptions as the 4-directional plotment of Israel (in the OT times). ; ) ... (EDIT to add: so this pertains in some measure as to the "PURPOSE" of the opening of the SEALS--i.e. earthly-governmental-related)]



3) Also, in Rev5, Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, [and I believe parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4...
...IOW, "the enemy" is His rod/tool/instrument "of My anger" like Isa10:5,6 says, and like this Lam2:3-4 (amidst "WRATH" words) says "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy"... (comp. 2Th2:7b-8a)...

...(i.e. lifting His RESTRAINT and letting 'im at 'em! [like, opening SEAL #1]), and like Hab1:12b says "thou hast ordained them [the Babylonians, v.6] for/as judgment; and...hast established them [the Babylonians, v.6] for correction" (note the connection btwn "Neb" as "head of gold" and the far-future "ten toes" of the same "dream/statue/image"--this being what the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is referring to, distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]"])]

[end quoting that post]



____________

Is THREE SECTIONS too much?

It's not true that "the tribulation period" is not "judgment" and not "wrath"


[there was "wrath" in the "70ad events," per the Lk21:12-24 section of the Olivet Discourse... and it took place in a particular place on the earth, surrounding 70ad, see ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Revelation 11:3 & Revelation 13:5 are "Parallel" events in the same time frame, 1260 days, 42 months.

True that 11:3 = [same time period] as 13:5 (i.e. the second HALF of the 7-yr period, aka "the GREAT tribulation");


But... the Two Witnesses are resurrected and ascend at the "6th Trumpet[events]/2nd Woe" whereas the MID-point of the 7-yrs is back at the "5th Trumpet/1st Woe unto the earth" Rev8:13/Rev12:12/Rev9:1... so the 2W's "1260 days of testimony" is NEARING an END at the time of the MID-TRIB point [5th Trumpet], and have only yet the "6th Trumpet" remaining in their "time-slot"(--so they overlap).

Only from the "5th Trumpet" onward, is the SECOND HALF, which is the duration of time mentioned in both 11:3 and 13:5 [the SECOND half of the two halves--but the 2W's 1260 days STRADDLES these two halves, based on what I've pointed out]

 

[Truth7t7]

That's why I put "numbered bullet points" to make it easier to follow the train of thought.



...will try again, the streamlined version... = )


____________

[repeat post]

[re: "SEAL #1 (rider of horse) versus Rev19 (Rider of horse)"]

I've posted on this Subject in the past (this will save me some typing, if you don't mind = ) )...
I agree that Rev19 is Jesus.

As far as Rev6, I do not believe the rider of the white horse with a "bow" is Jesus, I believe Jesus is the One OPENING that Seal, from His position IN HEAVEN, and these are the "effects upon the earth" of that opening [of Seal / ... &Seals, as they progress].
[...<snip>...]

1) Seal #1 is the equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 (Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' bringing deception, which is oft-times how the word "bow" is used in the OT]']" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of (Olivet Discourse);

...and Rev1:1 is saying that the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book (which INCLUDES "SEAL #1) are "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (<--compare the bolded words with that of 1:19c and 4:1...meaning, the things which come after "the things WHICH ARE" which, by contrast, do not take place "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"...
So, IOW, the SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS will take place within the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period, which comes after "the things WHICH ARE" [<--and which things ('WHICH ARE') are NOT said to come to pass "in quickness," by contrast]);


2) Paul said that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" that the DOTL [time period] will ARRIVE "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" [this is pertaining to when (are) the "LAMPS LIT" for the NIGHT WATCHES ; )
(note: this is done by the "10 Virgins [/Bridesmaids; PLURAL]" NOT "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" ; ) and is associated with the post I'd made about THAT Subject... won't go into that here);

[Note also: the posts I'd made about the "4 living creatures" [Rev4-5] having the SAME descriptions as the 4-directional plotment of Israel (in the OT times). ; ) ... (EDIT to add: so this pertains in some measure as to the "PURPOSE" of the opening of the SEALS--i.e. earthly-governmental-related)]



3) Also, in Rev5, Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, [and I believe parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4...
...IOW, "the enemy" is His rod/tool/instrument "of My anger" like Isa10:5,6 says, and like this Lam2:3-4 (amidst "WRATH" words) says "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy"... (comp. 2Th2:7b-8a)...

