Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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So after all you do agree with OSAS...
The real disagreement is that you suggest that a person who wants to go and do these things is a regenerated Christian who walks away. But could such be? Even if it could, it could not at the expense of breaking the Scriptures that assure us of security you mention in that first sentence.
OSAS believers on CC do not promote such teachings that you "can do what you want". We do not believe a person who wants to do all that has really known or believed Jesus at all. A lot of people who fight OSAS believers here really need to take the issue up to Joel Ostin or whoever is teaching that you "can do" whatever you want. You can't outsin grace but as you know yourself, you don't even entertain that thought if you're a friend of Jesus.
I think we should be careful not to warp the gospel ourselves just because someone is trying hard to warp it to the opposite side. It's the very grace and irrevocability of grace that reveals God's magnanimous character to us and how we know it was God and not a humanities project.
The real disagreement is that you suggest that a person who wants to go and do these things is a regenerated Christian who walks away. But could such be? Even if it could, it could not at the expense of breaking the Scriptures that assure us of security you mention in that first sentence.
OSAS believers on CC do not promote such teachings that you "can do what you want". We do not believe a person who wants to do all that has really known or believed Jesus at all. A lot of people who fight OSAS believers here really need to take the issue up to Joel Ostin or whoever is teaching that you "can do" whatever you want. You can't outsin grace but as you know yourself, you don't even entertain that thought if you're a friend of Jesus.
I think we should be careful not to warp the gospel ourselves just because someone is trying hard to warp it to the opposite side. It's the very grace and irrevocability of grace that reveals God's magnanimous character to us and how we know it was God and not a humanities project.
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@dcontroversal - How about "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"......or "love your enemies"?
Look dc, you and I agree that OSAS is TRUE - The Gift of Salvation CANNOT be lost.
We just differ on how we choose to DEFEND the Truth. God made you hard and abrasive, whereas He made me kind and gentle.
NEVER did I embrace DorothyMae's opposition to OSAS but, I did embrace her and encouraged her to keep seeking Truth with an open heart and an open mind and to love and desire Truth.
You're treating ALL "Salvation Losers" as Pharisees and I agree that most do have a "Pharisee mentality" or are "wolves in sheep clothing" but, perhaps some of those "wolves" are REALLY sheep....
What if DorothyMae is just simply a VERY upset sheep in the fold and angry that the sheep are not behaving?
@DorothyMae - correct if I'm wrong but, the way I understand your view of OSAS is that it gives Christians a free pass to sin with no consequences and their sins are very harmful to others - you adamantly oppose and even venomously despise the injustice that Christians inflict on others, especially the weak, helpless, poor and needy.
Well, if I am correct in your view of OSAS then this is my kind and gentle response:
Some people profess to be Christians and actually NEVER were saved because they did it in their flesh for self promoting reasons - meaning the condition of their heart was NOT good ground - the seed of faith never took root.
A true born again believer in Christ does NOT desire to sin because their nature is no longer in Adam, they are now IN CHRIST. However, the true believer still stumbles over their "flesh" and will sin but, the more they embrace the Holy Spirit and the the Word of God, their minds will be renewed - line upon line, precept upon precept and they will learn the perfect will of God and how to walk by the Spirit so they do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
We are to forgive one another and not judge, condemn or point fingers at each other.
When I am a victim of another "Christian's" sin, I am to forgive them and confront them in a way that does not judge or condemn but rather brings reconciliation. If they continue then, I am to disassociate myself from them because the Lord will deal with them. God will chastise us as dear children because He loves us.
ANY and ALL wrong done to us by Christians and non-Christians will be recompensed to us by God - He will bring goodness out of ALL our sufferings, we need only to trust Him.
The Gift of Salvation is NEVER taken away from ANY true born again believer. We are FOREVER and ETERNALLY SAVED and His possession - His children - The Children of Light.
DorothyMae and dcontroversal - God loves us all. We will disagree until our minds are renewed and we are walking by the Spirit bearing the Fruit of the Spirit and manifesting the Gifts of the Spirit in our lives for the edifying of the Believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord, Savior and King and to promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth that is to come.
