Doomed to be single?

[cv5]

So besides (we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say) clarifying what you meant in a way that changed it's meaning for most of us. We really should be asking why there's no marriage ceremony recorded between christians in the Bible. Shouldn't be too hard to ascertain that it wasn't from any prohibition or necessarily avoidance of marriage so much as 1) there's literally only 1 narrative book in the NT after the gospels (and there weren't really any christians before those events took place) and it was focused on the story of people who were travelling and spreading the faith. 2) During the time the Bible was written most people would have been coming to Christ as already married (hence all the teaching about how to behave in marriage even though we don't see weddings happening. 3) Christianity was designed (by God at least) to be a multinational multicultural religion and wedding ceremonies are highly cultural events that are determined in large part by the culture of the participants rather than their religion (which yes is a part of culture, but it's unlikely that any of the Biblical authors were concerned with defining what a "Christian Wedding" should look like).

So you're just reiterating Paul's advice which either you followed and after 56 years of singleness you were no longer capapble of self control or you didn't follow at all which would make you look like a hypocrite. Of course you say that but your attitude towards children doesn't seem to be very biblical either (which I admit I wouldn't want to start raising babies at 56+ either) . But the Bible says children are a heritage and blessing from the Lord. Mostly you sound like someone trying to read the Bible in such a way as to make it agree with his life choices... which makes you a pretty normal human being.

Not at all. The New Testament makes it clear that there is no commandment to marry, nor is there any commandment preventing marriage. Choice is up to the individual. However Paul warns that you are probably better off to remain single as you will be more serviceable in the ministry, and not suffer in the flesh, which suffering could be made worse under terrible tribulation.

And that's about it. The bottom line is you absolutely do not have to have to be married as a Christian, nor should there be any prejudice about the choice one way or the other.

 

[cv5]

So besides (we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say) clarifying what you meant in a way that changed it's meaning for most of us. We really should be asking why there's no marriage ceremony recorded between christians in the Bible. Shouldn't be too hard to ascertain that it wasn't from any prohibition or necessarily avoidance of marriage so much as 1) there's literally only 1 narrative book in the NT after the gospels (and there weren't really any christians before those events took place) and it was focused on the story of people who were travelling and spreading the faith. 2) During the time the Bible was written most people would have been coming to Christ as already married (hence all the teaching about how to behave in marriage even though we don't see weddings happening. 3) Christianity was designed (by God at least) to be a multinational multicultural religion and wedding ceremonies are highly cultural events that are determined in large part by the culture of the participants rather than their religion (which yes is a part of culture, but it's unlikely that any of the Biblical authors were concerned with defining what a "Christian Wedding" should look like).

So you're just reiterating Paul's advice which either you followed and after 56 years of singleness you were no longer capapble of self control or you didn't follow at all which would make you look like a hypocrite. Of course you say that but your attitude towards children doesn't seem to be very biblical either (which I admit I wouldn't want to start raising babies at 56+ either) . But the Bible says children are a heritage and blessing from the Lord. Mostly you sound like someone trying to read the Bible in such a way as to make it agree with his life choices... which makes you a pretty normal human being.

BTW, neither myself nor my wife have children because we both understand and believe that the great tribulation is right around the corner. The world right now is on the bitter precipice of total economic collapse, and we have pushbutton weapons of mass destruction. That is too much of a burden for me to place on any child.

Here is a interesting link that should give you a frame of reference regarding the timing of this event. This is the season IMO, But of course we do not know the day or the hour.

http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/HIStoryOurFuture/Ezekiels430Days.html

 

[Lanolin]

i know working with children they find it very difficult when their parents marriages fail and even when they do not and they are together they dont like it when their parents are fighting or hostile to each other.
Children always feel a bit responsible when their parents are at each others throats but there is nothing much they can really do about it.

they can either endure it or run away, many actually choose the run away option.

Just my observations. Very few that I've spoken to actually want to be married. I am always abit curious of the reasons why people want to be married. it is very seldom for the reasons you might think.

