The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

[KelbyofGod]

So you are saying no speaking in tongues, no Holy Spirit correct?

I decided to re-read the guidelines for the BDF before answering your question to be sure that answering your question would not be construed as a personal attack, and that I can support my position with biblical examples.

Because "no speaking in tongues, no Holy Spirit" seems to be the criteria used in Acts 19, 10, 8 (and actually 2), Yes, I use the same criteria today. If I find believers, I ask them if they have received the Holy Ghost since they believed, because according to the book of acts, it is not only possible, it is recorded that people could both believe and be baptized and yet NOT HAVE the Holy Ghost. And I continue to pray for them until the either get it or die. (just meaning I don't stop praying for them if they're still alive. ) It's just that believers who have yet to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost are either told that they don't need it, or sometimes are overly pressured to receive it....few are taught "Tarry until you receive it". So I try to teach them to Tarry/wait and not give up.

The baptism of the Holy Ghost came with speaking in tongues in the book of Acts and it still does today. Again, because God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. There is only one thing biblically declared as "my spirit prayeth" and that is speaking in tongues. "If I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth". People are able to claim all sorts of other things to be spirit-prayer, but speaking in tongues is the only one with a bible statement to back it up. So I'm trusting the bible over man.

BTW, I seldom try to apply the word "saved" to people because that particular part is between them and God, not them and me per Philipians 2:12. So if someone wants to call themselves "saved" I basically just say "That's nice" and probably will ask them about the Holy Ghost and correct baptism (Like Paul did in Acts 19). But I don't see the need to argue over whether or not they call themselves "saved".

I hope that (especially the bold part) was clear enough to answer your question, and thorough enough for anyone who wants to know more.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

oops. I see that one of my earlier drafts was accidentally at the top of a message to @Trula

 

[KelbyofGod]

So, I guess that in keeping with the OP of this thread....One benefit of speaking in tongues is that it is a clear indicator that a person has received the Holy Ghost. (See Acts 2:4 , Acts 10:44-45, Acts 19:6)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Guojing]

I believe the Scripture tells us our duty is to go, preach the Gospel of salvation, and teach them all things.
We are to be meek and humble as we presents Jesus and not ourselves.
I have never seen the value nor the need in uttering tongues that neither I or those I am speaking with do not understand.
Neither have I seen the value of calling attention to my self as I worship. How is that being meek and humble?
It is never about me or you. If people can not see Jesus and understand every word we speak, that what is the value?

There is an obvious practical reason why continualists, those who believe in signs today, focus almost exclusively on tongues.

If you focus on prophecies, they may not come true.

If you focus on healing, the healing often don't happen immediately, or at all.

But if you focus on tongues, no one can really verify whether the utterances really came from God. It becomes largely placebo.

 

[garee]

Evidence naturally follows.

Evidence is a good thing

The evidence of Isaiah 28?

The law of faith must be applied. We walk by the unseen eternal not after the temporal things seen . Making a senseless sound and falling back is not the gospel . Dead, slain in the spirit idea and raptured by the spirit like a Phoenix is not a biblical teaching according to the law in Isaiah 28 . For who hopes for what they do see?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith (Christ's working in us)) is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The proper prescription must be applied if we are to come under the law of faith. We are not to literalize the unseen spiritual application .The cause of the fall.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Yes, inward unseen evidence that a person has been filled . The Holy Spirit does not leak out and need to filled over and over.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

New tongues; the gospel prophecy. the kind that comes out with prayer and fasting. Which is bringing the gospel with words easy to understand when yoked with Christ.

Not what some call "sign gift" but rather spirutl gift .(Can't see a spirit) . the Bible does not use those two words as something we are to seek after .No such thing as a self edifying gift.

 

[garee]

So, I guess that in keeping with the OP of this thread....One benefit of speaking in tongues is that it is a clear indicator that a person has received the Holy Ghost. (See Acts 2:4 , Acts 10:44-45, Acts 19:6)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

That is clear but what is not to some is. Is the tongue of God "prophecy " or a oral tradition of men?

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

According to the "law of faith" tongues must be prophecy. Or we would go to a meeting expecting the tower of babble confusion and disorder.

 

[KelbyofGod]

There is an obvious practical reason why continualists, those who believe in signs today, focus almost exclusively on tongues.