...(i.e. lifting His RESTRAINT and letting 'im at 'em! [like, opening SEAL #1]), and like Hab1:12b says "thou hast ordained them [the Babylonians, v.6] for/as judgment; and...hast established them [the Babylonians, v.6] for correction" (note the connection btwn "Neb" as "head of gold" and the far-future "ten toes" of the same "dream/statue/image"--this being what the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" is referring to, distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]"])]

[end quoting that post]



____________

Is THREE SECTIONS too much?

It's not true that "the tribulation period" is not "judgment" and not "wrath"


[there was "wrath" in the "70ad events," per the Lk21:12-24 section of the Olivet Discourse... and it took place in a particular place on the earth, surrounding 70ad, see ]

Tooooooooo long 1-2 paragraphs please.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^

Tooooooooo long 1-2 paragraphs please.

Can you read only the two paragraphs under Point 3 of my previous post ?


If so, start there. = )


This part:
[quoting]
3) Also, in Rev5, Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, [and I believe parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4...
...IOW, "the enemy" is His rod/tool/instrument "of My anger" like Isa10:5,6 says, and like this Lam2:3-4 (amidst "WRATH" words) says "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy"... (comp. 2Th2:7b-8a)...

...(i.e. lifting His RESTRAINT and letting 'im at 'em! [like, opening SEAL #1]), and like Hab1:12b says "thou hast ordained them [the Babylonians, v.6] for/as judgment; and...hast established them [the Babylonians, v.6] for correction"

 

[Truth7t7]

True that 11:3 = [same time period] as 13:5 (i.e. the second HALF of the 7-yr period, aka "the GREAT tribulation");


But... the Two Witnesses are resurrected and ascend at the "6th Trumpet[events]/2nd Woe" whereas the MID-point of the 7-yrs is back at the "5th Trumpet/1st Woe unto the earth" Rev8:13/Rev12:12/Rev9:1... so the 2W's "1260 days of testimony" is NEARING an END at the time of the MID-TRIB point [5th Trumpet], and have only yet the "6th Trumpet" remaining in their "time-slot"(--so they overlap).

Only from the "5th Trumpet" onward, is the SECOND HALF, which is the duration of time mentioned in both 11:3 and 13:5 [the SECOND half of the two halves--but the 2W's 1260 days STRADDLES these two halves, based on what I've pointed out]

You continue to "Falsely" claim a 7 year tribulation.

The 3.5year, 42 month, or 1260 day tribulation "Starts" at the revealing of the future (Antichrist/The Beast) the "Two Witnesses" will be present to the "Final Four Day's" of earths existence.

3.5 days the "Two Witnesses" lay dead, and then the final hours of earths existence is seen, as Rev 11:15 is the second coming, and end of this world 2 Peter 3:10-13

Revelation 11:7-15KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You continue to "Falsely" claim a 7 year tribulation.

Because you didn't bother to read my posts, you have MISSED where I showed (for starters):

--the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" (that both Jesus AND Paul refer to) IS the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" time-period (i.e. SEAL #1), with MANY MORE "birth PANGS [plural]" which follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG"...

MUCH TIME [the entire 7-yr trib] follows that point, as we see in several places in Scripture, including Jesus' Olivet Discourse.



[SEAL #1 = the INITIAL "birth PANG" (of many more "birth PANGS") and that INITIAL "birth PANG" = the "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia]" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME"... not the part where "he SITTETH" later in the trib! (same BEGINNING, and MIDDLE, and END that we see in several places, not to mention Dan9:27 a / b / c ! "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]" it says )]

 

[Truth7t7]

Because you didn't bother to read my posts, you have MISSED where I showed (for starters):

--the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" (that both Jesus AND Paul refer to) IS the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" time-period (i.e. SEAL #1), with MANY MORE "birth PANGS [plural]" which follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG"...

MUCH TIME [the entire 7-yr trib] follows that point, as we see in several places in Scripture, including Jesus' Olivet Discourse.



[SEAL #1 = the INITIAL "birth PANG" (of many more "birth PANGS") and that INITIAL "birth PANG" = the "whose COMING/ADVENT/ARRIVAL/PRESENCE/parousia]" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME"... not the part where "he SITTETH" later in the trib! (same BEGINNING, and MIDDLE, and END that we see in several places, not to mention Dan9:27 a / b / c ! "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]" it says )]

I strongly disagree with your claim of a 7 year tribulation presented.

Your first 3.5 years isnt seen or referenced in the scripture, simply the invention of man.

The 3.5 year, 42 month, or 1260 day tribulation "Starts" at the revealing of the future (Antichrist/The Beast) the "Two Witnesses" will be present to the "Final Four Day's" of earths existence, as seen in Revelation 11:7-15

We will disagree