Much love to both of you IN CHRIST!
Look dc, you and I agree that OSAS is TRUE - The Gift of Salvation CANNOT be lost.
We just differ on how we choose to DEFEND the Truth. God made you hard and abrasive, whereas He made me kind and gentle.
NEVER did I embrace DorothyMae's opposition to OSAS but, I did embrace her and encouraged her to keep seeking Truth with an open heart and an open mind and to love and desire Truth.
You're treating ALL "Salvation Losers" as Pharisees and I agree that most do have a "Pharisee mentality" or are "wolves in sheep clothing" but, perhaps some of those "wolves" are REALLY sheep....
What if DorothyMae is just simply a VERY upset sheep in the fold and angry that the sheep are not behaving?
@DorothyMae - correct if I'm wrong but, the way I understand your view of OSAS is that it gives Christians a free pass to sin with no consequences and their sins are very harmful to others - you adamantly oppose and even venomously despise the injustice that Christians inflict on others, especially the weak, helpless, poor and needy.
Well, if I am correct in your view of OSAS then this is my kind and gentle response:
Some people profess to be Christians and actually NEVER were saved because they did it in their flesh for self promoting reasons - meaning the condition of their heart was NOT good ground - the seed of faith never took root.
A true born again believer in Christ does NOT desire to sin because their nature is no longer in Adam, they are now IN CHRIST. However, the true believer still stumbles over their "flesh" and will sin but, the more they embrace the Holy Spirit and the the Word of God, their minds will be renewed - line upon line, precept upon precept and they will learn the perfect will of God and how to walk by the Spirit so they do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
We are to forgive one another and not judge, condemn or point fingers at each other.
When I am a victim of another "Christian's" sin, I am to forgive them and confront them in a way that does not judge or condemn but rather brings reconciliation. If they continue then, I am to disassociate myself from them because the Lord will deal with them. God will chastise us as dear children because He loves us.
ANY and ALL wrong done to us by Christians and non-Christians will be recompensed to us by God - He will bring goodness out of ALL our sufferings, we need only to trust Him.
The Gift of Salvation is NEVER taken away from ANY true born again believer. We are FOREVER and ETERNALLY SAVED and His possession - His children - The Children of Light.
DorothyMae and dcontroversal - God loves us all. We will disagree until our minds are renewed and we are walking by the Spirit bearing the Fruit of the Spirit and manifesting the Gifts of the Spirit in our lives for the edifying of the Believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord, Savior and King and to promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth that is to come.
Much love to both of you IN CHRIST!
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@dcontroversal - How about "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"......or "love your enemies"?
Look dc, you and I agree that OSAS is TRUE - The Gift of Salvation CANNOT be lost.
We just differ on how we choose to DEFEND the Truth. God made you hard and abrasive, whereas He made me kind and gentle.
NEVER did I embrace DorothyMae's opposition to OSAS but, I did embrace her and encouraged her to keep seeking Truth with an open heart and an open mind and to love and desire Truth.
You're treating ALL "Salvation Losers" as Pharisees and I agree that most do have a "Pharisee mentality" or are "wolves in sheep clothing" but, perhaps some of those "wolves" are REALLY sheep....
What if DorothyMae is just simply a VERY upset sheep in the fold and angry that the sheep are not behaving?
@DorothyMae - correct if I'm wrong but, the way I understand your view of OSAS is that it gives Christians a free pass to sin with no consequences and their sins are very harmful to others - you adamantly oppose and even venomously despise the injustice that Christians inflict on others, especially the weak, helpless, poor and needy.
Well, if I am correct in your view of OSAS then this is my kind and gentle response:
Some people profess to be Christians and actually NEVER were saved because they did it in their flesh for self promoting reasons - meaning the condition of their heart was NOT good ground - the seed of faith never took root.
A true born again believer in Christ does NOT desire to sin because their nature is no longer in Adam, they are now IN CHRIST. However, the true believer still stumbles over their "flesh" and will sin but, the more they embrace the Holy Spirit and the the Word of God, their minds will be renewed - line upon line, precept upon precept and they will learn the perfect will of God and how to walk by the Spirit so they do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
We are to forgive one another and not judge, condemn or point fingers at each other.