 

[cv5]

i know working with children they find it very difficult when their parents marriages fail and even when they do not and they are together they dont like it when their parents are fighting or hostile to each other.
Children always feel a bit responsible when their parents are at each others throats but there is nothing much they can really do about it.

they can either endure it or run away, many actually choose the run away option.

Just my observations. Very few that I've spoken to actually want to be married. I am always abit curious of the reasons why people want to be married. it is very seldom for the reasons you might think.

I really don't have any desire for this fallen world. Waaaay too many tears trials and human misery. Wantonly killing each other by the millions? Sorry...I am not allowing my children to experience that let alone observe it. People think we are good. We aren't. And Jesus says so and often.

 

[Scribe]

True enough. Marriage ceremonies were of the highest importance and priority in the Jewish social order. Marriages and wedding ceremonies are not even a footnote in the Bible as far as Christians are concerned. There is only advice given after the fact, and admonitions to avoid if at all possible.

Paul spoke about both sides. He gave significant attention to relationship between husband and wife and he also said it was better to stay single if you could do without that so you could serve the Lord undistracted by the worldly responsibilities you must attend to if you are married. However I do agree that the marriage and the family life is not a Christians chief calling in life as so many seem to think. For many years now I have seen what seems to be a focus on marriage and family life as if that is what you are called to focus on while you await the coming of the Lord. As if you will be judged for how good a dad or mom or husband or wife you were. The Christian calling is not to get married have kids, get a nice house, have a well maintained yard, save for retirement put your kids through college and tell them to do the same. That is not the great commission. Many Christians have a mindset that it is.

 

[cv5]

Paul spoke about both sides. He gave significant attention to relationship between husband and wife and he also said it was better to stay single if you could do without that so you could serve the Lord undistracted by the worldly responsibilities you must attend to if you are married. However I do agree that the marriage and the family life is not a Christians chief calling in life as so many seem to think. For many years now I have seen what seems to be a focus on marriage and family life as if that is what you are called to focus on while you await the coming of the Lord. As if you will be judged for how good a dad or mom or husband or wife you were. The Christian calling is not to get married have kids, get a nice house, have a well maintained yard, save for retirement put your kids through college and tell them to do the same. That is not the great commission. Many Christians have a mindset that it is.

I agree on every point. The Great Comission is the consuming task at hand.

 

[cv5]

So besides (we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say) clarifying what you meant in a way that changed it's meaning for most of us. We really should be asking why there's no marriage ceremony recorded between christians in the Bible. Shouldn't be too hard to ascertain that it wasn't from any prohibition or necessarily avoidance of marriage so much as 1) there's literally only 1 narrative book in the NT after the gospels (and there weren't really any christians before those events took place) and it was focused on the story of people who were travelling and spreading the faith. 2) During the time the Bible was written most people would have been coming to Christ as already married (hence all the teaching about how to behave in marriage even though we don't see weddings happening. 3) Christianity was designed (by God at least) to be a multinational multicultural religion and wedding ceremonies are highly cultural events that are determined in large part by the culture of the participants rather than their religion (which yes is a part of culture, but it's unlikely that any of the Biblical authors were concerned with defining what a "Christian Wedding" should look like).

So you're just reiterating Paul's advice which either you followed and after 56 years of singleness you were no longer capapble of self control or you didn't follow at all which would make you look like a hypocrite. Of course you say that but your attitude towards children doesn't seem to be very biblical either (which I admit I wouldn't want to start raising babies at 56+ either) . But the Bible says children are a heritage and blessing from the Lord. Mostly you sound like someone trying to read the Bible in such a way as to make it agree with his life choices... which makes you a pretty normal human being.

If you don't think a 56-year-old man has self-control think again. And one of the main motivations to marry was to make sure that this worthy and dear woman would get all of my money. And God willing after I die be taken care of and live very comfortably unless the Lord comes before then. And there is nothing wrong with that now is there?

 

[GWYW_Bob]

Not at all. The New Testament makes it clear that there is no commandment to marry, nor is there any commandment preventing marriage. Choice is up to the individual. However Paul warns that you are probably better off to remain single as you will be more serviceable in the ministry, and not suffer in the flesh, which suffering could be made worse under terrible tribulation.