If you focus on prophecies, they may not come true.

If you focus on healing, the healing often don't happen immediately, or at all.

But if you focus on tongues, no one can really verify whether the utterances really came from God. It becomes largely placebo.

This quote seems to have a lot of bearing on your statements:
"We see the world, not as it is, but as we are – or, as we are conditioned to see it. When we open our mouths to describe what we see, we in effect describe ourselves, our perceptions, our paradigms.”— Stephen R. Covey

I noticed that you used the word "signs" as if that is the important part.

I personally don't see "signs" as the most important aspect of any gift of the Spirit and I'm curious as to why you refer to gifts of the Spirit as "signs". Would you care to elaborate?

Also, it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that this particular thread highlights the benefits of speaking in tongues considering that's the title of the thread.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Guojing]

This quote seems to have a lot of bearing on your statements:
"We see the world, not as it is, but as we are – or, as we are conditioned to see it. When we open our mouths to describe what we see, we in effect describe ourselves, our perceptions, our paradigms.”— Stephen R. Covey

I noticed that you used the word "signs" as if that is the important part.

I personally don't see "signs" as the most important aspect of any gift of the Spirit and I'm curious as to why you refer to gifts of the Spirit as "signs". Would you care to elaborate?

Also, it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that this particular thread highlights the benefits of speaking in tongues considering that's the title of the thread.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

In that 1 cor chapter, Paul said clearly that tongues are a sign to the unbelievers. My claim is based on that verse.

It’s like healing, they also serve as signs but of course, that does not mean there are no other benefits. It clearly benefits the one being healed, for example.

 

[garee]

There is an obvious practical reason why continualists, those who believe in signs today, focus almost exclusively on tongues.

If you focus on prophecies, they may not come true.

If you focus on healing, the healing often don't happen immediately, or at all.

But if you focus on tongues, no one can really verify whether the utterances really came from God. It becomes largely placebo.

I would not call them continualists. Those who continue in the tongue of God prophecy .Walk by faith after spiritual "unseen gifts". No such thing a "sign gift" . Christ is our living hope. For who hopes for something they already have. Again, again, and again over and over?

Wrong kind of continualists continuing in the things seen self edifying

 

[KelbyofGod]

That is clear but what is not to some is. Is the tongue of God "prophecy " or a oral tradition of men?

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

According to the "law of faith" tongues must be prophecy. Or we would go to a meeting expecting the tower of babble confusion and disorder.

Hi Garee,
I take pleasure in answering your post because you come across as someone who is actually interested in truth.

I see why you have the idea that prophecy is "the tongue of God" because true prophecy is God speaking, not man.

I also understand why you think that the babbly kind of tongues could be a punishment rather than a gift from God because it sounds like a weird thing. And this isn't a point of argument but I have the babbly kind of tongues and I'm not ashamed to share that it does indeed provide all the benefits promised. I can't prove it any more than I can prove how vanilla ice cream tastes, but I can encourage you to "taste and see that the Lord is good" regarding the babbly kind of tongues we are talking about in this post.

If you could limit your posts to one question at a time I'd be glad to share what I know.

Meanwhile it's nice to have you here and I hope you continue to read and spend time talking with God.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[garee]

This quote seems to have a lot of bearing on your statements:
"We see the world, not as it is, but as we are – or, as we are conditioned to see it. When we open our mouths to describe what we see, we in effect describe ourselves, our perceptions, our paradigms.”— Stephen R. Covey

I noticed that you used the word "signs" as if that is the important part.

I personally don't see "signs" as the most important aspect of any gift of the Spirit and I'm curious as to why you refer to gifts of the Spirit as "signs". Would you care to elaborate?

Also, it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that this particular thread highlights the benefits of speaking in tongues considering that's the title of the thread.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yes in that way without parables Christ spoke not. We must apply the law of faith seeing without parables Christ spoke not. In order to seek the spiritual understanding of parable .The prescription must be applied or we simply take the worlds view walking by sight after the temporal . Literalizing faith

I would think as part of our armor we should put on the 20/20 prescription needed to rightly divide the parable .

Don't wait until 2021. LOL

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[KelbyofGod]

In that 1 cor chapter, Paul said clearly that tongues are a sign to the unbelievers. My claim is based on that verse.