When I am a victim of another "Christian's" sin, I am to forgive them and confront them in a way that does not judge or condemn but rather brings reconciliation. If they continue then, I am to disassociate myself from them because the Lord will deal with them. God will chastise us as dear children because He loves us.
ANY and ALL wrong done to us by Christians and non-Christians will be recompensed to us by God - He will bring goodness out of ALL our sufferings, we need only to trust Him.
The Gift of Salvation is NEVER taken away from ANY true born again believer. We are FOREVER and ETERNALLY SAVED and His possession - His children - The Children of Light.
DorothyMae and dcontroversal - God loves us all. We will disagree until our minds are renewed and we are walking by the Spirit bearing the Fruit of the Spirit and manifesting the Gifts of the Spirit in our lives for the edifying of the Believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord, Savior and King and to promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth that is to come.
Much love to both of you IN CHRIST!
Look dc, you and I agree that OSAS is TRUE - The Gift of Salvation CANNOT be lost.
We just differ on how we choose to DEFEND the Truth. God made you hard and abrasive, whereas He made me kind and gentle.
NEVER did I embrace DorothyMae's opposition to OSAS but, I did embrace her and encouraged her to keep seeking Truth with an open heart and an open mind and to love and desire Truth.
You're treating ALL "Salvation Losers" as Pharisees and I agree that most do have a "Pharisee mentality" or are "wolves in sheep clothing" but, perhaps some of those "wolves" are REALLY sheep....
What if DorothyMae is just simply a VERY upset sheep in the fold and angry that the sheep are not behaving?
@DorothyMae - correct if I'm wrong but, the way I understand your view of OSAS is that it gives Christians a free pass to sin with no consequences and their sins are very harmful to others - you adamantly oppose and even venomously despise the injustice that Christians inflict on others, especially the weak, helpless, poor and needy.
Well, if I am correct in your view of OSAS then this is my kind and gentle response:
Some people profess to be Christians and actually NEVER were saved because they did it in their flesh for self promoting reasons - meaning the condition of their heart was NOT good ground - the seed of faith never took root.
A true born again believer in Christ does NOT desire to sin because their nature is no longer in Adam, they are now IN CHRIST. However, the true believer still stumbles over their "flesh" and will sin but, the more they embrace the Holy Spirit and the the Word of God, their minds will be renewed - line upon line, precept upon precept and they will learn the perfect will of God and how to walk by the Spirit so they do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
We are to forgive one another and not judge, condemn or point fingers at each other.
When I am a victim of another "Christian's" sin, I am to forgive them and confront them in a way that does not judge or condemn but rather brings reconciliation. If they continue then, I am to disassociate myself from them because the Lord will deal with them. God will chastise us as dear children because He loves us.
ANY and ALL wrong done to us by Christians and non-Christians will be recompensed to us by God - He will bring goodness out of ALL our sufferings, we need only to trust Him.
The Gift of Salvation is NEVER taken away from ANY true born again believer. We are FOREVER and ETERNALLY SAVED and His possession - His children - The Children of Light.
DorothyMae and dcontroversal - God loves us all. We will disagree until our minds are renewed and we are walking by the Spirit bearing the Fruit of the Spirit and manifesting the Gifts of the Spirit in our lives for the edifying of the Believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord, Savior and King and to promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth that is to come.
Much love to both of you IN CHRIST!
Praise God for this post...Firm but said in God’s Love.
Hallelujah!!.....Praise The Lord...I waited a while for this post Lord.
But it was so worth the wait!
I am dancing around the room because God spoke to me through this post.
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@dcontroversal - How about "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"......or "love your enemies"?
Look dc, you and I agree that OSAS is TRUE - The Gift of Salvation CANNOT be lost.
We just differ on how we choose to DEFEND the Truth. God made you hard and abrasive, whereas He made me kind and gentle.