And that's about it. The bottom line is you absolutely do not have to have to be married as a Christian, nor should there be any prejudice about the choice one way or the other.

I don't agree with this. Paul clearly is saying you are to marry if you do not have sexual continency. So while SOME might be able to live single without distraction by their choice for the sake of the kingdom, most people are not able to do that. The choice is not up to us, the choice is to do what God is leading that person to do. God made us to be single if there is no sexual neccesity to marry, or he made us for marriage. It IS up to each person to determine which one they are. I can tell you which one most of us are.

Single adults are often not even wanted for church ministry. God says marriage is the grace of life. Isn't that what you want?

If God designed someone for marriage, they do not have the choice to stay single. Are you suggesting we can disregard what God wants (through his word) and then do what we want?

That same Paul told the young widows to get married. 1Timothy 5:14.

 

[Kim82]

cv5 your dear lady married you for some cash? You didn't need to marry for that. You could have willed it to her.

 

[GWYW_Bob]

I agree on every point. The Great Comission is the consuming task at hand.

The point is whether a person should be doing this as a distracted burning single person or a married person. Pastor's are not going to soon be staying single so they can better minister, they can better serve as married. That's the decision to make.

 

[GWYW_Bob]

Paul spoke about both sides. He gave significant attention to relationship between husband and wife and he also said it was better to stay single if you could do without that so you could serve the Lord undistracted by the worldly responsibilities you must attend to if you are married. However I do agree that the marriage and the family life is not a Christians chief calling in life as so many seem to think. For many years now I have seen what seems to be a focus on marriage and family life as if that is what you are called to focus on while you await the coming of the Lord. As if you will be judged for how good a dad or mom or husband or wife you were. The Christian calling is not to get married have kids, get a nice house, have a well maintained yard, save for retirement put your kids through college and tell them to do the same. That is not the great commission. Many Christians have a mindset that it is.

Who is saying that marriage and family is the believer's chief calling? Marriage is the default position. Marriage is the grace of life. Most people will do better married, that is the point of 1 Corinthians 7. No where is Paul saying it is better to be single? That's for Paul but he knows it isn't for the majority. How are we going to raise the next generation of believers if people don't get married? Protracted singleness is not God's design.

 

[GWYW_Bob]

Paul spoke about both sides. He gave significant attention to relationship between husband and wife and he also said it was better to stay single if you could do without that so you could serve the Lord undistracted by the worldly responsibilities you must attend to if you are married. However I do agree that the marriage and the family life is not a Christians chief calling in life as so many seem to think. For many years now I have seen what seems to be a focus on marriage and family life as if that is what you are called to focus on while you await the coming of the Lord. As if you will be judged for how good a dad or mom or husband or wife you were. The Christian calling is not to get married have kids, get a nice house, have a well maintained yard, save for retirement put your kids through college and tell them to do the same. That is not the great commission. Many Christians have a mindset that it is.

Just who are the young widows Paul told to get married again suppposed to marry? Marriage has been the divine design since the beginning of creation. That is never going to change. I was single until I was 53 and always felt the church didn't talk about marriage enough, not that they talked about it too much. They need to do something because now they have so many single adults they don't know what to do with them.

 

[Lynx]

Aha, so THAT'S your game! You're here to castigate us singles for being single, and you want to guilt-trip us into finding spouses.

Good luck on that. We've already gone around and around with the "Christians have a holy duty to marry" debates. We're old hands at this argument.

You want to try to convince any of us we should get out there and find a spouse? Go ahead, give us your best fastball, curveball, or even spitball pitch.

 

[Scribe]

If God designed someone for marriage, they do not have the choice to stay single. Are you suggesting we can disregard what God wants (through his word) and then do what we want?

That same Paul told the young widows to get married. 1Timothy 5:14.