It’s like healing, they also serve as signs but of course, that does not mean there are no other benefits. It clearly benefits the one being healed, for example.

Agreed. Of course a healing might be a sign to someone but I certainly appreciate the direct value of a (needed and received) healing.

The same true of speaking in tongues. It is (according to the word of God) a sign to others, specifically to unbelievers. But what I appreciate more directly are the benefits to the believer (myself) when speaking in tongues.

Paul said that "the spirit itself makes intercession for us" and "helps our infirmities, according to God". That is a major benefit. When i don't know what to pray regarding any topic, I can just pray in tongues and "he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit". That is kinda awesome.

Another benefit is the "edifying" that is promised to the speaker as he/she/I pray in tongues. That's a real thing and it works with the other benefit i mentioned. (Helping our infirmities).

To me it doesn't matter that I don't know exactly how he brings all this about, but I'm glad it works. And thats why I talk about it.

I also talk about healings, miracles, prophesyings, etc. As well as how to get answers to prayer because all of those are real and important. But speaking in tongues does something the others don't. It's that difference that causes people to talk about tongues so much, not the "sign" aspect or the non-provable-that-its-from-God aspect. We talk about it because it can build up the individual just like prophecy can build up a group...but it can be done ALONE, which is really handy when you're by yourself (like in prayer).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Yes in that way without parables Christ spoke not. We must apply the law of faith seeing without parables Christ spoke not. In order to seek the spiritual understanding of parable .The prescription must be applied or we simply take the worlds view walking by sight after the temporal . Literalizing faith

I would think as part of our armor we should put on the 20/20 prescription needed to rightly divide the parable .

Don't wait until 2021. LOL
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Yep. Not good to wait for 2021 vision

Do remember that Jesus only spoke to the multitude in parables. He is willing to talk openly with his disciples.


"And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:" - Mark 4:11 KJV

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[garee]

Yep. Not good to wait for 2021 vision

Do remember that Jesus only spoke to the multitude in parables. He is willing to talk openly with his disciples.


"And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:" - Mark 4:11 KJV

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Amen, the spiritual understanding (gospel) is hid from natural man . I think the whole purpose was to teach us how to walk by faith the unseen eternal.

Good lesson in on how to walk after the unseen eternal is found in Mark 9 and Luke 9.

Four times he spoke a parable and hid the meaning each time hoping they would walk by faith and not by sight after the temporal The second time it would seem the apostles gave up on Jesus and looked for one in who they could understanding. Who is the Alfa dog lol . At the end he rebuked them revealing to them that they knew not what manner (walking by sight ) they we of

Note... amazement, wonderment, marveling is not believing prophecy

Jesus Talks About His Death
The people were still amazed about all the things Jesus did. He said to his followers, “Don’t forget what I will tell you now: The Son of Man will soon be handed over to the control of other men.” But the followers did not understand what he meant. The meaning was hidden from them so that they could not understand it. But they were afraid to ask Jesus about what he said.

Who Is the Greatest?

Jesus’ followers began to have an argument about which one of them was the greatest. Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he took a little child and stood the child beside him. Then he said to the followers, “Whoever accepts a little child like this in my name is accepting me. And anyone who accepts me is also accepting the one who sent me. The one among you who is the most humble—this is the one who is great.”

Whoever Is Not Against You Is for You
John answered, “Master, we saw someone using your name to force demons out of people. We told him to stop because he does not belong to our group.” Jesus said to him, “Don’t stop him. Whoever is not against you is for you.”

A Samaritan Town

The time was coming near when Jesus would leave and go back to heaven. He decided to go to Jerusalem. He sent some men ahead of him. They went into a town in Samaria to make everything ready for him. But the people there would not welcome Jesus because he was going toward Jerusalem. James and John, the followers of Jesus, saw this. They said, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven and destroy those people?” But Jesus turned and criticized them for saying this. Then he and his followers went to another town. Luke 9:44-57 EVS

 

[DWR]

I understand your questions. However if we are being humble before the Lord and before the Word of God we will want to know why God chose to give the gift of tongues, what was the benefit, certainly there is one, it is called a gift not a curse. What was God doing why is it in the bible and what does it mean for me. If we say "I do not see the value in the gift of tongues that you gave to people in the bible, God" won't we feel a little tinge of guilt? Maybe we should say "God I am sure you had a reason, everything you do is Good and perfect, please show me the reason" And then we study until we understand the scriptures and see what God intended. Amen?