NEVER did I embrace DorothyMae's opposition to OSAS but, I did embrace her and encouraged her to keep seeking Truth with an open heart and an open mind and to love and desire Truth.
You're treating ALL "Salvation Losers" as Pharisees and I agree that most do have a "Pharisee mentality" or are "wolves in sheep clothing" but, perhaps some of those "wolves" are REALLY sheep....
What if DorothyMae is just simply a VERY upset sheep in the fold and angry that the sheep are not behaving?
@DorothyMae - correct if I'm wrong but, the way I understand your view of OSAS is that it gives Christians a free pass to sin with no consequences and their sins are very harmful to others - you adamantly oppose and even venomously despise the injustice that Christians inflict on others, especially the weak, helpless, poor and needy.
Well, if I am correct in your view of OSAS then this is my kind and gentle response:
Some people profess to be Christians and actually NEVER were saved because they did it in their flesh for self promoting reasons - meaning the condition of their heart was NOT good ground - the seed of faith never took root.
A true born again believer in Christ does NOT desire to sin because their nature is no longer in Adam, they are now IN CHRIST. However, the true believer still stumbles over their "flesh" and will sin but, the more they embrace the Holy Spirit and the the Word of God, their minds will be renewed - line upon line, precept upon precept and they will learn the perfect will of God and how to walk by the Spirit so they do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
We are to forgive one another and not judge, condemn or point fingers at each other.
When I am a victim of another "Christian's" sin, I am to forgive them and confront them in a way that does not judge or condemn but rather brings reconciliation. If they continue then, I am to disassociate myself from them because the Lord will deal with them. God will chastise us as dear children because He loves us.
ANY and ALL wrong done to us by Christians and non-Christians will be recompensed to us by God - He will bring goodness out of ALL our sufferings, we need only to trust Him.
The Gift of Salvation is NEVER taken away from ANY true born again believer. We are FOREVER and ETERNALLY SAVED and His possession - His children - The Children of Light.
DorothyMae and dcontroversal - God loves us all. We will disagree until our minds are renewed and we are walking by the Spirit bearing the Fruit of the Spirit and manifesting the Gifts of the Spirit in our lives for the edifying of the Believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord, Savior and King and to promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth that is to come.
Much love to both of you IN CHRIST!
Look dc, you and I agree that OSAS is TRUE - The Gift of Salvation CANNOT be lost.
We just differ on how we choose to DEFEND the Truth. God made you hard and abrasive, whereas He made me kind and gentle.
NEVER did I embrace DorothyMae's opposition to OSAS but, I did embrace her and encouraged her to keep seeking Truth with an open heart and an open mind and to love and desire Truth.
You're treating ALL "Salvation Losers" as Pharisees and I agree that most do have a "Pharisee mentality" or are "wolves in sheep clothing" but, perhaps some of those "wolves" are REALLY sheep....
What if DorothyMae is just simply a VERY upset sheep in the fold and angry that the sheep are not behaving?
@DorothyMae - correct if I'm wrong but, the way I understand your view of OSAS is that it gives Christians a free pass to sin with no consequences and their sins are very harmful to others - you adamantly oppose and even venomously despise the injustice that Christians inflict on others, especially the weak, helpless, poor and needy.
Well, if I am correct in your view of OSAS then this is my kind and gentle response:
Some people profess to be Christians and actually NEVER were saved because they did it in their flesh for self promoting reasons - meaning the condition of their heart was NOT good ground - the seed of faith never took root.
A true born again believer in Christ does NOT desire to sin because their nature is no longer in Adam, they are now IN CHRIST. However, the true believer still stumbles over their "flesh" and will sin but, the more they embrace the Holy Spirit and the the Word of God, their minds will be renewed - line upon line, precept upon precept and they will learn the perfect will of God and how to walk by the Spirit so they do NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
We are to forgive one another and not judge, condemn or point fingers at each other.
When I am a victim of another "Christian's" sin, I am to forgive them and confront them in a way that does not judge or condemn but rather brings reconciliation. If they continue then, I am to disassociate myself from them because the Lord will deal with them. God will chastise us as dear children because He loves us.
