"Not by works" - false!

[mailmandan]

I does indeed.
So maybe not so funny after all.
Thank you!

You're welcome. Not sure why anyone would find that definition funny. Certain people that I've discussed repentance with over the years have frowned on the definition of "change of mind," but it's usually works-salvationists who instead prefer the definition "moral self-reformation" or "completely stop sinning." Such people usually end up confusing the fruit of repentance with the essence of repentance.

 

[Judges1318]

I believe in eternal security and despise calvinism. I won’t even dignify it with capitalization.

That is the trend.
People are abandoning Calvinism.
But look how sure people used to be that it was the absolute truth.

 

[Pulie]

It is. It comes from the 'P' in TULIP.

Now we have the new osas to contend with.
In it, you don't even have to keep believing to remain saved.
Calvin didn't even believe that!

Okay I see. The P emphasizes genuine Faith and a state of being in saving grace which means salvation remains on a positional level.

 

[jackrosie]

Correct, that 'someone' doesn't satisfy the definition of having faith. They don't have it because they've rejected it, not because God didn't convict them. God calls them to himself through the conviction of faith but instead of allowing that conviction of faith to lead them to believing/trusting in Christ they reject it instead.

To 'have' faith means to accept the convicting testimony of the Holy Spirit. That's what the believer does. He accepts the faith God is giving to believe and be saved. God presents the unbeliever with the faith to believe, too, but they reject it, not accept it. As a result they do not have faith. How can they? They've rejected it.

A born again can never ever reject Jesus because God gave us to him......no one and I mean no one can snatch us away from him......
How do you explain that away as it is scriptural?

 

[Judges1318]

Which is why for the most part they can not hear those of us who preach eternal security.

I teach eternal security.
But you don't believe that because you define it outside the boundaries of what the Bible actually says.

 

[Judges1318]

Okay I see. The P emphasizes genuine Faith and a state of being in saving grace which means salvation remains on a positional level.

At first glance I think that's correct.

 

[Judges1318]

A born again can never ever reject Jesus because God gave us to him......no one and I mean no one can snatch us away from him......
How do you explain that away as it is scriptural?

Yes, no one can snatch you away from Christ against your desire to remain in and continue to believe in Christ.
What you are free to do is stop believing in Christ.
And no unbeliever has any place in Christ or the kingdom to come.

 

[jackrosie]

The elect are kept by the power of God.....we are the elect...he knew us before we were born.

 

[Pulie]

At first glance I think that's correct.

Okay, what happens after that?

 

[jackrosie]

Yes, no one can snatch you away from Christ against your desire to remain in and continue to believe in Christ.
What you are free to do is stop believing in Christ.
And no unbeliever has any place in Christ or the kingdom to come.

“WE”. don’t come into it Judges...please read my last post.

 

[gb9]

I teach eternal security.
But you don't believe that because you define it outside the boundaries of what the Bible actually says.

and you refuse to use word definitions and context in Scripture.

you are your own theological standard, which is the same thing as bearing witness of yourself...

 

[Judges1318]

Because they are to busy fighting calvinism.

Actually, Calvinism is not the horrible doctrine. At least it defends the necessity to continue to believe in order to be saved, and the necessity to live a holy life. It's this new doctrine called 'Freegrace' that I'm vehemently opposed to. Even though it's another osas doctrine it has very little in common with Calvinism. It teaches that you do not have to continue to believe to be saved, and you do not have to live a holy life to be saved.

 

[Duskey]

That is the trend.
People are abandoning Calvinism.
But look how sure people used to be that it was the absolute truth.

I can’t speak for other people. I only know calvinism grates against my soul.

 

[Judges1318]

and you refuse to use word definitions and context in Scripture.

you are your own theological standard, which is the same thing as bearing witness of yourself...

Like I say, I know it's not going to be easy trying to show people the truth.
You're not going to dissuade me.

 

[mailmandan]

A born again can never ever reject Jesus because God gave us to him......no one and I mean no one can snatch us away from him......
How do you explain that away as it is scriptural?

Amen!

John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear My voice and some of them don't hear My voice) and I know them, (not some of them I know and some of them I don't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow me and some of them don't follow me) 28 And I give them eternal life, (not some of them I give eternal life and some of them I don't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of my hand and some of them will be snatched out of my hand).

 

[Judges1318]

I can’t speak for other people. I only know calvinism grates against my soul.

The parts that don't concern osas directly grate against me too, but its always been a non issue when it came to having genuine Holy Spirit filled fellowship with anyone who embraced it's theology. Not until this new Freegrace junk came along has the dividing line of who you're going to fellowship with and who you're not going to fellowship with has been drawn. Why? Because they defend the doctrine that a 'believer' can live in sin, oblivious to the fact that Paul was very clear that people who live in sin are to be put out of the church.

 

[gb9]

Like I say, I know it's not going to be easy trying to show people the truth.
You're not going to dissuade me.

oh, i am not trying to dissuade you, i mean, you think you have the right and authority to judge others on outward actions, so there is no teachable spirit in that attitude.

i just point out all the errors in your theology to others who might be reading this..

 

[Judges1318]

“WE”. don’t come into it Judges...please read my last post.

Don't come into what? Christ? The kingdom?

 

[Judges1318]

oh, i am not trying to dissuade you, i mean, you think you have the right and authority to judge others on outward actions, so there is no teachable spirit in that attitude.

i just point out all the errors in your theology to others who might be reading this..

But can you do that without attacking me? You don't seem real good at just talking about the issues. You also make this personal.

 

[Judges1318]

and you refuse to use word definitions and context in Scripture.

By the way, ignoring context is the biggest downfall of osas. That is what causes it to not define Biblical terms correctly.