I fully understand why the gift of tongues was given in Acts. It served its purpose well.
But what I see today is that those who say they have the gift are not using it in the same manner nor for the same purpose so that is why I say I see no value in it today.
I do not need the gift of tongues when witness to others, I have the Bible and we speak the same language.
I will also say that I so not need the gift of tongues to know without a doubt that His Spirit is present with my spirit.
I do not need a physical outward sign to know that He is there.
So , no I do not feel any guilt as you suggest.
I am not here to mock or offend any of you, but at the same time I object to those that suggest that because my belief is different that I am in some way less spiritual, less useful in the Lord's service or even as some have suggested, do not possess the Holy Spirit.

There is a local preacher I have had this discussion with several times and each time we end our discussion, his last word to me is
"I am praying for your salvation."
He is certain I am not saved because I do not speak in tongues.

 

[Scribe]

I fully understand why the gift of tongues was given in Acts. It served its purpose well.
But what I see today is that those who say they have the gift are not using it in the same manner nor for the same purpose so that is why I say I see no value in it today.
I do not need the gift of tongues when witness to others, I have the Bible and we speak the same language.
I will also say that I so not need the gift of tongues to know without a doubt that His Spirit is present with my spirit.
I do not need a physical outward sign to know that He is there.
So , no I do not feel any guilt as you suggest.
I am not here to mock or offend any of you, but at the same time I object to those that suggest that because my belief is different that I am in some way less spiritual, less useful in the Lord's service or even as some have suggested, do not possess the Holy Spirit.

There is a local preacher I have had this discussion with several times and each time we end our discussion, his last word to me is
"I am praying for your salvation."
He is certain I am not saved because I do not speak in tongues.

It is false doctrine to tell someone they must speak in tongues to be saved.

The gift of tongues was not given for witnessing to others.
The Gift of tongues was not given to prove that His Spirit is present with your spirit
The gift of tongues was not given as a physical outward sigh to know that He is there

The gift of tongues was given for a reason and that reason is worth embracing because it is God's reason.

 

[DWR]

It is false doctrine to tell someone they must speak in tongues to be saved.

The gift of tongues was not given for witnessing to others.
The Gift of tongues was not given to prove that His Spirit is present with your spirit
The gift of tongues was not given as a physical outward sigh to know that He is there

The gift of tongues was given for a reason and that reason is worth embracing because it is God's reason.

What was the purpose for the gift of tongues to those in the upper room?

 

[Absolutely]

Sorry if I misunderstood but what do you mean by evidence naturally follows.
Are you saying that evidence is speaking in tongues?
So if a person does not speak in tongues, what is that evidence of?

"These signs" shall follow = evidence.

A changed life is also evidence

 

[Absolutely]

What was the purpose for the gift of tongues to those in the upper room?

Tongues followed the infilling of the Holy Spirit..

The purpose of the infilling has tongues accompanying it.
After that tongues plays diverse roles.

One dimension of praying in tongues is that
1) the Holy Spirit is praying perfectly through me
2) the devil is clueless as to what is happening.

 

[Absolutely]

I fully understand why the gift of tongues was given in Acts. It served its purpose well.
But what I see today is that those who say they have the gift are not using it in the same manner nor for the same purpose so that is why I say I see no value in it today.
I do not need the gift of tongues when witness to others, I have the Bible and we speak the same language.
I will also say that I so not need the gift of tongues to know without a doubt that His Spirit is present with my spirit.
I do not need a physical outward sign to know that He is there.
So , no I do not feel any guilt as you suggest.
I am not here to mock or offend any of you, but at the same time I object to those that suggest that because my belief is different that I am in some way less spiritual, less useful in the Lord's service or even as some have suggested, do not possess the Holy Spirit.

There is a local preacher I have had this discussion with several times and each time we end our discussion, his last word to me is
"I am praying for your salvation."
He is certain I am not saved because I do not speak in tongues.

That preacher should be shown in acts the 2 are separate.
Salvation vs infilling/ tongues.
Not one and the same.
He is putting condemnation on you.
Look in acts and see it is 2 different concepts.