Nevertheless it is a choice.
The idea that God has a person designed just for you and wants you to marry them and you do not have a choice is not in any New Testament scriptures that I am aware of.
No one should think that they are sinning if they decide not to marry someone. Nor should they think they are sinning if they decide to marry a christian.
Paul seems to make it clear in 1 Cor 7 that it is a choice. He seems to be saying that for the ministry sake staying single is better but not everyone can do that so let them marry.
"THEY ARE NOT SINNING BY MARRYING" which is quite different than saying they are COMMANDED to marry. Quite different altogether in authorial intent.
(1 cor 7:36...let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.)

The young widows needed to marry for practical purposes as the culture of that time held out little hope for women to provide for themselves, therefore let the younger ones marry instead of taxing the church. The elder ones would be provided for by the church as their prospects for being taken care of by a new husband were unlikely. Even then it was not a COMMAND that they must marry, simply the answer to give them if they expected the church to take care of them. If the young widow was able to take care of herself and was not asking for the church to provide for her I am sure they did not tell her she was Commanded to marry based on this scripture. At least not these that first received this letter. Later someone might have tried to pull that using bad hermeneutics and we certainly have seen plenty of that in church history.

 

[cv5]

I don't agree with this. Paul clearly is saying you are to marry if you do not have sexual continency. So while SOME might be able to live single without distraction by their choice for the sake of the kingdom, most people are not able to do that. The choice is not up to us, the choice is to do what God is leading that person to do. God made us to be single if there is no sexual neccesity to marry, or he made us for marriage. It IS up to each person to determine which one they are. I can tell you which one most of us are.

Single adults are often not even wanted for church ministry. God says marriage is the grace of life. Isn't that what you want?

If God designed someone for marriage, they do not have the choice to stay single. Are you suggesting we can disregard what God wants (through his word) and then do what we want?

That same Paul told the young widows to get married. 1Timothy 5:14.

Is Paul equivocating on 1 Corinthians 7:1?
"Now concerning the things about which you wrote: It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

1 Corinthians 7:8 absolutely no wiggle room here either.
"Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am."

1 Corinthians 7:26
"Because of the present crisis, I think it is good for a man to remain as he is."

1 Corinthians 7:6-7
I say this as a concession, not as a command. But I wish everyone were single, just as I am.

Those young widows were troublemakers and a burden to the Church and Paul came up with a practical solution. But there is no doubt whatsoever that Paul made it perfectly clear that his preference for everybody would be to stay single.

1 Corinthians 7:35-37
I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but in order to promote proper decorum and undivided devotion to the Lord. 36However, ifsomeone thinks he is acting inappropriately toward his betrothed,and if she is beyond her youth and they ought to marry, let him do as he wishes;he is not sinning; they should get married. 37But the man who is firmly established in his heart and under no constraint, with control over his will and resolve in his heart not to marry the virgin, he will do well.…

Paul merely says here that it is no sin to marry. He certainly isn't commanding to marry and he certainly isn't even advising to marry.

That is more than enough to silence these detractors to worship marriage and family more than they worship the Lord Jesus Messiah. And before we forget, We had better post this scripture as well......

Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

 

[cv5]

cv5 your dear lady married you for some cash? You didn't need to marry for that. You could have willed it to her.

Not at all. First of all she has absolutely no idea whatsoever how much money I have. Secondly there is no doubt at all whatsoever that she could care less about money, and she has proven this consistently over two and a half years. And I could care less about money as well, it means nothing to me.

And because of this (and despite your strident protestations) she's going to get it all lol.

 

[Scribe]

The point is whether a person should be doing this as a distracted burning single person or a married person. Pastor's are not going to soon be staying single so they can better minister, they can better serve as married. That's the decision to make.

People think pastors should be married. Paul said he would do better to stay single (if he had that gift)
They idea that the pastor MUST be married is a bad interpretation about the blamelessness requirements of an elder, deacon, bishop. If they are married they should be married to only one wife is the blamelessness highlighted. Not practicing polygamy which would be shameful even though many gentiles, Greeks, and Jews were doing it at the time and many pointed to OT examples for justification but Jesus had given them a new commandment and they were to adhere to that in the christian church and so Paul is emphasizing this. If they had children they must govern them well. Paul was not saying a pastor must have children. Most people get that, but many today are saying that a pastor MUST be married. The Catholics say he MUST NOT be married, some other groups say he MUST BE married, both are wrong. Paul was answering questions about the benefits of staying single for the purpose of undistracted service to Christ and this would apply to a pastor if it would apply to anyone. If he used his time to spend hours in prayer and study of the word without distraction imagine the noticeable difference in his preaching ministry verses the pastor with a wife and houseful of kids that demand his attention all week and he tries to squeeze in some study and prayer time sufficient to not feel guilty of no preparation before his sermons.

