Catholicism vs Protestantism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
B

Bede

Guest
Good,
Read this text
ROME — At a time of global “tragedy and suffering” because of the coronavirus, and in view of the long-term impact it will have, believers of every religion should beg mercy from the one God and father of all, Pope Francis said.
P
Pope want every believer to pray to wich God?
Christian God or their own God

It mean pope pray to his God, He want other to pray to God mean he give example and pray to His god or he not do what he preach.
There is only one God.

Read this text and tell me who is Pope God


O Mary, you shine continuously on our journey as a sign of salvation and hope.
We entrust ourselves to you, Health of the Sick.
At the foot of the Cross you participated in Jesus’ pain,
with steadfast faith.
You, Salvation of the Roman People, know what we need.
We are certain that you will provide, so that,
as you did at Cana of Galilee,
joy and feasting might return after this moment of trial.
Help us, Mother of Divine Love,
to conform ourselves to the Father’s will
and to do what Jesus tells us:
He who took our sufferings upon Himself, and bore our sorrows to bring us,
through the Cross, to the joy of the Resurrection. Amen.
We seek refuge under your protection, O Holy Mother of God.
Do not despise our pleas – we who are put to the test – and deliver us from every danger, O glorious and blessed Virgin.
Source please.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Pope want every believer to pray to wich God
well, before we consider moving on to another subject,
did you want to answer the following question that I had asked?
or did you want to be done with the subject of worshiping God and at the same time not following his commandments or having full knowledge of him?
is the statement below true or false?
32They worshiped the Lord, but they also appointed all sorts of their own people to officiate for them as priests in the shrines at the high places
https://biblehub.com/niv/2_kings/17.htm
 
B

Bede

Guest

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Sort of both I think.
When we are baptised we are baptised into Christ.
But also we are baptised into a particular Rite.
A bit like Anglicans are baptised into Christ but also into the Anglican Church, except that Catholics are baptised into a particular rite within the Catholic Church.
thanks for the answer, looks like we might have different understandings of baptism!

I'm glad you use the example of Anglican Church because I was present at the baptism of some good friends in an Episcopal Church (ECUSA).
this is the service they used, or something very similar
https://www.bcponline.org/

I did not have any impression that they were being baptized into a particular group or denomination.
I didn't sense that they had the impression that they were joining a particular group, they believed they were just being baptized.

is this an official Catholic teaching, that a person is baptized into a particular rite?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
well, before we consider moving on to another subject,
did you want to answer the following question that I had asked?
or did you want to be done with the subject of worshiping God and at the same time not following his commandments or having full knowledge of him?
I don't understand your question, this is philosophical question

Do you believe it is posible to worship true God and mammon

Matthew 6:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
King James Version (KJV)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
The prayer is only asking Mary to help us by her intercession, just as she did at Cana on behalf of the couple who had run out of wine. And we have confidence that Jesus will listen to her prayer just as he did at Cana.
And he believe Mary able to hear him?
Why don't he pray to Jesus?
It was Mary phisically live and there (in Cana) how we prove Mary in Rome when pope talk to her.

Pope ask every people from every religion to pray to God.

Muslim to God

Hindus to God

So pope did what he preach, and it happen he pray to Mary
Read the context my brother, the context is to promote pray to god

Base on the context pope's God is Mary
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I don't understand your question,
no problem. I asked several questions, which ones do you not understand?
this is philosophical question

Do you believe it is posible to worship true God and mammon

Matthew 6:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
King James Version (KJV)
yes, I think it is possible to worship God and Mammon.

it is not possible to serve God and Mammon.
 
B

Bede

Guest
And he believe Mary able to hear him?
Why don't he pray to Jesus?
If you look back through the posts in this thread I think you find that this has been explained already.

It was Mary phisically live and there (in Cana) how we prove Mary in Rome when pope talk to her.
Mary is in heaven.

Pope ask every people from every religion to pray to God.

Muslim to God

Hindus to God

So pope did what he preach, and it happen he pray to Mary
Read the context my brother, the context is to promote pray to god

Base on the context pope's God is Mary
No it isn't.
 
B

Bede

Guest
thanks for the answer, looks like we might have different understandings of baptism!