ANY and ALL wrong done to us by Christians and non-Christians will be recompensed to us by God - He will bring goodness out of ALL our sufferings, we need only to trust Him.
The Gift of Salvation is NEVER taken away from ANY true born again believer. We are FOREVER and ETERNALLY SAVED and His possession - His children - The Children of Light.
DorothyMae and dcontroversal - God loves us all. We will disagree until our minds are renewed and we are walking by the Spirit bearing the Fruit of the Spirit and manifesting the Gifts of the Spirit in our lives for the edifying of the Believers in Christ Jesus, our Lord, Savior and King and to promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth that is to come.
Much love to both of you IN CHRIST!
Is this instruction on how to deal with false teachers in scripture.
This is what I read...
Acts 29, “I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in, not sparing the flock.”
Do you think love will stop them from doing what they do, that is namely to bring harm?
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Smart and wonderful @EleventhHour,
Did the "Good Shepherd" die and leave you in charge of defending His sheep?
I recall He told Peter to FEED His Sheep and wash each others feet.
The ONLY ONE that can defend the sheep from "wolves" is the Good Shepherd - Jesus Christ our Lord.
When we love and feed the sheep with TRUTH, the wolves CANNOT devour them.
If we try to feed a wolf they will reject the grass (Word of God), and attack us. We can know the difference.
Where you, dcontroveral and I are differing is when and how to recognize a sheep from a wolf......
I just don't see DorothyMae as a wolf in sheep clothing.
It's best to just stay close to the ONE and ONLY Good Shepherd of our souls and love one another.
Did the "Good Shepherd" die and leave you in charge of defending His sheep?
I recall He told Peter to FEED His Sheep and wash each others feet.
The ONLY ONE that can defend the sheep from "wolves" is the Good Shepherd - Jesus Christ our Lord.
When we love and feed the sheep with TRUTH, the wolves CANNOT devour them.
If we try to feed a wolf they will reject the grass (Word of God), and attack us. We can know the difference.
Where you, dcontroveral and I are differing is when and how to recognize a sheep from a wolf......
I just don't see DorothyMae as a wolf in sheep clothing.
It's best to just stay close to the ONE and ONLY Good Shepherd of our souls and love one another.
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Smart and wonderful @EleventhHour,
Did the "Good Shepherd" die and leave you in charge of defending His sheep?
I recall He told Peter to FEED His Sheep and wash each others feet.
The ONLY ONE that can defend the sheep from "wolves" is the Good Shepherd - Jesus Christ our Lord.
When we love and feed the sheep with TRUTH, the wolves CANNOT devour them.
If we try to feed a wolf they will reject the grass (Word of God), and attack us. We can know the difference.
Where you, dcontroveral and I are differing is when and how to recognize a sheep from a wolf......
I just don't see DorothyMae as a wolf in sheep clothing.
It's best to just stay close to the ONE and ONLY Good Shepherd of our souls and love one another.
Did the "Good Shepherd" die and leave you in charge of defending His sheep?
I recall He told Peter to FEED His Sheep and wash each others feet.
The ONLY ONE that can defend the sheep from "wolves" is the Good Shepherd - Jesus Christ our Lord.
When we love and feed the sheep with TRUTH, the wolves CANNOT devour them.
If we try to feed a wolf they will reject the grass (Word of God), and attack us. We can know the difference.
Where you, dcontroveral and I are differing is when and how to recognize a sheep from a wolf......
I just don't see DorothyMae as a wolf in sheep clothing.
It's best to just stay close to the ONE and ONLY Good Shepherd of our souls and love one another.
I think both need to assume the other is someone who God can will to himself. At the moment I do not see her as a sheep. But in her present state an enemy of the gospel who we need to pray and hope that repents
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Well agree with ALL your agree... except for disagreeing with the fact....... that I am smart and wonderful... we will let that stand!!
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I agree with ALL your disagreeing... except for disagreeing with the fact....... that I am smart and wonderful... we will let that stand!!
(I think the Lord would agree with us, too!
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