 

[GWYW_Bob]

Is Paul equivocating on 1 Corinthians 7:1?
"Now concerning the things about which you wrote: It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

1 Corinthians 7:8 absolutely no wiggle room here either.
"Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am."

1 Corinthians 7:26
"Because of the present crisis, I think it is good for a man to remain as he is."

1 Corinthians 7:6-7
I say this as a concession, not as a command. But I wish everyone were single, just as I am.

Those young widows were troublemakers and a burden to the Church and Paul came up with a practical solution. But there is no doubt whatsoever that Paul made it perfectly clear that his preference for everybody would be to stay single.

1 Corinthians 7:35-37
I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but in order to promote proper decorum and undivided devotion to the Lord. 36However, ifsomeone thinks he is acting inappropriately toward his betrothed,and if she is beyond her youth and they ought to marry, let him do as he wishes;he is not sinning; they should get married. 37But the man who is firmly established in his heart and under no constraint, with control over his will and resolve in his heart not to marry the virgin, he will do well.…

Paul merely says here that it is no sin to marry. He certainly isn't commanding to marry and he certainly isn't even advising to marry.

That is more than enough to silence these detractors to worship marriage and family more than they worship the Lord Jesus Messiah. And before we forget, We had better post this scripture as well......

Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Sure by isolating these verses from the other things Paul said right there you could get the impression he was against marriage. He had the gift of singleness and wish everyone else had but that would be ridiculous. He would be wanting to kill off the world. You must read the whole chapter. There is no mistaking it. Paul is not telling us it is best for ALL PEOPLE to stay single, he is saying it is best for SOME like himself, who have the gift of singleness, which is rare.

So Peter calls marriage the grace of life (the very best of life), Paul is going to contradict Peter by saying he wishes that all would be like him? The fact is, most men and women can not live celibate. They should then marry because they are human. Paul is telling them to get married, that is best for them. Why do you have an issue that for some (clearly most) people, remaining celibate is going to be a losing battle?

This has nothing at all to do with worshipping marriage or singleness it has to do with discerning God's will for your life and following it. It is better to marry than to burn settle it. God doesn't intend for this to be some mystical decision.

The church does not know why single people are single. I've known many pastors in my time. They don't want them to be single, and even if they did, the Bible is clear-Get married, that's for most of us. Stay single if you can, but that's going to be extremely difficult unless they are gifted for it.

 

[cv5]

The point is whether a person should be doing this as a distracted burning single person or a married person. Pastor's are not going to soon be staying single so they can better minister, they can better serve as married. That's the decision to make.

Burning and distraction might be your problem but it isn't my problem. And if you have a problem with single pastors why don't you take it up with Paul in heaven when and if you get there? And if I may be so bold, please tell me the name of any pastor that you know who has had direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Or is better qualified than Paul to pastor a Church.

 

[Scribe]

Just who are the young widows Paul told to get married again suppposed to marry? Marriage has been the divine design since the beginning of creation. That is never going to change. I was single until I was 53 and always felt the church didn't talk about marriage enough, not that they talked about it too much. They need to do something because now they have so many single adults they don't know what to do with them.

No worries, very few will rise to the Great and Glorious calling of singleminded undistracted devotion to Christ as a one in a million who will stand in the gap and spend the time apart from the cares of this life and on their faces before a Holy God getting a fresh anointed Word from Heaven to share with the people that will turn the world upside down in our day. Only a few. A very small remnant. There will be plenty of others available who do not find the idea of that kind of intense seeking of God and no time for playing with the worlds triffles and amusements a very attractive concept, for the young widows to marry.