I'm glad you use the example of Anglican Church because I was present at the baptism of some good friends in an Episcopal Church (ECUSA).
this is the service they used, or something very similar
https://www.bcponline.org/

I did not have any impression that they were being baptized into a particular group or denomination.
I didn't sense that they had the impression that they were joining a particular group, they believed they were just being baptized.

is this an official Catholic teaching, that a person is baptized into a particular rite?
I think so.

The Catechism says this about Rites.
1203 The liturgical traditions or rites presently in use in the Church are the Latin (principally the Roman rite, but also the rites of certain local churches, such as the Ambrosian rite, or those of certain religious orders) and the Byzantine, Alexandrian or Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite and Chaldean rites. In "faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that Holy Mother Church holds all lawfully recognized rites to be of equal right and dignity, and that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Mary is in heaven.
How did Pope know Mary able to hear him?

So pope preach to every body to pray to God and he didn't pray to God ?
When he ask people to pray to god he better pray to God didn't he?

Than he pray to Mary, and you say Mary is not his god

Read the context brother
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
no problem. I asked several questions, which ones do you not understand?

yes, I think it is possible to worship God and Mammon.

it is not possible to serve God and Mammon.
Is it posible to serve god but not worship god?
 
B

Bede

Guest
How did Pope know Mary able to hear him?



So pope preach to every body to pray to God and he didn't pray to God ?
When he ask people to pray to god he better pray to God didn't he?

Than he pray to Mary, and you say Mary is not his god

Read the context brother
Been through all that.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I think so.

The Catechism says this about Rites.
1203 The liturgical traditions or rites presently in use in the Church are the Latin (principally the Roman rite, but also the rites of certain local churches, such as the Ambrosian rite, or those of certain religious orders) and the Byzantine, Alexandrian or Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite and Chaldean rites. In "faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that Holy Mother Church holds all lawfully recognized rites to be of equal right and dignity, and that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way."
thanks for the reference, and I understand that many rites are recognized by the Catholic Church, and that is an official teaching.

but as it relates to baptism, is it an official teaching that a person is baptized into a particular rite?
 
B

Bede

Guest
thanks for the reference, and I understand that many rites are recognized by the Catholic Church, and that is an official teaching.

but as it relates to baptism, is it an official teaching that a person is baptized into a particular rite?
As far as I know it is.
I've been looking this up and the best I can find so far is from the Catholic Answers Forum.
The question was posed "What’s the process of changing rites in the Church?"
That question and the answer implies that one is "in" a particular rite.
The whole answer is long but I'll post if for you anyway. Note the bit I have emboldened.

"Since sometime during the reign of Pope John Paul II it the term changing ‘rites’ is not quite appropriate.

When it was just one church with different rites that made sense, but today the various patricular ritual churches are regarded as Sui Iuris, or with it’s own law, and they are theoretically all equal before the Pope. Also, some of these Autonomous Ritual (Particular) Churches share the same liturgical tradition so one has to be specific as to which church a person is changing to. (For instance, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church and the Romanian Greek Catholic church use the same liturgical tradition/ritual tradition, one does not join the liturgical tradition, one joins the church.)

Therefore, one does not change ‘rites’ as such, one changes churches. This is referred to as canonical enrollment, and although there are exceptions the simple answer is one is normally automatically enrolled in the church of one’s father at baptism.

Changing canonical enrollment requires the agreement of one’s present bishop as well as the receiving bishop (they will usually be different dioceses with overlapping territory). If both bishops agree, the approval of the Holy See at Rome (which reserves the right to rule on this) can be assumed.

To do this one should have the pastor of the new parish (one can join a parish of another autonomous church without actually changing canonical enrollment) help in writing the letter or letters. The pastor can help one know of the particular requirements the new bishop will place on the candidate. One should not wait for the pastor or missioner to suggest one transfer, he might never do so, for to suggest such a thing could be construed as poaching members from a sister church. He will probably be satisfied if the person enrolls in the parish and makes regular contributions.

Some receiving bishops will allow one to transfer into their care in less than a year, some will require an indefinite wait and I knew of one who required a three year period of participation and life on the new calendar. One’s former (or as it actually is, the present …) bishop may not approve if he thinks one is not a good Catholic (no prior parish registration or recorded contributions for instance), or that the reason one is leaving is to skirt canon law.

In some odd cases the church one wishes to transfer into does not actually have a bishop, because the Pope has not erected a diocese. One example could be the Russian Catholic church, which has no bishops (not even in Russia). In that case the local mission will probably be under the local Latin ordinary and if one is already a Latin Catholic living close enough it is conceivable that one’s new bishop will be the same as the old bishop!"
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
As far as I know it is.
I've been looking this up and the best I can find so far is from the Catholic Answers Forum.
The question was posed "What’s the process of changing rites in the Church?"
That question and the answer implies that one is "in" a particular rite.
The whole answer is long but I'll post if for you anyway. Note the bit I have emboldened.

"Since sometime during the reign of Pope John Paul II it the term changing ‘rites’ is not quite appropriate.

When it was just one church with different rites that made sense, but today the various patricular ritual churches are regarded as Sui Iuris, or with it’s own law, and they are theoretically all equal before the Pope. Also, some of these Autonomous Ritual (Particular) Churches share the same liturgical tradition so one has to be specific as to which church a person is changing to. (For instance, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church and the Romanian Greek Catholic church use the same liturgical tradition/ritual tradition, one does not join the liturgical tradition, one joins the church.)

Therefore, one does not change ‘rites’ as such, one changes churches. This is referred to as canonical enrollment, and although there are exceptions the simple answer is one is normally automatically enrolled in the church of one’s father at baptism.

Changing canonical enrollment requires the agreement of one’s present bishop as well as the receiving bishop (they will usually be different dioceses with overlapping territory). If both bishops agree, the approval of the Holy See at Rome (which reserves the right to rule on this) can be assumed.

To do this one should have the pastor of the new parish (one can join a parish of another autonomous church without actually changing canonical enrollment) help in writing the letter or letters. The pastor can help one know of the particular requirements the new bishop will place on the candidate. One should not wait for the pastor or missioner to suggest one transfer, he might never do so, for to suggest such a thing could be construed as poaching members from a sister church. He will probably be satisfied if the person enrolls in the parish and makes regular contributions.

Some receiving bishops will allow one to transfer into their care in less than a year, some will require an indefinite wait and I knew of one who required a three year period of participation and life on the new calendar. One’s former (or as it actually is, the present …) bishop may not approve if he thinks one is not a good Catholic (no prior parish registration or recorded contributions for instance), or that the reason one is leaving is to skirt canon law.

In some odd cases the church one wishes to transfer into does not actually have a bishop, because the Pope has not erected a diocese. One example could be the Russian Catholic church, which has no bishops (not even in Russia). In that case the local mission will probably be under the local Latin ordinary and if one is already a Latin Catholic living close enough it is conceivable that one’s new bishop will be the same as the old bishop!"
thanks for looking it up, and I think of course we both agree that Catholic answers, although frequented by highly knowledgeable Catholics, does not on its own produce official Catholic documents.

to be honest, reading the person's answer, it sounds more like a person baptized by someone ordained by the Catholic Church is expected to practice Christianity in one of the recognized rites.
so at the time of baptism, a person is assumed to be intending to participate in the same rite as the cleric who is officiating at the baptism.

so it's not like you're baptized into a particular rite, rather at the time of baptism you're expected to pick a rite.

or did I read that wrong?
 
B

Bede

Guest
thanks for looking it up, and I think of course we both agree that Catholic answers, although frequented by highly knowledgeable Catholics, does not on its own produce official Catholic documents.

to be honest, reading the person's answer, it sounds more like a person baptized by someone ordained by the Catholic Church is expected to practice Christianity in one of the recognized rites.
so at the time of baptism, a person is assumed to be intending to participate in the same rite as the cleric who is officiating at the baptism.

so it's not like you're baptized into a particular rite, rather at the time of baptism you're expected to pick a rite.

or did I read that wrong?
Probably most people are baptised as babies or infants so it's not their choice but their parents.
But if an adult wants to become a Catholic then they will enquire with a particular rite/church, attend some sort of course, attend Mass at that church and then be baptised in that church.
 
B

Bede

Guest
And he believe Mary able to hear him?
Why don't he pray to Jesus?
It was Mary phisically live and there (in Cana) how we prove Mary in Rome when pope talk to her.
Done some research for you.
Have a look at posts #165, #173, #176 in the thread "Catholics and Other Religions".
I think they answer your questions.